Re: Bro. Ronnie's view on changing times- Digest Number 1354
- Dear Brother CJ,
Thanks for your reply.
Your question was :
My question is "if the subject (HGs) you talk about and submit
yourself is going or doing against the hierachy of our chuch, what
will you do to them? Are you not bound to defend your faith? If you
talk and practice only about submission in such a situation, who will
defend the faith (here the Orthodoxy)? It is a fact that today's
Syrian Orthodox Church is a ramnant. For centuries of draining from
the faithfuls put this Oldest Church established in AD 37 still a
minute percentage in the whole world of Christiandom.
I think you need to explain to me what is the faith you are talking
about. Is it our faith as a believer in Christ. Or is it our faith as
a believer in a system established by men. What is important to
you ?? Christ or the system ??
Also, you need to explain to me what is your meaning of a Church. For
me church is the body of Christ through which a sinner like me gets
salvation. So, salvation is the product or fruit of faith.
Syrian Christian orthodoxy or Indian Christian Orthodoxy is a "
system " consisting of a heirarchy, liturgy and traditioins made by
men to achieve salvation which is the fruit of faith. As you said
there are other systems as well like the Roman Catholics and
Protesants, who follows similar systems.
Systems changes with circumstnces. Thats why I asked in my last
mail why the Holy Syrian Christians like you adopted a " Minnu" or
thalikettu in the middle of your Marriage sacrament. Is it something
established by Abraham, Issac or Jacob.
Systems evolves in a church. No system is perfect. Core faith as
Jesus christ as son of God remains. Everything else changes and one
that changes or evolves cannot be part of our faith.
System in itself does not produce results. We had a Catholicate
system running in Persia. It met its extinction. We have a Syrian
Christian system in the Anthiocan church. It cannot get too many
people to christianity in Syria. And may reach its extinction sooner
or later. The one system working now and got people to christianity
is the Indian system. People usually follow and trust a system which
is working. That's why our Indian fathers are trying to develop a
system which is Indian indigenous System.
I wont say it is a faith, it is a system which might be changed
again. Say in another hundreds of years the Indian Christians will
face their extinction and the Orthodox church will be replanted to
North America as American orthodox Church with a St. Thomas Lineage.
Is it bad ?? I don't think so. That's the way churches evolve. That's
the way Persian Catholicate became Maphrianate, then to Syrian and
re-established as Catholicate in India and so on.
I can understand your sympathy to the Syrian Church and your endavour
to prop it up as long as you can. I too would have liked to do that
in return for the good thing they gave us in the past. But to me the
Syrian church looks totally undemocratic. Even the Roman Catholic
church elect their Pope with participation of all the ArchBishops
around the world and has chance for every archbishop to become the
Pope. How can a church with a chance for only some races to become
the Patriarch be democratic and Christian. Freedom and liberty is
the most precious value any one should cherish. This is what God gave
to Adam and Eve. I know that people in your faction are not keen on
that freedom. But, I am concerned about you CJ and your other
colleagues. That's why I am writing again and again.
I still wish you remain as a separate church , but independent from
And one more advice : Subit to the system by all means, but dont put
your faith on a system which is evolving. It is not the system which
is going to save us. It is the body of christ which is goiing to save
ID # 2304
- "All those people for whom the heavens rejoiced because they repented on earth will never see any grief or passion in that place. While those for whom the heavens did not rejoice because they did not repent on earth, will never enjoy any joy or rest. Those who will have their joy on earth will never have any joy or rest from this time on. You have heard that ‘Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted’, and also those who did not rejoice on earth will rejoice in heaven. You have also heard, ‘Woe to you who are laughing now because you will cry and grieve.’ This is the time in which the weak become strong; and those who are not strong will say, ‘I am strong when they give their hearts to the written commandments’. As the prophets had said, ‘Many are those whose bodies weakened because of their adultery, and their hearts will become weak as well’. The Bible described them by saying, ‘He will be destroyed by the uncleanness of himself’. While those who are bravely striving and struggling were described by the saying, ‘Hurry and reconcile yourself as a friend of God and undefiled performer who performs the word of truth.’"St. Shenouda the Archimandrite, A Homily said in the First Hour of Tuesday of the Holy Pascha.-----------------------------------------------"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief." 1 Timothy 1:15-----------------------------------------------The Bible reading for the 11th of Abib, July 18, is:4 And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! 6 Are not five sparrows sold for two copper coins? And not one of them is forgotten before God. 7 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. 8 Also I say to you, whoever confesses Me before men, him the Son of Man also will confess before the angels of God. 9 But he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God. 10 And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. 11 Now when they bring you to the synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how or what you should answer, or what you should say. 12 For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say. (Luke 12:4-12)Martyrdom of Sts. John and Simon, his cousin.Departure of St. Isaiah, the hermit.The Bible reading for the 12th of Abib, July 19, is: Luke 11:53-12:12Commemoration of Archangel Michael.Martyrdom of St. Abba Hour El-Siriakousy.-----------------------------------------------Prayer Requests:If you have an update on a prayer request, please let me know.Please remember the following in your prayers:The families of the recently Crowned Martyrs in Egypt and everywhere. May God grant them strength and peace.The Naroz family - Peace and Comfort to deal with their lossJessenia W - Bipolar depression.Urgent: Amal - Cancer.Urgent: Magda - Cancer.Tony H. - Cancer.Anthony Cacho - Recovery from heart surgery on 6/1. Thank God, Anthony is doing much better and is back to work.F - Unable to walk for 3 months with a leg infectionC's uncle - Stage 4 cancer.Sam - Drugs Addiction.B.E.Hannah - Battling epilepsy, depression and anxiety.Erice - Young girl with a troubled family life and suicidal thoughts.Yaga - Cancer.Robert - Infant with a rare kidney disease.Faith and family - Healing and guidanceRicardo F. - Health issuesThomas, Matthew, Irene and Ayman M.Evelyn - Cancer5 years old Luke - Health issuesDaoud - Peace.Edith D.The unity of the Churches and all Christians.Egypt and the Christians in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Pakistan. "Blessed is Egypt My people." Isaiah 19:25Please pray for the peace of the world.Please remember me in your prayers."casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7