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Reply to Fr. Eapen & Mr. Rajan Varghese

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  • Jacob Joshua
    Dears in Christ, I enclose herewith two docs. with a request to kindly post the same in your mailing list so that it reach to the maximum hands. These are
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 22, 2002
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      Dears in Christ,

      I enclose herewith two docs. with a request to kindly post the same in
      your mailing list so that it reach to the maximum hands. These are replies
      to the writers in Indian Orthodox Internet Forum members. The enclosures
      are self-explanatory.

      <<Fr Eapen.doc>> <<Rajan Varghese.doc>>

      Another important thing is that St.Gregorious Church, Toronto, Canada has
      filed an Application in the Supreme Court of India, wherein they have
      given an affidavit regarding fraud election in their Church. One Mr. Matt
      Mathews has attended the Parumala Meeting on their behalf and he has now
      become an Association Member also. Actually, no election was held in the
      Toronto Church and nobody was elected to represent them at Parumala. It
      is a clear case of manipulation done by the Orthodox faction. We now
      understand that there are many churches in the orthodox faction where no
      proper election was held for the Malankara Association Meeting. Such
      cases should immediately be brought to the knowledge of our Advocate Mr. P
      J Philip (Te.No.0484-314418, 315920 Mobile 9846031122(Kochi)
      9810690717(New Delhi)
      e-mail: pmannully@....
      Your prayerful co-operation is solicited to trace out such illegalities
      committed by the Orthodox Faction to make our case strong in the Supreme
      Court on 29.4.02.
      With prayers
      Jacob V Joshua (New Delhi)
      e-mail: jacobvjoshua@...

      ps: If you could forward me your mailing list, it will help me to avoid
      repetitions.My last article (Mor Nicholovos) was received by many people on
      several times. I would like this should not happen this time.
      Thanks
    • rgphilipos
      Hi all, Let me first introduce myself. I was born to Jacobite parents and attend the church whenever I am in Kerala. However, I do not know much of the
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 22, 2002
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        Hi all,

        Let me first introduce myself. I was born to Jacobite parents and
        attend the church whenever I am in Kerala. However, I do not know
        much of the doctrines of our church and I would love to know more.
        Hence, I subscribed to this group.

        I had many questions, one among them being child baptism and how it
        is done in the Jacobite church.

        I dont see any place in the Bible where child baptism is advocated.
        Instead, in the Acts of the Apostles, baptism is done for an adult
        and only after that person has believed in Christ. As a child, we do
        not have any such knowledge. At the end of Mathew, Christ says 'go
        and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them...'. I would
        interpret this as first becoming disciples and then getting baptized.

        Is child baptism a form of dedication ceremony/blessing for the child
        or is it the water baptism as mentioned in the Acts?

        I am just trying to understand what the church doctrine is and follow
        what the Bible says in all matters. I have been thinking about this
        for quite a while and I feel that baptism is instead a sign of
        obedience to God after believing in Christ. This can only happen when
        you are an adult or at a stage that you can think of such matters.
      • MalankaraVoice.cjb.net
        Here is enclosed an open letter from Jacob V Joshua, New Delhi to one Fr.Eapen, a member of Methran Kakshi. Through this, Joshua is giving a clear idea on
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 22, 2002
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          Here is enclosed an open letter from Jacob V Joshua, New Delhi to one Fr.Eapen, a member of Methran Kakshi.   Through this, Joshua is giving a clear idea on the latest developments in the Malankara Church.

          Attached Copy of the Letter

           

                                                                                                                                  March 22, 2002

          Dear Rev. Fr. Eapen (Mysore)

           

          Thank you very much for your response. I read with interest what you have written about the Malankara Association in IOIF.  Firstly, I request you and others who disagree with me, to read completely, at least a sentence to understand the contents. Don't behave like Protestants, whose habit is to take piece(s) of sentence to establish their arguments. Don’t make any judgment before reading full book. Don’t jump into conclusions. Treat this letter in good spirit and as a request; don't consider it as a sermon.

           

          Para 142(4) of the 1995 Judgement clearly states that H.H Patriarch of Antioch remains the Supreme Head of the Church and His Holiness is spiritually superior to the Catholicos. The Patriarch and Catholicos are not equals. H.H. Patriarch never wanted any temporal powers over the Malankara Church’ properties nor expressed desire for it. The parishioners own the Parish Church. Temporal powers of the Parish Churches are vested on its members, not the Malankara Metropolitan.  Of course, the spiritual powers are with the clergy. The Catholicate revived and reestablished in 1912 was improper.  It was a manipulated affair organized by Vattaseril Thirumeni. ("Shall the throne of iniquity, which devises evil by law, have fellowship with You?" Psalms 94:20). Even Vattaseril Thirumeni realized the discrepancy/drawback and wanted the real Patriarch to endorse/canonize it. Kindly read the Church History written by the early Holy Fathers of the Church or the impartial historians, not the distorted versions published by Orthodox faction recently (during the dispute in the Church) to establish their newly found ideas/stories. The Patriarch agreed for the Catholicate in 1964 and had to approve the 1912 installation because H.H the Patriarch wanted peace in the Malankara Church at any cost.

           

          There were no mutually agreed terms for conducting the Malankara Association except the agreement for appointment of an Observer. Thereafter it was his responsibility to ensure free and fair elections. Ask your consciousness whether the actions and conduct of the Association have been adhered to as per the Court Order by anybody? If the association meeting is held in a free and fair manner, then only the Court verdict will bind on both factions. When it was clearly indicative that free & fair elections as per the Supreme Court Order could not take place, the Jacobite faction withdrew from the one-sided meeting at Parumala in the initial stages itself.

           

          The Parumala and Puthenkurissu meetings enabled opening a new chapter of the century old conflict in the Church due to unending and greedy desire for the properties.  The clergy should be kept away from the temporal powers. If so, there shall never be any conflict or litigation in the Church. The super importance given to the constitution by the Orthodox faction is unwanted and unnecessary and it caused the root of conflicts and litigation.  If the Holy Spirit prevails in the Church and the presence of God is felt, no constitution is required.  Until and unless the so-called constitution is approved by a Combined Association meeting of both the factions and the necessary amendments as directed by the Supreme Court are carried out in a proper way, the Jacobite faction can not agree to the said constitution.  Why the Catholicos faction refers to the 1934 constitution whenever asked about their relationship with the Patriarchate?  Was there any constitution when the relationship with Antioch started or the Antiochean Fathers sacrificed their lives for the Malankara Church? The Holy Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ, His disciples, martyrs, traditions and the Canons made in the early centuries are nothing in front of a constitution, which was unilaterally prepared by the Orthodox faction in 1934. The Indian Orthodox Church functions on a 20th century made constitution.  Is there anything wrong to say that the Indian Orthodox Church based only on the 1934 constitution is a 20th century Church started by the Vattaseril Thirumeni (1912) and half a century later declared/ publicized by the Vattakunnel Thirumeni (Marthoma Mathews-I).

           

          Point No.11 is a wrong statement.  It was never expected from a priest.  There are more than 140 cases against Mor Dianysious Thomas filed by the Orthodox faction with the sole purpose of getting control over Church properties. Nobody wants to win over the valuable souls.  Jesus asked disciples, "Bring some of the fish which you have just caught" (John 21:10) He didn't ask for the boats or the nets they caught.  If our early fathers opted for accumulation of properties instead of gospel proclamation, there would have been no Church today. The veiled allegations leveled against Mor Dionysios do not qualify for any answers. Please be kind enough and patience to have a look on your Bishops.  Are they holy enough to lead the Church? What is their mission? Why the bishops who crossed over to Indian Sabha look very frightened and desperate? Why do they look gloomy? Are they frightened with their present circumstances and situation or do they have some guilty consciousness? I fully believe, hope and pray that a time will come when everything will be cleared and the truth will win over everything. 

           

           

          -2-

          Do you think that the timing of the Parumala meeting was appropriate? Many Orthodox Parishes outside Kerala could not conduct Holy Mass on Sundays preceding and succeeding March 20th. Also majority of the Churches could not celebrate the 40th day of the lent. During the lent period such a controversial and illegal meeting took place in the guise of establishing peace in the Church. The end-result was not only contrary but also helped to break the Body of Christ.  May be it was conducted on the expected lines and also achieved the expected results.  Malankara Association is more important than observing the Lent/Fasting!

          The Parumala and Puthenkurissu meetings were one-sided and the Observer, who was supposed to ensure free and fair election, deliberately took side with one faction from the very beginning. He left everything to the dictates and desire of Catholicos faction to act and manipulate on their own. The ten votes cast against Marthoma Mathews-II and the abstention votes seems to be stage-managed and deliberate attempt to show that both the factions attended the meeting. From many parishes of Northern Kerala Dioceses there were two or three lists prepared. One-third of the parishes was not supposed to attend this meeting if you look into the Supreme Court judgement(cut off date 1.1.71). When the Manarcadu Church is totally against the partisan meeting at Parumala and there was no election held, how a list from Manarcadu also appeared? Everybody knows about the undemocratic and dictatorial elections of Indian Orthodox Diocese of America and the objections raised thereafter by the priests & laity.

           

          HG Thomas Mar Dianysious is not a self-made Catholicos designate. H.G never requested the Court to remove the Observer or appoint another person.  H.G never said that the Patriarch of Antioch to be the supreme head of the Church with full powers ignoring the Court. H.G never entered any Church ignoring law and order. At the same time, H.G never allowed the Orthodox faction to enter the Jacobite Churches by force or by ignoring law and order. H.G can not remain as a silent spectator when the Church and  Faith is attacked by internal and external forces. H.G must have talked emotionally and harshly to stop the atrocities, injustice and unjustified actions of the Orthodox leaders to capture the Jacobite Churches.  If there were no such persons in the history, no Church would have been there. The Holy Bible witnesses how Moses, Abraham, Jacob, David, Elijah, Issaiah, John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, St. Stephen, St. Peter, St. Paul, St. Thomas, etc., faced injustice and raised their voices in harsh words. There should not be any compromise on spiritual/faith matters. H.G Thomas Mor Dianysious was never uncompromising, but ready to sacrifice for the sheep as a good shepherd.

           

          As the Jacobite faction thought everything will proceed impartially and the Observer will take care of holding the election in a free and fair manner and also due to the keen interest of the Jacobite faction to put an end to the litigation and to solve other problems in the Church, the amount of Rs.50,000/- was deposited with good intentions.  Is it not enough to show that the Jacobite faction or Mor Dianysious was very much interested in the restoration of peace in the Church?  But the actions of the Observer in connivance with some business groups/Orthodox leaders compelled the Jacobite faction to withdraw from the one-sided meeting and the election process. Don't say that Mor Dianysious is misleading the people. The masses are behind this faithful, loyal, courageous and bold Metropolitan, who is always ready to sacrifice everything for peace and faith. Being a priest, you should be ashamed of misleading the people by making false allegations against Mor Dianysious Thomas. H.G never tried to become next Catholicos and there is no contradiction between what he says and what he does.  His written statement in this regard is with Shri Oommen Chandy and the Kerala Govt. Let them reveal the truth.

           

          The Patriarch faction had to walk out of the first meeting called by the Observer because the Observer was not willing to listen to the Jacobite faction as if he was pre-determined to act in a partisan way. It looked like he was playing in the hands of somebody or bought by somebody. Complaint was filed in the Supreme Court against the Observer as he was not impartial and was not doing his duties as an impartial observer. Dear Rev. Father, kindly ask your leadership that who started and still enjoys this exercise of continuous litigation in the Church and that what they gained spiritually. Don't try to declare day as night just by closing the eyes. The Orthodox Church is managed and run by business groups due to some dubious reasons & unavoidable circumstances. If anybody wants to sail with the Orthodox faction let him or her goes happily and leaves alone the Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church for its destiny. 

           

          You must know that in the 1970s when the present split occurred, there was not a single Metropolitan to support the Jacobite faithful. The two Metropolitans took a little bit of time to come out openly as they wanted to avoid a split in the Church. If we cannot go together why don't we separate peacefully and

           

          -3-

          become true Christians and witnesses of our Lord and Savior. For that, all the Church cases should be withdrawn. The Orthodox leadership can not agree to this suggestion. They can't think of a Church without properties.  The tendency of the majority Bishops (both sides) to acquire properties in their name should be stopped.  Then only the everlasting peace and the Holy Spirit will prevail upon the Church. If there is any Bishop to set this example; he will be the next saint from the Malankara Church after Parumala Thirumeni. Dear Achen, there is no need for the Jacobites to establish an independent Church as suggested by you because the Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church is 20 centuries old and there is nothing new to us.  Jacobite faction still continues the same faith, teachings and traditions based on the Holy Bible and the Canon, which the early Fathers were following, without making any deviations.

           

          Further, I would request you to refer my letter to Mor Nicholovos. Most of the points are detailed therein. I am given to understand that few people got it many times, for which I sincerely regret for the repetitions. It was not intentional, may be a miracle of technology. Some people took photocopies and distributed or re-sent it.  A few have ridiculed me. I request them too kindly read the writings on the wall and try to understand the basic faith and teachings of the Church. The history of the Church and the genesis of the Catholicate in Malankara are taught in a distorted manner by the Orthodox faction. To them the arguments made in the Courts and a 20th century-made constitution are the basic principles and theology of their newly created Church. If H.G. Late lamented Daniel Mor Philexinos had been elected as the Catholicos-designate, the second conflict in the Church should not have happened.  H.G Mathews Mor Athanasios (Vattakunnel) was elected with the support of the patriarchal faction members. When the accounts of the Parumala Church was asked, Vattakunnel Thirumeni invented the Throne of St. Thomas in order to divert the attention. The Throne in the Church means, “stream of unbreakable episcopacy starting from the Apostle”.  St.Peter established the Holy Throne of the Church in 37 AD by consecrating Mor Ignatius and Mor Thevodosius as Bishops at Antioch. This stream of episcopacy still continues without any break. Roman Catholic Church and the Universal Syrian Orthodox Church celebrate 22nd February as the Holy Throne Day.  We do consider St. Thomas as Apostle of India and are proud to be called as St. Thomas Christians.  St. Thomas did not consecrate any Bishop.  All the Apostles were under the leadership of St. Peter and also under the directions from the Holy Throne he established at Antioch in the presence of other Apostles. Why do we want a new throne when there is already an undisputed Throne in the Church? (Refer Psalms 94:20) The visible Church is under one Throne.

           

          "Blessed are the peace makers, for they will be called sons of God".  Mere saying of 'peace, peace' will not serve the purpose. For making peace, one has to love, give, respect, forget and act whole-heartedly.  Stop talking about peace, endeavor to make peace. The peace making will not be on the basis of sacrificing the basic principles of Faith. If the Catholicos Marthoma Mathews II could give in writing his allegiance to His Holiness the Patriarch of Antioch & all the East, all the problems would be solved.

           

          All must know that the certified copy of the Court Order dated 28.11.01 was issued on 6.12.01 with two corrections -  (1) In the 1st line of the second paragraph, name of the Church was typed as Marthoma Syrian Orthodox Church, which corrected as Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church. (2) On page 3 paragraph 4 direction (iii) it was typed as Fresh elections shall be called by Moran Mar Baselious Marthoma Mathews-II by issuing necessary Kalpana to Parishes and the Malankara Association will be convened under Article 74 of the 1934 Constitution, as amended. This was corrected as "Fresh elections … Marthoma Mathews-II by name by issuing necessary..… as amended". Both these corrections were certified and signed by Registrar on 4.12.01. The Orthodox faction didn't want to wait for the issuance of the Order or see these corrections, instead preferred to act contrary to the Order. They jumped into the ring and started wrestling without waiting for the referee or the latest guidelines.  If the Indian Orthodox Church want to stand as an independent and national Church like Armenian, Ethiopian, Russian or Greek Orthodox Churches, let them do so. Atleast, they should allow the Jacobite faction also to exist as a brother Church. Now the situation has reached such a stage that the present clergy and laity have become so arrogant and unwilling to compromise even Jesus Christ interferes. God willing, at later days these two factions could be united when the present conflict and litigation will become foregone chapters, and a new generation without hatred, forgetting the past and the bitter experiences, emerges.  Let us all pray for that golden day to happen in the Malankara Syrian Church. I shall be happy to communicate further in case of any clarifications required by anybody who is interested to ensure genuine peace in the Church.

          Yours in Christ,

          Jacob V Joshua, New Delhi

           


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        • Thomas Daniel
          Dear Ones, Here is the latest on little Josh Agosto, as of����Saturday evening:����The MRI scan came out fine! His doctor said that���� Josh has
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 23, 2002
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            Dear Ones,

            Here is the latest on little Josh Agosto, as of�Saturday evening:�The MRI scan came out fine! His doctor said that� Josh has surprised�them and has beaten the odds. They feel strongly
            that he will�survive. At present he is very much at risk for�infection, so they�want to get him out of Intensive Care as soon as�possible in order to�minimize this.

            It is likely that he will never walk again. But he�also pointed to�Josh's consistent ability to surprise them and said�it is certainly�possible that he can recover even that. He will�also have cognitive�and speech problems, but his age and rehabilitation�will eventually�get these things straightened out. So, he will be�faced with severe�limitations, but some of them can be overcome. It�will be at least�6-9 months before they can fully assess his level of� function and
            return him home.

            Saturday night: Josh had taken his first breath on�his own since�being admitted to the hospital and being taken off�the paralyzing�drug!�

            And today (Saturday the 20th) is my Nuno's (Father�Deaacon Stephen's)�birthday! So, may God grant you many, many years!

            Our miracle is happening and may it continue! Thank�you so very very�much for your prayers for my little Godbrother and�his family! Please�continue!

            Hoping to have an update Monday morning.

            Love,

            Fr. Jim



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          • James
            Dear Brothers, Ganesh Balasubramanian is a 14 year old boy studying in 10th std. at the Indian School, Bahrain. He became unconscious 3 days ago and has been
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 23, 2002
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              Dear Brothers,

              Ganesh Balasubramanian is a 14 year old boy studying in 10th std. at the Indian School, Bahrain. He became unconscious 3 days ago and has been diagonised as having tumour in the brain. He is now admitted in the Bahrani Defence Force Hospital and was operated once.
              Request you to uphold him in your prayers.

              with prayers

              James

              Thursday Prayer Fellowship

              Bahrain



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            • Thomas Daniel
              In regards to the poor and the needy? ���� Zechariah 7:8-10 Then the word of the LORD came to Zechariah, saying, Thus says the LORD of hosts: ���� Execute
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 23, 2002
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                In regards to the poor and the needy?
                Zechariah 7:8-10
                Then the word of the LORD came to Zechariah, saying, "Thus says the LORD of hosts:
                'Execute true justice,
                Show mercy and compassion
                Everyone to his brother.
                Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless,
                The alien or the poor.
                Let none of you plan evil in his heart
                Against his brother.'
                Micah 6:8
                He has shown you, O man,what is good;
                And what does the LORD require of you
                But to do justly,
                To love mercy,
                And to walk humbly with your GOD?
                Luke 6:32-38
                "But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the MOST HIGH. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your FATHER also is merciful. "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running
                over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."
                Hosea 4:6
                My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...
                2 Peter 3:18
                But grow in the grace and knowledge of our LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST.
                To HIM be the glory both now and forever
                .
                Amen.


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              • =?iso-8859-1?q?Philip?
                About Infant Baptism etc. Please refer the following link, maintained by St.Ignatius Church, Texas for the concerned matter.
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 23, 2002
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                  About Infant Baptism etc.

                  Please refer the following link, maintained by St.Ignatius Church, Texas for the concerned matter.

                   http://www.stignatious.com/salvation2.htm

                  The article is the reproduced from the book written by Malankara Malpan, Very Rev Kaniamparambil Kurien Cor-episcopa, one of the greatest scholars of the centuary.  The transalation was done by Mr.Paul Philipose.

                  JP

                   

                   

                    rgphilipos@... wrote:

                  Hi all,

                  Let me first introduce myself. I was born to Jacobite parents and
                  attend the church whenever I am in Kerala. However, I do not know
                  much of the doctrines of our church and I would love to know more....
                • DANIEL BABU PAUL
                  please tell his parents that I am putting him on my regular prayer list for the sick. TOTUS TUUS MARIA ... From: James To: OzInterOrthodoxUnity@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 23, 2002
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                    please tell his parents that I am putting him on my regular prayer list for the sick.
                    TOTUS TUUS MARIA
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: James
                    Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:56 PM
                    Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] Pray for - Ganesh - Brain Tumour

                    Dear Brothers,

                    Ganesh Balasubramanian is a 14 year old boy studying in 10th std. at the Indian School, Bahrain. He became unconscious 3 days ago and has been diagonised as having tumour in the brain. He is now admitted in the Bahrani Defence Force Hospital and was operated once.
                    Request you to uphold him in your prayers.

                    with prayers

                    James

                    Thursday Prayer Fellowship

                    Bahrain



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                  • drthomas_joseph
                    Shlomo! May the peace of our Lord abide with all of us. It is rather disturbing to find the upsurge of messages that advocate hatred, harshness, and other
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 24, 2002
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                      Shlomo! May the peace of our Lord abide with all of us.

                      It is rather disturbing to find the upsurge of messages that advocate
                      hatred, harshness, and other unchristian attitudes and actions in
                      defense of the Church. Understandably, our Church is in a crisis and
                      under siege from forces that seek our destruction. These are,
                      however, not new situations for the Church which has survived nearly
                      2000 years of adversity by the strength of its faith in God, strict
                      adherence to the ideals that our Lord taught His children to uphold,
                      and the spiritual discipline of incessant prayer and fasting. The
                      early Church which faced persecution from the Jewish religious
                      authorities as well as the Roman and Persian civil authorities
                      emerged triumphantly by upholding the ideals enshrined in the
                      Gospels. Evil will not overcome evil; as our Lord Himself tells
                      us "all who take the sword will perish by the sword." (Matt. 26:51-
                      53). Our instinct to use words and actions of hatred should be
                      moderated by the knowledge that everyone is judged by his deeds at
                      the day of reckoning. Resorting to words and deeds that do not befit
                      a Christian diminishes our moral standing in the society; the graver
                      consequence is that we deprive ourselves of a confident stand in the
                      presence of our Creator. I recognize the importance of disseminating
                      the facts, but this can be done without the hatred and rancour that
                      does not befit an elect people of God; let the facts speak for
                      themselves.

                      In these days of much anxiety, I implore my brethren in Christ to
                      pray diligently for our Church and its children that we emerge from
                      this crisis stronger and without losing our souls to the devil. Let
                      us resolve not to play into the hands of those who harbor illwill.
                      Let us resist evil with good, strengthening ourselves with prayer and
                      fasting. We may lose material possessions, but if we are steadfast in
                      our faith and our hope and trust in God we have indeed lost nothing.

                      Thomas Joseph, Ph.D.
                      Web Master, Syriac Orthodox Resources
                      (http://sor.cua.edu)
                    • Thomas Daniel
                      Dear forum memebrs ���� This is to inform you that the sudden demise of my niece Ms.Sindhu,w/o.Benz Mammen,Thoompunkal,Mavelikkara and D/O.Mrs.Lillykutty
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 24, 2002
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                        Dear forum memebrs
                        This is to inform you that the sudden demise of my niece Ms.Sindhu,w/o.Benz Mammen,Thoompunkal,Mavelikkara and D/O.Mrs.Lillykutty Thampy & Late Mr.Thampy Oommen, Pazhayaparambil Kandathil, Kattodu, Thiruvalla (D/O.Late Mr.D.Abraham, Karimpanackal Puthenpurayil,Cheppad), which happened on 23rd April.The funeral will be on 26th April at 11 am .
                        Please pray for the soul.
                        Thomas Daniel


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                      • John Joseph
                        Dear Thomas Thanks for the posting. Very appropriate message for Malankara Church John Joseph
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 24, 2002
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                          Dear Thomas

                          Thanks for the posting.
                          Very appropriate message for Malankara Church
                          John Joseph
                        • George Varghese
                          To rgphilipos I request you to read the the malayalam book Sishu Snaanam - Tharkkangalkku Viraamam written by Fr. Sunny Abraham of the Marthoma Church.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 24, 2002
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                            To� rgphilipos

                            I request you to read the the malayalam book� "Sishu Snaanam -� Tharkkangalkku Viraamam"
                            written by Fr. Sunny Abraham of the Marthoma Church.� All your doubts can be cleared.

                            There is n't�� any proof in the bible for and against� child baptism.� That is the truth.

                            George Varhgese/Kuwait

                            "rgphilipos" wrote:

                            Hi all,

                            Let me first introduce myself. I was born to Jacobite parents and
                            attend the church whenever I am in Kerala. However, I do not know
                            much of the doctrines of our church and I would love to know more.
                            Hence, I subscribed to this group.

                            I had many questions, one among them being child baptism and how it
                            is done in the Jacobite church...

                          • thomas_pa1
                            Since this is an open letter, I have few quesions: - Is Indian Orthodox a really bad word? A church can be called by many names. Many innocently use the name
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 24, 2002
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                              Since this is an open letter, I have few quesions:

                              - Is Indian Orthodox a really bad word? A church can be called by many
                              names. Many innocently use the name "Indian Orthodox", especially
                              faithful from other Orthodox churches in the world, to denote
                              Orthodox Christians from India. These Orthodox Christians from
                              poor Orthodox nations also take great pride that there is an Orthodox
                              church in India. They feel great about it - that their faith is
                              growing. Of course, this depends on one's mind set - whether one is
                              more interested in the growth of Orthodox church or lesser wordly
                              problems.

                              - Regarding constitution, there is the ancient Apostolic
                              constitutions. Every church has a constitution to exist in this world.
                              We also need one.

                              Let us drop wordly and silly arguments (throne, constitution,
                              nation/language names etc.) and develop a broader understanding of
                              church of Orthodox faith, unity between churches etc. The Church
                              confessing same faith is one, no division or seperation there.
                              If we reach that realisation, peace will prevail in the Church and in
                              our minds. It is a very simple concept, but very difficult to
                              experience and accept.

                              Malankara church is not the only Orthodox church with internal
                              disputes. Every Orthodox church is facing similar problems, thus
                              inhibiting the growth. Let us make a difference with a simple
                              understanding.

                              Peace to you and to all.

                              -T


                              --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "MalankaraVoice.cjb.net" wrote:
                              > Here is enclosed an open letter from Jacob V Joshua, New Delhi to
                              one Fr.Eapen, a member of Methran Kakshi. Through this, Joshua is
                              giving a clear idea on the latest developments in the Malankara
                              Church.
                            • V Thomas
                              Dear Sir, My condolence to you and the bereaved family.We pray for the departed soul. Regards vmt ... From: Thomas Daniel @indianhosting.com To:
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 24, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dear Sir,
                                My condolence to you and the bereaved family.We pray for the departed soul.
                                Regards
                                vmt
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:56 PM
                                Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] Sudden demise of my niece

                                Dear forum memebrs
                                 
                                This is to inform you that the sudden demise of my niece Ms.Sindhu,w/o.Benz Mammen,Thoompunkal,Mavelikkara and D/O.Mrs.Lillykutty Thampy & Late Mr.Thampy Oommen, Pazhayaparambil Kandathil, Kattodu, Thiruvalla (D/O.Late Mr.D.Abraham, Karimpanackal Puthenpurayil,Cheppad), which happened on 23rd April.The funeral will be on 26th April at 11 am .
                                 
                                Please pray for the soul.
                                 
                                Thomas Daniel
                              • Rajesh Philipos
                                Thank you for repling to my query. I do not read Malayalam (can speak, though) so I might not get the book. I did check the website that I was refered to. It
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 24, 2002
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                                  Thank you for repling to my query.

                                  I do not read Malayalam (can speak, though) so I might not get the book. I
                                  did check the website that I was refered to.

                                  It is clear from the site and from the reply that I got, that there is
                                  nothing in the bible for or against infant baptism. But, if we look at the
                                  Acts, baptism always followed believing in Christ. In Matt 28:19, we first
                                  become disciples and then get baptized. Baptism is always the next step
                                  after you believe in Christ. Why would you baptize an infant apart from
                                  tradition's sake?
                                  Are we not to believe in the Bible alone? Traditions are okay as long as
                                  they dont contradict the Bible.

                                  This again is my humble opinion and I dont want to be picky. More important
                                  is to have a personal relationship with Christ and He will lead us to the
                                  truth in all matters.

                                  Love In Christ,
                                  Rajesh.


                                  >From: Philip?859-1?q?Philip?
                                  >Reply-To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
                                  >To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] Baptism.
                                  >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:16:39 +0100 (BST)
                                  >
                                  >About Infant Baptism etc.
                                  >Please refer the following link, maintained by St.Ignatius Church, Texas
                                  >for the concerned matter.
                                  > http://www.stignatious.com/salvation2.htm
                                  >The article is the reproduced from the book written by Malankara Malpan,
                                  >Very Rev Kaniamparambil Kurien Cor-episcopa, one of the greatest scholars
                                  >of the centuary.....
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