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RE: [SOCM-FORUM] FW: Noble cause

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  • Paolo Guanco
    Hi, I greatly appreciate your respect towards my church and my patriarch. As we all know, the relations between the catholic Church and several eastern
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 8, 2002
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      Hi,
       
      I greatly appreciate your respect towards my church and my patriarch. As we all know, the relations between the catholic Church and several eastern churches are warming up. In the Oriental Churches, the Assyrian Church and the Armenian Church are enjoying good relations with Rome, So with the Greek Orthodox Church in the west. As relations grow better, may I ask you in the Syrian Church of your opinion on this matter and the issue of eventual reunion with Rome. How do most of  your church members feel towards the "Catholic Communion" in general (including Syrian, Malabar and Chaldean Catholics) and to the Roman (Latin) Catholic Church in particular?
       
      Paolo
    • thomas_pa1
      Orthodox Faith can be read here: Fr. Markos: http://www.studentgroups.ucla.edu/coptic/writings/frmarkosbook/suprema cy2.html - Thomas ... patriarch. As we ...
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 9, 2002
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        Orthodox Faith can be read here:

        Fr. Markos:
        http://www.studentgroups.ucla.edu/coptic/writings/frmarkosbook/suprema
        cy2.html


        - Thomas


        --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Paolo Guanco" <pmguanco@p...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I greatly appreciate your respect towards my church and my
        patriarch. As we
        > all know, the relations between the catholic Church and several
        eastern
        > churches are warming up. In the Oriental Churches, the Assyrian
        Church and
        > the Armenian Church are enjoying good relations with Rome, So with
        the Greek
        > Orthodox Church in the west. As relations grow better, may I ask you
        in the
        > Syrian Church of your opinion on this matter and the issue of
        eventual
        > reunion with Rome. How do most of your church members feel towards
        the
        > "Catholic Communion" in general (including Syrian, Malabar and
        Chaldean
        > Catholics) and to the Roman (Latin) Catholic Church in particular?
        >
        > Paolo
      • Paolo Guanco
        Dear brother in St. Peter, I will make it clear to you my dear Syrian brothers, I am not advocating Roman supremacy. In truth, I abhor the way most Latin
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 9, 2002
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          Dear brother in St. Peter,
           
          I will make it clear to you my dear Syrian brothers, I am not advocating Roman supremacy. In truth, I abhor the way most Latin catholics treat easterners  as inferior to latins. The Jesuits in the past  are fanatical to the point of believing that the only valid form of Christianity is the Latin type. But they are not the most fanatic, there were the Dominicans of the Inquisition who did more horrible things to other Christians.  There are still many Roman Catholics who think this way and I have been striving to change this way of thinking in line with the Pope's wishes. Healing the wound of the past is a long and difficult task, I appeal to all my Syrian Brothers to help heal the wound.
           
           Within the Catholic communion, there has been a problem of Rome controlling every aspect in the affairs of the supposedly Sui Iuris eastern catholic churches. I had always been an advocate of greater autonomy of eastern churches from Rome.
           
           
          With regards to the Syrian Orthodox Church, reunion might not be the right word. I used a bad choice of words, what I really mean is in the line of full communion between the two churches. In your opinion as a Syrian Orthodox, what is the best setup for the restoration of full communion between our two churches?
           
           
          Paolo
           -----Original Message-----
          From: V Thomas [mailto:V Thomas]
          Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 4:53 PM
          To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] FW: Noble cause

          Dear brother
          Our Patriarch HH Zakka I has met  Pope and we have already come
          to many understanding in the matter of  worship etc.....
        • BIBU PHILIP MATTHEW
          From the desk of: B ( Vayaliparambil Pynadath ) BPM BIBU PHILIP MATTHEW M B.E.(CSE) COCHIN-682 024 SOUTH INDIA
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 9, 2002
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            From the desk of:

            B
            ( Vayaliparambil Pynadath ) BPM
            BIBU PHILIP MATTHEW M
            B.E.(CSE)

            COCHIN-682 024
            SOUTH INDIA

            email:bibuphilipmathew@...
            :hellobibu@...
            ______________________________________________

            Dear Mr.Paolo

            It is a good thing that ecumenical discussions are progressing and
            different churches are coming closer , or having mutual understanding.

            By eventual reunion with Rome,if you mean to say both Syrian church and
            catholic church should be under one Patriarch,I (we) can NEVER EVER accept
            that ,it is absolutely OUT OF QUESTION.Syrians are recognising Pope only as
            Patriarch of West and can never accept Pope as Patriarch of East.In the same
            way, we are not interested in making you accept Syrian Patriarch as
            Patriarch of West.

            Four Patriarchs' for four quarters of the Globe.When all the four come
            together the Church is complete, not one single Patriarch for entire church.

            More over we have not gone away, we stand where we are,so reunion term does
            not match in our case.In fact you went away, for St.Peter established only
            1 Throne in Antioch and not in Rome.

            Why dont you think the other way eventual reunion with Holy Throne of Antioch ?

            We Syrians can never digest having both spiritual and temporal power together.
            We believe Patriarchs' should have no temporal power.

            if you mean by reunion , Syrians under Vatican, then i can only say that
            catholic church should SURRENDER and overcome its COLONIAL AMBITIONS to rule
            over entire world and not repeat the sins any longer like in past.

            I think(not sure) Pope and Patriarch have signed treaty of intermarriages
            in church , and acceptance of communion from other church in the absence
            (non availability) of priest one's native church.If such a treaty is in
            force we will honour it , otherwise NO.

            Another thing is that the priesthood of Antioch is A judo-Christian origin
            with clean hands, without any trace of sin or corruption,so we will honour
            that forever.

            Personally I prefer only a syrian Orthodox communion.

            Earlier , we had taken oath not to have any dealings with Rome,by forgiveness
            means we will respect you and help you as christians but not to surrender
            to your church or Pope.It only means "We accept Pope,now(after forgiveness by
            HH.Patriarch.Zakka I) as Patriarch of West ONLY but not and NEVER of East.

            Further opinion about communion in particular I refer to other experts in forum.
            regards,
            BPM

            On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 04:10:12 Paolo Guanco wrote:
            >
            >Hi,
            >
            >I greatly appreciate your respect towards my church and my patriarch. As we
            >all know, the relations between the catholic Church and several eastern
            >churches are warming up....
          • dipu george
            shlomo , it seems paulo is not aware of the first three synods . or are we seeing the inner designs of paulo in this matter. perhaps we at soc forum should
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 9, 2002
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              shlomo ,

              it seems paulo is not aware of the first three synods .

              or are we seeing the inner� designs of paulo in this matter.

              perhaps we at soc forum should educate paulo regarding the antiquity and supremacy of our patriach in christendom.

              the roman catholic church has itself acknowledged the antiquity of the syrian orthodx church� in its calendar .so where does the reunion UNDER� the roman pope lie?????

              as�� long as the� roman catholic church doesnt revret back to the henophysite view of the trinity� i doubt whether such reunion( perhaps another universal synod could be held then) is ever possible.

              the roman pope has never apologised for the division of the malankara church also nor for the infamous inquisitions at goa� so far.

              though we respect the roman pope� , paulo please keep in mind that our patriach is equal in supremacy along with the coptic pope� with the roman pope� because we three belong to the churches founded by st peter himself .

              i suggest u read the drafts of the three synods held at nicea , constantinople and ephesus before writing such crap

              aloho ahmuch

              dipu george

              "V Thomas"@... wrote:

              Dear brother
              Our Patriarch HH Zakka I has met� Pope and we have already come
              to many understanding in the matter of �worship etc.They have made
              a joint communique. We leave such eccleasiastical matters with
              Patriarchs.
              Unlike in middle east we were persecuted by Jesuits and the Portugese
              govt� The Roman catholic church was seperated� from us, by these
              Jesuit fanatics......
            • William John
              Does there have to be a divide between belief in evolution and belief in God? It would seem to me that God could have CREATED the world and humanity through
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 9, 2002
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                Does there have to be a divide between belief in evolution and belief in
                God?
                It would seem to me that God could have CREATED the world and humanity
                through EVOLUTION.

                Willy

                -----Original Message-----
                From: JERIL THOMAS


                >An atheist was taking a walk through the woods,
                >admiring all that the accident of evolution had
                >created.
                >
                >"What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What
                >beautiful animals!" he said to himself.
              • V Thomas
                Dear sir, As per evolution it took billions of years for things ,that we see around, to happen.All bible years togetheris
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 10, 2002
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                  Dear sir,
                  As per evolution it took billions of years for things ,that we see around,
                  to happen.All bible years togetheris <6000.
                  Hence we have to accept any one.
                  Regards
                  vmt
                • =?iso-8859-1?q?Humble=20Serva
                  Mr.Paolo: We will honour ONLY HH.Partiarch of Antioch and All the East as our Supreme head, no matter how many confessions you do,in fact you must confess if
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 10, 2002
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                    Mr.Paolo:

                    We will honour ONLY HH.Partiarch of Antioch and All the
                    East as our Supreme head, no matter how many
                    confessions you do,in fact you must confess if you
                    want to be with God, for that sake u confess,dont
                    confess to please us and for further consolidation of
                    power by this cheap act.

                    In fact catholic church had always created grear dishonour
                    to christianity by its selfishness, corruption and love fo all the
                    materialistic and worldly pleasures.You can never
                    compare with Syrian church.if Patriarch Zakka I has
                    forgiven pope it is his mercy.

                    WE WILL ONLY ACCEPT HH.PATRIARCH OF ANTIOCH AND ALL
                    THE EAST AS OUR SUPREME SPIRITUAL HEAD ,we dont mind
                    having good understanding with our church . But NEVER
                    PAPAL-SUPREMACY.

                    =====
                    A Humble Servant of Jesus Christ.Son of Jehova,God of Israel

                    A knight of the Order of Jacob Baradeus for empowering Jacobites
                    under Holy Throne of Antioch, my mission.
                  • Babu Kurian
                    Cant we the Syrian Christians (If I am wrong, please excuse me, because the non Christians calling us Christians . May be they are wrong.) wait until next
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 10, 2002
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                      Cant we the Syrian Christians (If I am wrong, please excuse me, because
                      the non Christians calling us "Christians". May be they are wrong.) wait
                      until next April to crucify the Jesus Christ.

                      I like to express my thanks to the priesthood for the new system adopted
                      in the Universal church. I think we should abolish the Holy Synod now.
                      We do not need that drama for the adoption of the new systems in our litergy
                      or spiritual matters.

                      Keep it up

                      A Christian by mistake called by the non-Christians.
                      Babu Kurian


                      --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Deepika.com" <webmaster@d...> wrote:
                      > <http://www.deepika.com>
                      > The following news items from Deepika.com are forwarded to you from
                      > email id: daniel_reji@h...
                      > Breaking News
                      > Monday, April 08, 2002 05:43:26 PM IST
                      >
                      >
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                      > JacobsonSoft <http://www.jacobsonsoft.com>
                    • PAUL POTHEN
                      About the news in Deepika on the Piravom Palli issue, there was a slight exaggeration about the whole event and this may have created some confusion among the
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 10, 2002
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                        About the news in Deepika on the Piravom Palli issue, there was a slight exaggeration about the whole event and this may have created some confusion among the readers.   So here i would like to present the facts that had happened there on that day.

                         

                        Actually it was only Fr.Elias, appointed as the alternate Priest by the diocesan Metropolitan (Catholicos-designate Mor Divanyosious Thirumeni) a few months back, celebrated the holy Qurbana on that particular day.   Though the other Achen initially tried to create trouble on that particular day by obstructing Fr.Elias, he had to finally accept the decision of the local government authorities, which they had taken after consultation with the Parishioners.  Since a consensus was reached only in the last minute, this Achen was also present in the Madbaha, while Fr. Elias celebrated Qurbana. (Remember if two priests had then celebrated the Services simultaneously in the same Madbaha, as mentioned in the daily, then there would have been a serious trouble, which the police force under no circumstances would have allowed to continue).

                         

                        In the Piravom Valiya Palli, the Patriarch faction has strength of more than 90 % and this fact was clearly established two years back in 2000 with the Church committee election held under the supervision of the High Court nominees.  Dissatisfied on the turn of events, Methran Kakshi submitted a petition in the Supreme Court, stating that only the parishioners supporting them (5 %) have the right to vote in the election.  But they themselves were forced to withdraw the case following some remarks from SC, which appears to be unfavourable for them in other Church cases if they continue with this one.  Thus after this election, the Jacobite Syrian Christians got the full administrative authority of the church.  

                         

                        The particular Priest, who tried to create troubles by not allowing Fr.Elias to celebrate the Holy Services on last Sunday, is one of the Parish Priests from earlier period.   He created troubles with the support of Muvattupuzha Athanasius Methran who switched over to the Kottayam Orthodox faction in 1996.   Though the Jacobites forms the majority (90 %), they were actually suppressing their sentiments for many years now, in order to avoid any troubles, which may lead to the permanent closure of this ancient church, just as that happened before.   Exploiting this peculiar situation, both the Athanasius supporters & Sevarious supporters of Kottayam Orthodox group (total 5 %) never allowed Fr.Elias who was appointed as the Chief Priest from the Jacobite side to celebrate the Holy Qurbono.   To avoid any confrontation with the dissident section, the Jacobites tried their maximum to remain silent and waited for a consensus on the matter. 

                         

                        Only a week before, did Fr.Elias got the approval of all and accordingly he was to celebrate the Holy Services without any problems.    But the situations become worse after a last minute visit of Muvattupuzha Athanasius of Kottayam Orthodox group to the concerned Priest who was forced to lead the troubles.  Everybody in the area knows, who is behind all these, it is Athanasius Methran & Devolokom leadership.  It was after studying all these facts that the local govt. authorities finally approved Fr.Elias  (who was appointed by Catholicos-designate Mor Divanyosios Thirumeni) to celebrate the Holy Qurbono,  Orelse the Govt. authorities never would have supported Fr. Elias to celebrate the Holy Services.

                         

                        So my advice to all in these hours of crisis is to try to know more about the facts before coming into any conclusions.  There are many who are trying to spread false rumours to tarnish the Syrian Christian community & our bishops.  Their sole aim is to destroy the Syrian Church so that the Kottayam leadership can have the full authority of the Malankara Church.  So be careful of all the false propagandas.

                         

                          Babu@..., UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:

                        Cant we the Syrian Christians (If I am wrong, please excuse me, because



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