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Re: [SOCM-FORUM] FW: Noble cause

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  • BIBU PHILIP MATTHEW
    From the desk of: B ( Vayaliparambil Pynadath ) BPM BIBU PHILIP MATTHEW M B.E.(CSE) COCHIN-682 024 SOUTH INDIA
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 7, 2002
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      From the desk of:

      B
      ( Vayaliparambil Pynadath ) BPM
      BIBU PHILIP MATTHEW M
      B.E.(CSE)

      COCHIN-682 024
      SOUTH INDIA

      email:bibuphilipmathew@...
      :hellobibu@...

      ______________________________________________
      Dear Paolo,

      I join HH.Patriarch Zakka I of Antioch in forgiving you.
      Lets forget past.God bless us.

      regrds,
      BIbu Philip mathew

      On Fri, 5 Apr 2002 02:08:01 Paolo wrote:
      >Dear Bibu Philip,
      >
      >Thank you for welcoming me as a brother through St. Peter. I
      >received your private mail about the history of the SOC. I know
      >very well the sins and injustices committed by the members of
      >the Catholic Church to our eastern brethren in the past.
    • Paolo Guanco
      Hi, I greatly appreciate your respect towards my church and my patriarch. As we all know, the relations between the catholic Church and several eastern
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 8, 2002
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        Hi,
         
        I greatly appreciate your respect towards my church and my patriarch. As we all know, the relations between the catholic Church and several eastern churches are warming up. In the Oriental Churches, the Assyrian Church and the Armenian Church are enjoying good relations with Rome, So with the Greek Orthodox Church in the west. As relations grow better, may I ask you in the Syrian Church of your opinion on this matter and the issue of eventual reunion with Rome. How do most of  your church members feel towards the "Catholic Communion" in general (including Syrian, Malabar and Chaldean Catholics) and to the Roman (Latin) Catholic Church in particular?
         
        Paolo
      • thomas_pa1
        Orthodox Faith can be read here: Fr. Markos: http://www.studentgroups.ucla.edu/coptic/writings/frmarkosbook/suprema cy2.html - Thomas ... patriarch. As we ...
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 9, 2002
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          Orthodox Faith can be read here:

          Fr. Markos:
          http://www.studentgroups.ucla.edu/coptic/writings/frmarkosbook/suprema
          cy2.html


          - Thomas


          --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Paolo Guanco" <pmguanco@p...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > I greatly appreciate your respect towards my church and my
          patriarch. As we
          > all know, the relations between the catholic Church and several
          eastern
          > churches are warming up. In the Oriental Churches, the Assyrian
          Church and
          > the Armenian Church are enjoying good relations with Rome, So with
          the Greek
          > Orthodox Church in the west. As relations grow better, may I ask you
          in the
          > Syrian Church of your opinion on this matter and the issue of
          eventual
          > reunion with Rome. How do most of your church members feel towards
          the
          > "Catholic Communion" in general (including Syrian, Malabar and
          Chaldean
          > Catholics) and to the Roman (Latin) Catholic Church in particular?
          >
          > Paolo
        • Paolo Guanco
          Dear brother in St. Peter, I will make it clear to you my dear Syrian brothers, I am not advocating Roman supremacy. In truth, I abhor the way most Latin
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 9, 2002
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            Dear brother in St. Peter,
             
            I will make it clear to you my dear Syrian brothers, I am not advocating Roman supremacy. In truth, I abhor the way most Latin catholics treat easterners  as inferior to latins. The Jesuits in the past  are fanatical to the point of believing that the only valid form of Christianity is the Latin type. But they are not the most fanatic, there were the Dominicans of the Inquisition who did more horrible things to other Christians.  There are still many Roman Catholics who think this way and I have been striving to change this way of thinking in line with the Pope's wishes. Healing the wound of the past is a long and difficult task, I appeal to all my Syrian Brothers to help heal the wound.
             
             Within the Catholic communion, there has been a problem of Rome controlling every aspect in the affairs of the supposedly Sui Iuris eastern catholic churches. I had always been an advocate of greater autonomy of eastern churches from Rome.
             
             
            With regards to the Syrian Orthodox Church, reunion might not be the right word. I used a bad choice of words, what I really mean is in the line of full communion between the two churches. In your opinion as a Syrian Orthodox, what is the best setup for the restoration of full communion between our two churches?
             
             
            Paolo
             -----Original Message-----
            From: V Thomas [mailto:V Thomas]
            Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 4:53 PM
            To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] FW: Noble cause

            Dear brother
            Our Patriarch HH Zakka I has met  Pope and we have already come
            to many understanding in the matter of  worship etc.....
          • BIBU PHILIP MATTHEW
            From the desk of: B ( Vayaliparambil Pynadath ) BPM BIBU PHILIP MATTHEW M B.E.(CSE) COCHIN-682 024 SOUTH INDIA
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 9, 2002
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              From the desk of:

              B
              ( Vayaliparambil Pynadath ) BPM
              BIBU PHILIP MATTHEW M
              B.E.(CSE)

              COCHIN-682 024
              SOUTH INDIA

              email:bibuphilipmathew@...
              :hellobibu@...
              ______________________________________________

              Dear Mr.Paolo

              It is a good thing that ecumenical discussions are progressing and
              different churches are coming closer , or having mutual understanding.

              By eventual reunion with Rome,if you mean to say both Syrian church and
              catholic church should be under one Patriarch,I (we) can NEVER EVER accept
              that ,it is absolutely OUT OF QUESTION.Syrians are recognising Pope only as
              Patriarch of West and can never accept Pope as Patriarch of East.In the same
              way, we are not interested in making you accept Syrian Patriarch as
              Patriarch of West.

              Four Patriarchs' for four quarters of the Globe.When all the four come
              together the Church is complete, not one single Patriarch for entire church.

              More over we have not gone away, we stand where we are,so reunion term does
              not match in our case.In fact you went away, for St.Peter established only
              1 Throne in Antioch and not in Rome.

              Why dont you think the other way eventual reunion with Holy Throne of Antioch ?

              We Syrians can never digest having both spiritual and temporal power together.
              We believe Patriarchs' should have no temporal power.

              if you mean by reunion , Syrians under Vatican, then i can only say that
              catholic church should SURRENDER and overcome its COLONIAL AMBITIONS to rule
              over entire world and not repeat the sins any longer like in past.

              I think(not sure) Pope and Patriarch have signed treaty of intermarriages
              in church , and acceptance of communion from other church in the absence
              (non availability) of priest one's native church.If such a treaty is in
              force we will honour it , otherwise NO.

              Another thing is that the priesthood of Antioch is A judo-Christian origin
              with clean hands, without any trace of sin or corruption,so we will honour
              that forever.

              Personally I prefer only a syrian Orthodox communion.

              Earlier , we had taken oath not to have any dealings with Rome,by forgiveness
              means we will respect you and help you as christians but not to surrender
              to your church or Pope.It only means "We accept Pope,now(after forgiveness by
              HH.Patriarch.Zakka I) as Patriarch of West ONLY but not and NEVER of East.

              Further opinion about communion in particular I refer to other experts in forum.
              regards,
              BPM

              On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 04:10:12 Paolo Guanco wrote:
              >
              >Hi,
              >
              >I greatly appreciate your respect towards my church and my patriarch. As we
              >all know, the relations between the catholic Church and several eastern
              >churches are warming up....
            • dipu george
              shlomo , it seems paulo is not aware of the first three synods . or are we seeing the inner designs of paulo in this matter. perhaps we at soc forum should
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 9, 2002
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                shlomo ,

                it seems paulo is not aware of the first three synods .

                or are we seeing the inner� designs of paulo in this matter.

                perhaps we at soc forum should educate paulo regarding the antiquity and supremacy of our patriach in christendom.

                the roman catholic church has itself acknowledged the antiquity of the syrian orthodx church� in its calendar .so where does the reunion UNDER� the roman pope lie?????

                as�� long as the� roman catholic church doesnt revret back to the henophysite view of the trinity� i doubt whether such reunion( perhaps another universal synod could be held then) is ever possible.

                the roman pope has never apologised for the division of the malankara church also nor for the infamous inquisitions at goa� so far.

                though we respect the roman pope� , paulo please keep in mind that our patriach is equal in supremacy along with the coptic pope� with the roman pope� because we three belong to the churches founded by st peter himself .

                i suggest u read the drafts of the three synods held at nicea , constantinople and ephesus before writing such crap

                aloho ahmuch

                dipu george

                "V Thomas"@... wrote:

                Dear brother
                Our Patriarch HH Zakka I has met� Pope and we have already come
                to many understanding in the matter of �worship etc.They have made
                a joint communique. We leave such eccleasiastical matters with
                Patriarchs.
                Unlike in middle east we were persecuted by Jesuits and the Portugese
                govt� The Roman catholic church was seperated� from us, by these
                Jesuit fanatics......
              • William John
                Does there have to be a divide between belief in evolution and belief in God? It would seem to me that God could have CREATED the world and humanity through
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 9, 2002
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                  Does there have to be a divide between belief in evolution and belief in
                  God?
                  It would seem to me that God could have CREATED the world and humanity
                  through EVOLUTION.

                  Willy

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: JERIL THOMAS


                  >An atheist was taking a walk through the woods,
                  >admiring all that the accident of evolution had
                  >created.
                  >
                  >"What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What
                  >beautiful animals!" he said to himself.
                • V Thomas
                  Dear sir, As per evolution it took billions of years for things ,that we see around, to happen.All bible years togetheris
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 10, 2002
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                    Dear sir,
                    As per evolution it took billions of years for things ,that we see around,
                    to happen.All bible years togetheris <6000.
                    Hence we have to accept any one.
                    Regards
                    vmt
                  • =?iso-8859-1?q?Humble=20Serva
                    Mr.Paolo: We will honour ONLY HH.Partiarch of Antioch and All the East as our Supreme head, no matter how many confessions you do,in fact you must confess if
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 10, 2002
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                      Mr.Paolo:

                      We will honour ONLY HH.Partiarch of Antioch and All the
                      East as our Supreme head, no matter how many
                      confessions you do,in fact you must confess if you
                      want to be with God, for that sake u confess,dont
                      confess to please us and for further consolidation of
                      power by this cheap act.

                      In fact catholic church had always created grear dishonour
                      to christianity by its selfishness, corruption and love fo all the
                      materialistic and worldly pleasures.You can never
                      compare with Syrian church.if Patriarch Zakka I has
                      forgiven pope it is his mercy.

                      WE WILL ONLY ACCEPT HH.PATRIARCH OF ANTIOCH AND ALL
                      THE EAST AS OUR SUPREME SPIRITUAL HEAD ,we dont mind
                      having good understanding with our church . But NEVER
                      PAPAL-SUPREMACY.

                      =====
                      A Humble Servant of Jesus Christ.Son of Jehova,God of Israel

                      A knight of the Order of Jacob Baradeus for empowering Jacobites
                      under Holy Throne of Antioch, my mission.
                    • Babu Kurian
                      Cant we the Syrian Christians (If I am wrong, please excuse me, because the non Christians calling us Christians . May be they are wrong.) wait until next
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 10, 2002
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                        Cant we the Syrian Christians (If I am wrong, please excuse me, because
                        the non Christians calling us "Christians". May be they are wrong.) wait
                        until next April to crucify the Jesus Christ.

                        I like to express my thanks to the priesthood for the new system adopted
                        in the Universal church. I think we should abolish the Holy Synod now.
                        We do not need that drama for the adoption of the new systems in our litergy
                        or spiritual matters.

                        Keep it up

                        A Christian by mistake called by the non-Christians.
                        Babu Kurian


                        --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Deepika.com" <webmaster@d...> wrote:
                        > <http://www.deepika.com>
                        > The following news items from Deepika.com are forwarded to you from
                        > email id: daniel_reji@h...
                        > Breaking News
                        > Monday, April 08, 2002 05:43:26 PM IST
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > For more news visit www.deepika.com <http://www.deepika.com>
                        > JacobsonSoft <http://www.jacobsonsoft.com>
                      • PAUL POTHEN
                        About the news in Deepika on the Piravom Palli issue, there was a slight exaggeration about the whole event and this may have created some confusion among the
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 10, 2002
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                          About the news in Deepika on the Piravom Palli issue, there was a slight exaggeration about the whole event and this may have created some confusion among the readers.   So here i would like to present the facts that had happened there on that day.

                           

                          Actually it was only Fr.Elias, appointed as the alternate Priest by the diocesan Metropolitan (Catholicos-designate Mor Divanyosious Thirumeni) a few months back, celebrated the holy Qurbana on that particular day.   Though the other Achen initially tried to create trouble on that particular day by obstructing Fr.Elias, he had to finally accept the decision of the local government authorities, which they had taken after consultation with the Parishioners.  Since a consensus was reached only in the last minute, this Achen was also present in the Madbaha, while Fr. Elias celebrated Qurbana. (Remember if two priests had then celebrated the Services simultaneously in the same Madbaha, as mentioned in the daily, then there would have been a serious trouble, which the police force under no circumstances would have allowed to continue).

                           

                          In the Piravom Valiya Palli, the Patriarch faction has strength of more than 90 % and this fact was clearly established two years back in 2000 with the Church committee election held under the supervision of the High Court nominees.  Dissatisfied on the turn of events, Methran Kakshi submitted a petition in the Supreme Court, stating that only the parishioners supporting them (5 %) have the right to vote in the election.  But they themselves were forced to withdraw the case following some remarks from SC, which appears to be unfavourable for them in other Church cases if they continue with this one.  Thus after this election, the Jacobite Syrian Christians got the full administrative authority of the church.  

                           

                          The particular Priest, who tried to create troubles by not allowing Fr.Elias to celebrate the Holy Services on last Sunday, is one of the Parish Priests from earlier period.   He created troubles with the support of Muvattupuzha Athanasius Methran who switched over to the Kottayam Orthodox faction in 1996.   Though the Jacobites forms the majority (90 %), they were actually suppressing their sentiments for many years now, in order to avoid any troubles, which may lead to the permanent closure of this ancient church, just as that happened before.   Exploiting this peculiar situation, both the Athanasius supporters & Sevarious supporters of Kottayam Orthodox group (total 5 %) never allowed Fr.Elias who was appointed as the Chief Priest from the Jacobite side to celebrate the Holy Qurbono.   To avoid any confrontation with the dissident section, the Jacobites tried their maximum to remain silent and waited for a consensus on the matter. 

                           

                          Only a week before, did Fr.Elias got the approval of all and accordingly he was to celebrate the Holy Services without any problems.    But the situations become worse after a last minute visit of Muvattupuzha Athanasius of Kottayam Orthodox group to the concerned Priest who was forced to lead the troubles.  Everybody in the area knows, who is behind all these, it is Athanasius Methran & Devolokom leadership.  It was after studying all these facts that the local govt. authorities finally approved Fr.Elias  (who was appointed by Catholicos-designate Mor Divanyosios Thirumeni) to celebrate the Holy Qurbono,  Orelse the Govt. authorities never would have supported Fr. Elias to celebrate the Holy Services.

                           

                          So my advice to all in these hours of crisis is to try to know more about the facts before coming into any conclusions.  There are many who are trying to spread false rumours to tarnish the Syrian Christian community & our bishops.  Their sole aim is to destroy the Syrian Church so that the Kottayam leadership can have the full authority of the Malankara Church.  So be careful of all the false propagandas.

                           

                            Babu@..., UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:

                          Cant we the Syrian Christians (If I am wrong, please excuse me, because



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