Re: The success of IOC
- Dear varghese, Shaji and all other brothers
What Brother Varghese has written is 100% true. IOC is more planned.
If you read their messages here and in Indian Orthdox Form they focus on
1) There is nothing like excommunication. It is politics.
Do they accept Arius ? I asked one of them ? they said
that excommunication and THIS one are different. But I cant
see two types of ( one to be obeyed and other for fun) any where.
2) They go and tell the faith is same. It is all orthodox. they say.
But such a decision is against ( Matthew 16:13-20) and decisions
of the three councils and a writings a great number of church
fathers in the early centuries.
3) They had the audacity to say that The Fathers that came here
were "intruders". But Aren't they anointed too? In my view
even if Apostles St. Thomas came here and established his OWN
church and throne, still they( bishops from Antioch) are ALSO
anointed people. Other wise Vattaserri thirumeni will not go to East
to get a "legal" bishop hood. People with IOC changed and left
the "faith" entrusted to them. But there was no change to the faith
in Antioch from which Vattaseeril thirumeni got the apostolic
So IOC has filed casees against Paravoor church and kothamangalm
church etc. If IOC get it, what they will do? dig up the tombs and
throw away the remains of the Fathers entmobed there? Since they are
"intruders" it is not good to be kept in Holy Madbha. Right ?
4) The DEEDs of seminary at Aluva and church in Parumala etc
are in the name of Patriarch of Antioch. The hospital at
Kolencheri has our Cathoicos HB Thomas 1's sweat on ALL the
bricks on it. Some ...... have the audacity to get into all this
and disparage the rightful owners of it. What really hurts is
they have the guts to tell the people this is "CHRISTANITY".
Shaji quoted Matthew 5:22-28 ( specially verse 23 - "Therefore, if
you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your
brother has something against you") to show that 'hey one should love
his brother before any sacrifice'. Now do IOC do that ? Did they do
that when they tried to close, destroy or snatch the church's
from the faithful ? Did Shaji remember it? Did any one remember it? No
one. But when our bishop OBEYED the church order many were outraged ,
many posts were posted in Indian Orthodox Forum form touting "non
Christian act" by Orthodox bishop and so on. Many were made "martyrs "
out of this too.
6) One of the IOC bishop's who deflected from JSC( I think this is
Mar Athanatious of Muvattupuzha) approched Reeth to join them. But
they said give all the properties to their "rightful owners" and
they could accept them. IOC dont have at least that courtesy? And
they talk as deciples of Lord Jesus Christ?
More surprising, still people follow them blindly justifying them.
5) According to our church's faith, "church is where there is a
bishop". So bishop is powerful. So I would like not question what he
did. Right or wrong. He has the authority and he did it. I have no
authority to question it or comment on it.
6) Though this split and apparent loss of faith of "the faithfuls"
the chruch has become weak. When some thing is weak there is so many enemies
who will take advantage
of it. That is the rule of survival (animal instinct). The
Pentecostals and protestants were using this to take advantege of
this. ( Remember the old story of Fox and two lambs.).
7) I would like to comment on shaji's observation of Matthew 5
Our Lord teaches the fundamentals of Christian teaching. He says LOVE
ALL, unconditionally. That is my understanding. That does not
translate into DISOBEY the church. Because it is the same God who
said, keep away from perverts of Gospel.
A) The whole of Chapter two written by St. Peter, deals about this.
This is very significant, as he was the administrative head of the
church. In short, chapter two tells us that that they and their
followers will be punished in the most heinous manner.
B) "If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine,
do not receive him into your house nor greet him" (2 John 10)
C) One Should keep away from (avoid) such people. (Rom 16: 17,18 )
D) They (such heretics) are accursed, even if they are from heaven.(Gal1:6,8)
F) "There will be false teachers, prophets . who will
bring in destructive heresies even denying the Lord who bought them and
bring themselves to self-destruction? And many will follow their
destructive ways .. because of whom the way of truth will be
blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive
words. For a long time their judgment has not been idle and their
destruction does not slumber" (2 Peter 2: 1-3).
So are they all conflicting? If people are gone out of church
keep away from them. But dont hate them. That is the way I see it.
What should we do ?
1 Timothy 3:14 said so " church is the foundation of truth ". So don't look here and there.
Philippians 4:9 say a believer has to do 4 things `DO what you have LEARNED, and RECEIVED, HEARD and SEEN" The God of peace with you.
So dont make your decisions based on Holy Book alone. See what church do and follow it.
Hope this helps
St.Ignatious JSC, Dallas
- Dear all
I could not open this controversial letter, Anybody can help in this regard
--- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Malankara Voice wrote:
> 1. Full Text of the controversial letter written by
> Rev.P C Yohannan Ramban (Pampady Dayara), questioning the
> integrity of Yuhanon Milithios (Trichur)
> For more Links visit:-