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Re: The success of IOC

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  • Paul Reji
    Dear varghese, Shaji and all other brothers What Brother Varghese has written is 100% true. IOC is more planned. If you read their messages here and in Indian
    Message 1 of 1039 , Jul 6, 2004
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      Dear varghese, Shaji and all other brothers

      What Brother Varghese has written is 100% true. IOC is more planned.
      If you read their messages here and in Indian Orthdox Form they focus on
      propagating,

      1) There is nothing like excommunication. It is politics.
      Do they accept Arius ? I asked one of them ? they said
      that excommunication and THIS one are different. But I cant
      see two types of ( one to be obeyed and other for fun) any where.

      2) They go and tell the faith is same. It is all orthodox. they say.
      But such a decision is against ( Matthew 16:13-20) and decisions
      of the three councils and a writings a great number of church
      fathers in the early centuries.

      3) They had the audacity to say that The Fathers that came here
      were "intruders". But Aren't they anointed too? In my view
      even if Apostles St. Thomas came here and established his OWN
      church and throne, still they( bishops from Antioch) are ALSO
      anointed people. Other wise Vattaserri thirumeni will not go to East
      to get a "legal" bishop hood. People with IOC changed and left
      the "faith" entrusted to them. But there was no change to the faith
      in Antioch from which Vattaseeril thirumeni got the apostolic
      blessings.

      So IOC has filed casees against Paravoor church and kothamangalm
      church etc. If IOC get it, what they will do? dig up the tombs and
      throw away the remains of the Fathers entmobed there? Since they are
      "intruders" it is not good to be kept in Holy Madbha. Right ?

      4) The DEEDs of seminary at Aluva and church in Parumala etc
      are in the name of Patriarch of Antioch. The hospital at
      Kolencheri has our Cathoicos HB Thomas 1's sweat on ALL the
      bricks on it. Some ...... have the audacity to get into all this
      and disparage the rightful owners of it. What really hurts is
      they have the guts to tell the people this is "CHRISTANITY".
      Shaji quoted Matthew 5:22-28 ( specially verse 23 - "Therefore, if
      you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your
      brother has something against you") to show that 'hey one should love
      his brother before any sacrifice'. Now do IOC do that ? Did they do
      that when they tried to close, destroy or snatch the church's
      from the faithful ? Did Shaji remember it? Did any one remember it? No
      one. But when our bishop OBEYED the church order many were outraged ,
      many posts were posted in Indian Orthodox Forum form touting "non
      Christian act" by Orthodox bishop and so on. Many were made "martyrs "
      out of this too.

      6) One of the IOC bishop's who deflected from JSC( I think this is
      Mar Athanatious of Muvattupuzha) approched Reeth to join them. But
      they said give all the properties to their "rightful owners" and
      they could accept them. IOC dont have at least that courtesy? And
      they talk as deciples of Lord Jesus Christ?
      More surprising, still people follow them blindly justifying them.

      5) According to our church's faith, "church is where there is a
      bishop". So bishop is powerful. So I would like not question what he
      did. Right or wrong. He has the authority and he did it. I have no
      authority to question it or comment on it.

      6) Though this split and apparent loss of faith of "the faithfuls"
      the chruch has become weak. When some thing is weak there is so many enemies
      who will take advantage
      of it. That is the rule of survival (animal instinct). The
      Pentecostals and protestants were using this to take advantege of
      this. ( Remember the old story of Fox and two lambs.).

      7) I would like to comment on shaji's observation of Matthew 5
      Our Lord teaches the fundamentals of Christian teaching. He says LOVE
      ALL, unconditionally. That is my understanding. That does not
      translate into DISOBEY the church. Because it is the same God who
      said, keep away from perverts of Gospel.

      For example,
      A) The whole of Chapter two written by St. Peter, deals about this.
      This is very significant, as he was the administrative head of the
      church. In short, chapter two tells us that that they and their
      followers will be punished in the most heinous manner.

      B) "If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine,
      do not receive him into your house nor greet him" (2 John 10)

      C) One Should keep away from (avoid) such people. (Rom 16: 17,18 )

      D) They (such heretics) are accursed, even if they are from heaven.(Gal1:6,8)

      F) "There will be false teachers, prophets…. who will
      bring in destructive heresies even denying the Lord who bought them and
      bring themselves to self-destruction? And many will follow their
      destructive ways….. because of whom the way of truth will be
      blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive
      words. For a long time their judgment has not been idle and their
      destruction does not slumber" (2 Peter 2: 1-3).

      So are they all conflicting? If people are gone out of church
      keep away from them. But dont hate them. That is the way I see it.

      What should we do ?

      1 Timothy 3:14 said so " church is the foundation of truth ". So don't look here and there.

      Philippians 4:9 say – a believer has to do 4 things `DO what you have LEARNED, and RECEIVED, HEARD and SEEN" The God of peace with you.

      So dont make your decisions based on Holy Book alone. See what church do and follow it.

      Hope this helps

      Paul Philipose
      St.Ignatious JSC, Dallas
    • Jaison
      Dear all I could not open this controversial letter, Anybody can help in this regard regards Jaison
      Message 1039 of 1039 , Sep 21, 2011
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        Dear all
        I could not open this controversial letter, Anybody can help in this regard
        regards
        Jaison

        --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Malankara Voice wrote:
        >
        > 1. Full Text of the controversial letter written by
        > Rev.P C Yohannan Ramban (Pampady Dayara), questioning the
        > integrity of Yuhanon Milithios (Trichur)
        > http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030203YohannanRambanMilithios2.htm
        >
        > For more Links visit:-
        > http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/news_section.htm
        > http://malankaravoice.cjb.net
        >
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