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Wattessril Methran, a Saint ?

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  • PAUL POTHEN
    With the announcement of Wattasseril Thirumeni as Saint, it is becoming clearer and clearer, what the future intentions of Manorama group. Instead of
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 27, 2002
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      With the announcement of Wattasseril Thirumeni as Saint, it is becoming clearer and clearer, what the future intentions of Manorama group.  Instead of Wattaseril Methran, they could have conferred sainthood to Pampady Thirumeni who according to many in their church is the apt candidate.  But the recent announcement to declare Watterril Methran as a saint in the presence of foreigners, as everyone knows, is just to provocate the Jacobites and also to hide the real facts that caused disunity in the Malankara Church.   These types of actions by the Manorama group is the real cause behind all the problems in the Malankara Church.
       
      If Manorama group is doing this before the association, then they will do anything to disturb the peace in future by changing all the Sunday school books of the Jacobite Church, even if the Jacobites opt to participate in the association election organized by Methran kakshi.  It is a known fact that the association election itself has become a farce process. This is becoming clearer and clearer, with the announcement of a MANIPULATED VOTERS LIST and a FALSE LIST OF CHURCHES that are supposed to be eligible for the participation in the association election and which is published by the Methran group recently with the complete support of a highly influential gang.  If the Jacobite Syrians decide to participate in such a farce election, it will only finally force us to submit ourselves to the Manorama church.  It is only because of this, the Jacobites prefer to stand as if now and upheld its faith, even if it looses all its churches to "power & money hungry" Manorama group and its 'new found friends' who has shifted sides from the Jacobite Church for their personal gains. -    Paul Pothen



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    • V Thomas
      Dear All, Many years back I have read a novel by name Devils Advocate .As I remember in that book the author mentions the discreet methods catholic church
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 1, 2002
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        Dear All,
         
        Many years back I have read a novel by name" Devils Advocate".As I remember
        in that book the author mentions the  discreet methods  catholic church takes before
        declaring  one as saint.(canonisation).There has to be records of miracles conducted
        by the person when he was living and also  miracles happened by the intercession of the
        saint .They have not declared mother Therasa as saint so far ,even  though we in  india
        used to consider her as a living saint ,when she was alive..Do we (syrian orthodox church)
        have any procedure for canonisation?How we have declared the earlier metropolitans as saint?.
         
        I have not heard about the miracles  done by  Vattaseril thirumeni,during his life,other than
        the strife HG has created.Many people,I have heard, describing him as  very 'smart.'  but not saintly.
        HG and his followers could establish St Thomas throne in India,by deciet. H.G could  divide our church
        I have heard, HG was ruthless to his opponents.In this connection, I have heard a story about
        the Malanaka Metro politan who was cast  out by Vttaseril metropolitan  ruthlessly from pazhaya seminary then
        That bishop took  asylum in Panambady  St Marys church.HG was very old , a pious and simple man who was
        no match for vattaseril faction.(.Paulose Mor Kurilos,Kochuparambil thirumeni).
        This story was told by none other than our late Perumballi Thirumeni
        Story
        kochuparambil thirumeni was old and pious.HG was meticulous in his seven times  a day prayers.
        For midnight prayer he used to rely the call of  Puvan khozhy(cock).
        As oldest and senior most metroploitan he was the Malnkara metropolitan.After division in chuch
        as a supporter of Patriarch he was asked to go out from Pazhaya seminary,as pazhaya seminary
        came in to the hands of Metran kashi..By  kettu vallam(boat),from Pazhaya seminary HG came down to
        St Marys church panambady which is down the stream.
        But Vattseril faction thought as a Malakara Metropolitan H.G may create problem and wanted finish off
        Thirumeni.They hired a notorious killer of that time by  name Anapappy to kill the bishop.
        Anappay came in the midnight to kill thrumeni and entered the thirumeni's room
        As thirumeni was not there ,he went back  with the intention of returning,after some time
        History says he was killed by Muslims,the same night.
        Where was the H.G when Anappappy came?As per the version of  our dear late prumballil thirumeni,
        who was famous for metaphorical narrations,that  night puven kozhy(cock) gave the alaram(kooval),early
        and thirumeni  went to pary earlier than ebvery night.When Anapappy was looking for thirumeni,
        the angels were gaurding H.G.
        Leave alone this story.I am a beneficiary,of the intercession of kochuparambil thirumeni,many times.
        Thirumeni is a saint and we need to look into the life of H.G as Malayalmanorama
        has already made Vattaseril Thirumeni a saint.
        Suggestion.
        MM SHOULD DECLARE ANAPAPAY ALSO A SAINT.!!!
        vmt
         
        --- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 5:15 PM
        Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] Wattessril Methran, a Saint ?

        With the announcement of Wattasseril Thirumeni as Saint, it is becoming clearer and clearer, what the future intentions of Manorama group.  Instead of Wattaseril Methran, they could have conferred sainthood to Pampady Thirumeni who according to many in their church is the apt candidate.....
      • MalankaraVoice.cjb.net
        V Thomas (vthomas@telgroup.co.in) wrote on 2-March-2002, Suggestion. MM SHOULD DECLARE ANAPAPAY ALSO A SAINT.!!! Read the below News from Malayala
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 2, 2002
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          V Thomas  (vthomas@...)   wrote on  2-March-2002,

                                " Suggestion.   MM SHOULD DECLARE ANAPAPAY ALSO A SAINT.!!! "

           

                                        Read the below News from Malayala Manorama about   Mr.ANAPAPPY         

          On 18th Feb 2002 (Sunday), a special commemorative meeting on the life of the body guard of Wattasseril Thirumeni,  Mr.‘ANAPPAPPY’ ,  was held at Kottayam Cherya palli Hospital at 4.00 PM.   The meeting was presided over by  Chengannoor Metropolitan, ‘Thomas Athanasius’, and others were also present.  It is heard that the speakers praised this ANAPAPPY for his services. 

          A concerned news about the event was published in ‘MALAYALA MANORAMA’ daily on 17th Feb 2002, Page 3, Kottayam Edition.  You can access the news by clicking the following link.

              Click here for the concerned news on Commemoration of Anapappy

           

           

           

          V Thomas <vthomas@...> wrote:

          Dear All,
           
          Many years back I have read a novel by name" Devils Advocate".As I remember
          in that book the author mentions the  discreet methods  catholic church takes before
          declaring  one as saint.(canonisation).There has to be records of miracles conducted
          by the person when he was living and also  miracles happened by the intercession of the
          saint .They have not declared mother Therasa as saint so far ,even  though we in  india
          used to consider her as a living saint ,when she was alive..Do we (syrian orthodox church)
          have any procedure for canonisation?How we have declared the earlier metropolitans as saint?.
           
          I have not heard about the miracles  done by  Vattaseril thirumeni,during his life,other than
          the strife HG has created.Many people,I have heard, describing him as  very 'smart.'  but not saintly.
          HG and his followers could establish St Thomas throne in India,by deciet. H.G could  divide our church
          I have heard, HG was ruthless to his opponents.In this connection, I have heard a story about
          the Malanaka Metro politan who was cast  out by Vttaseril metropolitan  ruthlessly from pazhaya seminary then
          That bishop took  asylum in Panambady  St Marys church.HG was very old , a pious and simple man who was
          no match for vattaseril faction.(.Paulose Mor Kurilos,Kochuparambil thirumeni).
          This story was told by none other than our late Perumballi Thirumeni
          Story
          kochuparambil thirumeni was old and pious.HG was meticulous in his seven times  a day prayers.
          For midnight prayer he used to rely the call of  Puvan khozhy(cock).
          As oldest and senior most metroploitan he was the Malnkara metropolitan.After division in chuch
          as a supporter of Patriarch he was asked to go out from Pazhaya seminary,as pazhaya seminary
          came in to the hands of Metran kashi..By  kettu vallam(boat),from Pazhaya seminary HG came down to
          St Marys church panambady which is down the stream.
          But Vattseril faction thought as a Malakara Metropolitan H.G may create problem and wanted finish off
          Thirumeni.They hired a notorious killer of that time by  name Anapappy to kill the bishop.
          Anappay came in the midnight to kill thrumeni and entered the thirumeni's room
          As thirumeni was not there ,he went back  with the intention of returning,after some time
          History says he was killed by Muslims,the same night.
          Where was the H.G when Anappappy came?As per the version of  our dear late prumballil thirumeni,
          who was famous for metaphorical narrations,that  night puven kozhy(cock) gave the alaram(kooval),early
          and thirumeni  went to pary earlier than ebvery night.When Anapappy was looking for thirumeni,
          the angels were gaurding H.G.
          Leave alone this story.I am a beneficiary,of the intercession of kochuparambil thirumeni,many times.
          Thirumeni is a saint and we need to look into the life of H.G as Malayalmanorama
          has already made Vattaseril Thirumeni a saint.
          Suggestion.
          MM SHOULD DECLARE ANAPAPAY ALSO A SAINT.!!!
          vmt
           
          --- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 5:15 PM
          Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] Wattessril Methran, a Saint ?

          With the announcement of Wattasseril Thirumeni as Saint, it is becoming clearer and clearer, what the future intentions of Manorama group.  Instead of Wattaseril Methran, they could have conferred sainthood to Pampady Thirumeni who according to many in their church is the apt candidate.....

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        • drthomas_joseph
          ... The Syriac Orthodox Church does not have the rigorous and formal procedure of canonization or beatification as practiced in the Roman Catholic Church. The
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 3, 2002
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            In message #453, "V Thomas" <vthomas@t...> wrote:
            > Do we (syrian orthodox church) have any procedure for canonisation?
            > How we have declared the earlier metropolitans as saint?.

            The Syriac Orthodox Church does not have the rigorous and formal
            procedure of canonization or beatification as practiced in the Roman
            Catholic Church. The fathers of the church were not compelled to
            establish such formal processes most likely due to the reluctance to
            establish parameters for "holiness" best left to judgment in the
            sight of God. In practice, the holiness of a saint is recognized by
            popular acclaim and over time the more prominent of the holy ones are
            commemorated as saints in the liturgies. Today, from a liturgical
            perspective, the formal recognition as a saint comes with the
            authorization to use the quqalya of the zadeeqe (hymns for
            intercession of the righteous) in his or her commemoration at the
            tomb or on the memorial day. Given the widely variant list of local
            saints in the calendars of different monasteries in the Middle East,
            I suspect that such recognitions of sainthood were made rather
            informally by the abbots of monasteries. In recent times, the
            Patriarch as the spiritual head of the Church grants such
            authorizations with the consent of the Holy Synod. However, given the
            fact that the fifth diptych (Syr. toob-deyn) read universally has
            undergone no changes since it was authored by Mor Ya`qub of Edessa
            (c. AD 633-708), it is unlikely that any Patriarch since has formally
            declared anyone a universal saint. (Note that even the encyclical
            from HH the Patriarch No. E265/87 dt. Oct 20, 1987 permits additions
            to the diptych for use only in Malankara).

            In my humble opinion, the Church should remain true to its traditions
            and shy away from formal bestowals of sainthood. It is up to the
            faithful to seek intercession of whoever they consider holy in the
            sight of God. After all is said and done, those who have a 'confident
            stand in the presence of God' are the ones who are holy.

            Thomas Joseph, Ph.D.
            Web Master, SOR (http://sor.cua.edu)
            Technical Editor, Hugoye: Journal of Syriac Studies
            (http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye)
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