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Re: [SOCM-FORUM] Re: Association Meeting

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  • V Thomas
    Dear Achen, What is deserving honour?They accept Patriarch only as per constitution.The constitution says for the Patriarchs ordination Catholoca is must.Hence
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 7, 2002
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      Dear Achen,
       
      What is deserving honour?They accept Patriarch only as per constitution.The constitution says
      for the Patriarchs ordination Catholoca is must.Hence present,Partarch is not recognized
      as per constitution.After an association conducted some how,when catholica is made Malankara Metropolitan,
      this is what they will say.Once cheated in1958  we must be real gullible do repeat the same mistake.
      The Association notice itself says to 'declare Catholica as Malankara Metropolitan' ,not to elect one.
       
      Many political and religious dignitories tried(HG Cyril Mor Basaeleos,President
      catholic Bishops council also tried) to arrange a meeting between Patriarch and Catholicos during HH visit to
      Chingavanam-at least tea together.Orthodox leadership refused , for the same reason.(If they have to recognise
      Patriarch,HH may have to be reordained.!!!)
      When it comes to the core no spokesman is there.They will float many statements.Newsflashes about mediation
      by YMCA,Eccuminical forums,leading persons will come and all failed because of Jacobites obstinacy.Hvae they moved an inch?
      This is all propaganda  to confuse our people.
      You said situation has changed.? How is that?We were seperated based on the issue of St.Thomas Throne.
      (The question of Swayam serhatham)They still hold on to it.They filed  a case saying 1054 churches are theirs and this
      association is based on verdict of that case.Now they have 1500 churches,including our church in Bangalore in the list.
      That is the difference.There is no change other than few more Metropolitans has changed over to the other side.
      love and regards
      vmt
       
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 3:48 AM
      Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] Re: Association Meeting

      To my knowledge Dr KM George, orthodox spokesman, declared that they are ready to accord deserving honor to Patriarch. I also heard that the same thing the catholicose gave in writing to about 30 Kottayam clergies who met him last month. Can you please verify that news? If it is correct it addresses our concerns, right? Love, Johnachan. 
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: V Thomas
      Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 7:17 AM
      To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] Re: Association Meeting
       
      Dear Jonachen,
      What is so unchristian in keeping our tradition and staying in allegiance
      with Patriach?The Christian love is not one way traffic.(Atleast when we deal with these
      zealous lot ,who is not bothered).What they want?They want our buildings? They can take it.
      We need our faith and will stay in Patriarch side.Buying a few people and closing our church
      and services-is it Christian love.?This is what they were doing all these years.
      Is it correct for them to call the meeting as they like,disobeying the  verdict-is it Christian love?
      To have a niyuktha bava is it correct for them?
      .Then it is correct for us also..
      Many in the forum says we shall surrender to them,just like that.When they stamp us,they keep quite.
      As far our actions are concerned it is all unchristian,for them..
      We have to believe in christian obedience also.They do not obey Patriarch(In fact they do not
      recognise present HH) .We will  go as per HH directions,not by,catholicose directions.We not not believe
      not obeying catholicose is lack of Christain love..
      Love and regards
      vmt


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    • DANIEL BABU PAUL
      i appreciate your sentiments. may god bless you. catholicose was, still is, willing to sign a joint declaration accepting the Patriarch and annex thereto all
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 10, 2002
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        i appreciate your sentiments. may god bless you.
        catholicose was, still is, willing to sign a joint declaration accepting the Patriarch and annex thereto all Supreme Court orders and the Constitution, personally signed on every page. The patriarch PERSONALLY found it satisfactory, but there were people on both sides who opposed. for every word we say against them they have two words to say against us, starting from saying that Mar Thoma was a kappiar( that is how they put it!!). the sensible thing to do now IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES AS THEY EXIST TODAY is to say whatever we want to say INSIDE the church. we have already made a number of educated people run away to Pentecostal groups etc.by not going to the Association we are opting out voluntarily from the malankara church, unless the Supreme Court would do a volte face andsay something they have not said so far. anyway the church is the body of Christ. God will guide.let us keep praying that His will be done.
        TOTUS TUUS MARIA
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 11:18 AM
        Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] Re: Association Meeting

        schlomo,

        with due respect to Babu Paul sir i would like him to clarify a few points here.

      • Fr. John Kunjukunju
        While agreeing with our respected son of the church my deep agony is that why people do not think seriously why well educated and active people born, bought
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 10, 2002
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          While agreeing with our respected "son of the church" my deep agony is that why people do not think seriously why well educated and active people born, bought up, taught in the faith of the church is deserting it! Certain over enthusiastic people instead of finding sufficient reasons, simply brand them as ignorant, disobedient, cheater, selfish and so on while people who are fit to be called so remain in the fold and no one takes notice of it.
          I have also some such story to tell.
          Back in early seventy's  I wrote to the then catholicose, V Rev Paul Remban later Mor Gregorious, Editor of Malankara sabha weekly, Illustrated weekly and etc. Some of the members in this form know about it. I miserably regret for the words then I used out of my extreme interest and faithfulness to Patriarch. When understand realities are made known by experience, I hope every one would have enough to regret.
          My appeal to everyone in Christ's love is that we Indians take servitude as our birth right. Submission is not servitude. So contain all divisive thought and work for unity and peace.
          I heard someone say can SC dictate our faith, etc. Let them think that SC did not interfere voluntarily. We were the one who went to court and wanted its verdict. So let us respect its verdict and that is minimum courtesy. Moreover SC verdict says, "both parties agreed for unity". Those who say, "divide" mean that this statement is a lie? Fr John KK. 
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: DANIEL BABU PAUL
          Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:42 AM
          To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] Re: Association Meeting
           
          i appreciate your sentiments. may god bless you.
          catholicose was, still is, willing to sign a joint declaration accepting the Patriarch and annex thereto all Supreme Court orders and the Constitution, personally signed on every page. The patriarch PERSONALLY found it satisfactory, but there were people on both sides who opposed. for every word we say against them they have two words to say against us, starting from saying that Mar Thoma was a kappiar( that is how they put it!!). the sensible thing to do now IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES AS THEY EXIST TODAY is to say whatever we want to say INSIDE the church. we have already made a number of educated people run away to Pentecostal groups etc.by not going to the Association we are opting out voluntarily from the malankara church, unless the Supreme Court would do a volte face andsay something they have not said so far. anyway the church is the body of Christ. God will guide.let us keep praying that His will be done.
          TOTUS TUUS MARIA
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 11:18 AM
          Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] Re: Association Meeting

          schlomo,

          with due respect to Babu Paul sir i would like him to clarify a few points here.

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