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A response from Rev. Dr. P. C. Eapen.

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  • thirumeni@aol.com
    This a response Rev. Dr. P. C. Eapen send to me when I send him the response Sabu has written. Love, Nicholovos Thirumeni I saw the sarcastic message you
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 7, 2002
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      This a response Rev. Dr. P. C. Eapen send to me when I send him the response Sabu has written.
      Love,
      Nicholovos Thirumeni

      I saw the sarcastic message you circulated in response to my letter to the
      editor of Church Weekly.
      I am sorry if my plea to help establish lasting peace in the church really
      hurt the feelings of any one.
      The present Malankara Association is convened as per mutually agreed terms
      as per suggestions made by the learned Lawyers of both the factions  at the
      behest of the Supreme Court Judges and
      accepted by the Supreme Court and the Association is to be conducted under
      the supervision and guidance of an observer appointed by the Supreme
      Court,based on agreement reached by both sides.It certainly is a unique
      golden opportunity for establishing lasting peace in our church.
      In fact the Malankara Church had its assocations with the Patriarch only for
      safeguarding the apostolic succession of our prelates.As all orthodox
      churches are national churches,like the Armenian,the ethiopian,the
      Russian,the greeketc,it is time that we assert our independence as a
      national church and discourage foreign interfearence in the internal
      administration of Churches and properties that comes under the jurisdiction
      of the Indian church.Please note the following:-
      In para 142(4) of the Supreme Court judgement of 1995,the Court has
      found,"It may be that by virtue of the revival of the Catholicate and by
      issuing the Kalpana Ex.A.14- and also by accepting the 1934 constitution
      thepower of the Patriarch may have been reduced to a vanishing point,but all
      the same he remains the Supreme head of the syrian church of which the
      Malankara Church is a division.He is spritually superior to the Catholicos
      though he does not,and indeed never did,enjoy any temporal powers over the
      Malankara Church or its properties."
      No Indian Citizen has to say he respects supreme court verdict.As Dr.Babu
      Paul has pointed out in his observations which I presume you have
      seen,reiterates that the Supreme Court verdict is binding on all the church
      members ireespective of whether he likes it or not.
      Since the Supreme court has banned all litigations pertaining to the
      association in any other court except the Supreme Court ,I presume that
      after the Association,based on the report submitted by the Observer
      appointed by the Court,a clear directive will be forthcoming from the
      Supreme Court which will be binding on all concerned and since the Court is
      already seized of the meaninglessness of the Church litigation will
      pronounce a total BAN on all litigations related to our church in any court
      in the Indian Union.This is my wish and great expectation which need not
      necessarily be misconstrued as prophetical,and taken lightly.Let us with all
      humility pray ardently for lasting peace to be established in our
      church,without wasting our precious time,talents,and money any longer.As His
      Holiness the Catholicos has repeatedly reiterated without the possibility of
      any doubt,let us not have any misconception about
      the honour with which we could continue to have the Patriarch held in high
      esteem as we have been doing.Kindly forgive me this long letter.
      Rev.Fr.Dr.P.C.Eapen.Mysore

    • dipu george
      schlomo, hmmmm.......... we have other options dear thirumeni... Nicholovos Thirumeni 1___The present Malankara Association is convened as per mutually agreed
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 8, 2002
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        schlomo,

        hmmmm.......... we have other options dear thirumeni...

        Nicholovos Thirumeni

        1___The present Malankara Association is convened as per mutually agreed terms
        as per suggestions made by the learned Lawyers of both the factions  at the
        behest of the Supreme Court Judges and
        accepted by the Supreme Court and the Association is to be conducted under
        the supervision and guidance of an observer appointed by the Supreme
        Court,based on agreement reached by both sides.It certainly is a unique
        golden opportunity for establishing lasting peace in our church

        ans______.it was Mar Militeus who was entrusted with informing our lawyers the various aspects regarding our status and faith and history of our church .Well he has defected to the metran kakshi's side along with Mar Athanasious.if i am to be believed then there is a strong belief that he has provided necessary false inputs to our very own lawyers.


        2___In fact the Malankara Church had its assocations with the Patriarch only for
        safeguarding the apostolic succession of our prelates.As all orthodox
        churches are national churches,like the Armenian,the ethiopian,the
        Russian,the greeketc,it is time that we assert our independence as a
        national church and discourage foreign interfearence in the internal
        administration of Churches and properties that comes under the jurisdiction
        of the Indian church.

        ans__May God curse you for uttering such Blasphemy. read the works of the most rev Kanyamparambil achan before uttering such stupidity !!!!!!

        3____Please note the following:-
        In para 142(4) of the Supreme Court judgement of 1995,the Court has
        found,"It may be that by virtue of the revival of the Catholicate and by
        issuing the Kalpana Ex.A.14- and also by accepting the 1934 constitution
        thepower of the Patriarch may have been reduced to a vanishing point,but all
        the same he remains the Supreme head of the syrian church of which the
        Malankara Church is a division.He is spritually superior to the Catholicos
        though he does not,and indeed never did,enjoy any temporal powers over the
        Malankara Church or its properties."

         

        ans___its a pity that the most rev kanyamparambil achan's  book on church history has gone to waste by the above statement.

        thirumeni himself has disregarded the works of kanyamparambil achan's contributions to the church.  pity.what can i say now ? hmmmmmmmm

        do u know why the most blessed holy father did that when he accepted the catholicose!!!!????

        HH Mor YacoubIII agreed so that atleast peace could survive in the church.the holy father wanted peace .

        that was why he was willing to go the further mile to do that!!!! it has now become a liability for us.

        i only wish the holy father hadnt done that. we malayalis are a cursed people!!  why do we have to cause pain to those men of god from God's own native place???? what wrong have those men of god done to us ???
        why ? why? why? god curse those people who have caused such harm to these men of god . of abraham's own kith and kin. god will not forgive us for this. i hope the thirumeni is the best person to inform us on the power and wrath of god.

        while then the patriach accepted the catholicose without any preconditions now it has become a bane to us.

        why ? why? it is better for me to cut my relation with the malankara church than to accept a catholicose not ordained by Holy Father.i hope the day will come when the aboudi comes back . i have made a pledge...from henceforth i will bring up my next genertion on the faith on the mother church only....i will never believe my malayali brethren any further.we have  brought the curse to ourselves by this sinful deed.

        keep in mind thirumeni!!! i have been witness to the saintliness of our present patriach !!! no force on earth can ever dilute that faith from me .not the catholicose or his  like !!!

        through our actions we have only brought guilty blood on the most holy church.


        4____No Indian Citizen has to say he respects supreme court verdict.As Dr.Babu
        Paul has pointed out in his observations which I presume you have
        seen,reiterates that the Supreme Court verdict is binding on all the church
        members ireespective of whether he likes it or not.

        ans____there is the court of our conscience !!!!! can the supreme court ever dictate or force us to change that verdict of our conscience  provided by god?????? no . the chief justice himself stated that 80% of the judges in the supreme court are corrupt !!!!!!! this case is very similar to what marthshmouni and her seven children experienced in the old testament . we have that for our guidance .

        who is this court on earth to bring judgement upon a man ordained by the Holy Spirit to look after His flock on earth.??

        My Patriach is bigger to me than all what this world can offer me  for he stands in the feet of  St Peter .i am but a sinner before my Patriach. no matter how hard we mallus try .kaka kulichaal kokku aakumao? he comes from the holy land . The Patriach is most closest to God in this world .

         


        5___Since the Supreme court has banned all litigations pertaining to the
        association in any other court except the Supreme Court ,I presume that
        after the Association,based on the report submitted by the Observer
        appointed by the Court,a clear directive will be forthcoming from the
        Supreme Court which will be binding on all concerned and since the Court is
        already seized of the meaninglessness of the Church litigation will
        pronounce a total BAN on all litigations related to our church in any court
        in the Indian Union.

        ans___great!!! even if we boycott the association ...it is for our sustanence only !!!! we will refuse entry to the metran kakshis bishops and priests and catholicose to our churches . they cant again go  to court saying they were refused entry!!!! can they ? no . well...what is the other option ...they will use force through the govt machinery....ie the kerala police ....isnt it? now who wants peace here ...us or them ? dont u see what they have in mind.   well.....i have made my find to defend this faith inspite of the judgement . if the police use bullets then i am ready to die for my faith rather than accept through force and coersion .

        rev P.C.Eapen himself has proved as to what the true intentions of the metran kakshis are.

        the church does not need properties or wealth. i hope our bishops and priests understand that.

        As i said before it is this basic fact to the whole dispute. if our bishops have defected to the metran kakshi's side then it is for material gains and rich comfort of life only. nothing else.

        remember the words of Michael Mar Dionysius when he was temted by the metran kakshi's bishops to defect to their side . his words were " alli have is this robe ,the bible and a torn mattress and my faith . that alone is enough for me !!!!! " thirumeni ....can u take a similar decision like this?

         

        6___This is my wish and great expectation which need not
        necessarily be misconstrued as prophetical,and taken lightly.Let us with all
        humility pray ardently for lasting peace to be established in our
        church,without wasting our precious time,talents,and money any longer.As His
        Holiness the Catholicos has repeatedly reiterated without the possibility of
        any doubt,let us not have any misconception about
        the honour with which we could continue to have the Patriarch held in high
        esteem as we have been doing.Kindly forgive me this long letter.
        Rev.Fr.Dr.P.C.Eapen.Mysore

        ans____why were we taught about the faith of our fore fathers? .they will never forgive us if we turn away from the true faith.

        can the supreme court do anything about that?. it is upto this present generation to preserve the faith handed down to us by our fathers and their fathers before that.

        as i have been stating continuously.......... who are we sinful mortals to pass judgement on the kind of authority the patriach can have on us !!!!! god curse such people .  its a pity .....a real pity............

        it seems the rev has never been taught church history.

        the patriach is not interested in the money of the malankara church !!!!!!!! u should nail this fact to your brain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Amme Marannaalum  Njangal  Antiochiaaaye  Marakillaaaaaa !!!!!!!!!

        it is better for us to die rather than be forced to accept falsehood for god will never forgive us .

        ur words are prophetic for once  compromise on faith and history happens then in the near future this will become another Sodom and Gommoraah . i wish the holy fathers hadnt come here at all for we have only given them pain and nothing else .....forgive us oh saints for we are a sinful people ...we are after all malayalis ...we are a hypocratic society ...a ignorant people ...and we have no faith in ourselves ..for it is our misgiving if we have rejected the true faith.....but keep in mind ...no matter what the outcome...there will be a microscopic minority ( who ofcourse cant change the  treacherous course this malankara church is taking) like me who have taken a pledge that atleast their next generation will be  handed the true faith,belief and history such that it will be preserved ...... we wont accept anything unless approved by the patriach ...thats for sure

        i dont know ...but such statements from people in robes let emotion take the better of me.

        is it worth it? is money everything that matters ? for that do we have to forfeit our birthright to our faith and history and beliefs??? ......... NO.........



        aboun bdashmayo .......... may god have mercy on us sinners for causing pain and harm to our Holy Patriach through our vicious and sinful deeds.

        aloho ahmuch

        dipu george


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      • Fr. John Kunjukunju
        Ignorance will never be out of our mind. ... From: dipu george Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 3:57 AM To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 9, 2002
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          Ignorance will never be out of our mind. 
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: dipu george
          Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 3:57 AM
          To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] A response from Rev. Dr. P. C. Eapen.
           

          schlomo,

          hmmmm.......... we have other options dear thirumeni...

          Nicholovos Thirumeni

          1___The present Malankara Association is convened as per mutually agreed terms
          as per suggestions made by the learned Lawyers of both the factions  at the
          behest of the Supreme Court Judges and
          accepted by the Supreme Court and the Association is to be conducted under

        • DANIEL BABU PAUL
          dear dipu, yr response to Thirumeni makes interesting reading. The present supreme court verdict provides for people like you and me who treasure the link with
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 10, 2002
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            dear dipu,
            yr response to Thirumeni makes interesting reading. The present supreme court verdict provides for people like you and me who treasure the link with Antioch. Only, we wont be part of the malankara church. we can be under the Patriarch through metropolitans Benyamin, Yulios, Policarpos, Ivanios and Koorilose. For people who are safely away in USA etc. it would make no difference at all, but for those living in India there may be some practical problems , that is all.
            as an older person(I am 60+) I may be permitted to correct some patent errors. Our Patriarchs do not come from where Jesus lived. That is Israel and Palestine. Nor are they any more connected to Abraham than we Indians because they are Arabs.That is Gentile converts just like our forefathers.These are just facts for your knowledge: since both of us have ESSENTIALLY the same faith though our appreciation of law, history and theology may vary, I thought i would just caution you so that you would verify facts in future correspondence. There are other similar points in your answer which require editing e.g. Miletus left our side much before the agreed verdict about the Association, the present agreement is by Dionysius Thirumeni.Please forgive me for not pointing out all such mistakes; it is for want of time, not affection for a young concerned co-believer.
            may God bless us all(including Nicholavos Thitrumeni.)
            TOTUS TUUS MARIA
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 12:41 PM
            Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] A response from Rev. Dr. P. C. Eapen.

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