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Re: [SOCM-FORUM] Fwd: My concespt of unity:

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  • dipu george
    ... my reply to the concerned author of this letter. ... i sincerely welcome those far sighted people....but such things come with a heavy price- compromise-
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 31, 2002
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      >Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:21:09 -0500 

       

      my reply to the concerned author of this letter.

       

      >But there are people in both factions genuinely interested in unity and concord in the church. Unfortunately they are outcasts and no one pays attention to them.

      i sincerely welcome  those far sighted people....but such things come with a heavy price- compromise- tell me one thing-if it  (the faith and true history) can be proved will one faction ( i mean the metran faction) accept this -definitely not.....does that mean we have to accept their version and hope for unity....is diluting a truth a part of reconciliation ?

       

      >1, The Catholicose must and should, not as a matter of choice but as a matter of faith, literally declare obedience to the Supreme Court verdict which we all know was bought with great backdoor price that the Patriarch is the head od the Church, Malankara is not independent but an integral part of the Syrian Orthodox Church. By this he is honoring not simply the patriarch but the Supreme Court of India.

      recently the chief justice of india himself opined that 80% of the judges in the supreme court are corrupt...but then ...we have no option but to put our faith in it because we all respect our indian constitution.

      >2, The Patriarch must and should acknowlgedge the reality and declare complete independence to the internal affairs of Malankara. He should be satisfied with Spiritual authority only. He shall not in anyway interfere with the internal administration and not entertain direct correspondances concerning church affairs.

      why do u have to drag the holy father into this?......what is the duty of the patriach of this church...he is the successor to st peter...what was st peters duty on this earth? the patriach stands for the representative of god on this earth and we as obedient children believe in this.the patriach himself said he is not interested in the finances of the malankara church... he  is a living saint and one should not set conditions before this man of god..who are we ...mere mortals to decide the amount of responsibilities the patriach should have for his title is holy and we are but sinners before god.

      keep in mind the fate of ananias and his wife while before peter...one should consider the patriach as one who believes in st peter... do you?

      his word stands for the same authority as that of st peter and mind you the holy father is a wise scholar and a very intelligent man..one need not ever doubt our patriach...

      what eligibility do lay members have to set such opinions ..these should be left to men of wisdom ..of the likes of malankara malpan- unfortunately we lack in such men like him

      >The present trend is that if you write something against the bishop or any one in hirarchy, no matter wthether it is true or false, it will be attended with top priority. Again if the allegations are severe the reply will be fast. On the other hand if you write about unity or certain things that need correction, it will never see light or it will reach wrong hands and would get undue publicity.

      nobody wants that ...but tell me how can unity ever be achieved? ....the seeds of discontent have been laid long back and it has taken deep roots ...

      i also moan about the present scenario in this church but nobody has ever given a true answer to my queries of the metrans faction actions and beliefs.

      they are very quiet whenevr i quote from the malakara malpan's sabha charithram.....they cant digest it and they conveniently ignore it.

      the scholarness of the the very rev kanyamparambil achan can never be questioned...in fact his 100 days at the high court for the sabha case and its judgement on this matter is well known....why didnt the metran faction then accept the verdict..our opponent then was their catholicose !!

       

      >3, Both Patriarch and the Catholicose should not interfere in the internal affairs of the diocese. The bishop should be free to administer his diocese. He should not be put in culprit's cage for an administrative action.

      i still dont understand as to how andwhy u could decide the patriach's authority on his own flock here. the constitution of 1934 is crap..one should throw it away ..

      compiled by mortals  it has only helped in diluting the divinity of the church...to make it more democratic they say.....the priest who dances according to the whims and fancies of the laity will be most favoured for the post of bishop...this is going to be the trend....a very dangerous trend and will sow further dissent !!

       

      >If there is dereliction as far as the faith and doctrinal matters it should be dealt with canonically, Hydaya canon clearly defines how to do in such matters. Appointing mockery commisions, issuing orders at the whims and fancies of certain individuals should be stopped.

      i dont know what u mean by this......but let me say one thing.....no matter what u say ...the faith which  parumala thirumeni  folowed was not of of the throne of st thomas  ......there was no throne of st thomas then...... this was  a concept evolved only in 1912...long after his death and one of the proponents of this heresy went and formed the syro malankara church.the bishops of the metran faction during their ordination dont bother to say their allegiance to the patriach...parumala thirumeni had done that.......christ!!!  there a lot of such problems that it is now difficult to discuss peace

      the question is not about faith here....the problem lies in the metran faction grabbing as many money minting churches so as to form their new church.that is the naked truth.

      what is needed is what the holy father himself said for the future of the church ...he said that in future priests should be highly educated and qualified and also requested that god fearing and educated  families should dedicate their sons to prieshoodas what has been the tradition..

      surely this is a far sighted vision...we can probably dream of future scholars like the malankara malpans

      half knowledge is definitely dangerous ...one can be a religous zealot but one should abhore fanaticism.if that can be followed probably one can dream of the greater glory of the malankara syrian orthodox church.

       

       

      >If the charge relates to moral turpitude-criminal in nature- let the law of the land take its course. Neither catholicose nor the Patriarch should involve and issue orders in such cases.

      leave the patriach out of this......go say this to the catholicose

       

      >4, No bishop should be tried in a synod in the absense of the defendant bishop. No bishop or priest or laity should be judged before affording full opportunity to defend.

      i guess u seem to have some experience in this so i guess i have nothing to coment on this aspect because i am ignorant in this .

       

      >5, The post of a deligate in the office of the Patriarch should be abbrogated. There is no need of such a deligate since all the bishops are indeed deligates and all are conversand to correspond in common language English.

      i still regret the day Aboudi thirumeni was forced to leave india. well if the pope can have his ambassador here in india then  what is the problem in having such a delegate.......for only then can the patriach get first hand info......the leaving of aboudi has only created more confusions and problems.....

      >In my opinion the deligate system is spoiling the whole dignity of the office of Patriarch.

      i still believe that  the  aboudi be brought back to serve as our delegate...what have we to hide before such a delegate....or do the bishops have  some ulterior motives in this?

      >6, The Partiarch should be given Reseesa.

      cant comment cause i dont know what a reseesa is ...

      >7, Personal correspondances between the Patriarch and the Catholicose should not be published without express consent of both parties.

      hmm.....thats proof indeed that there were,are and will be future confrontations.......will there ever  be a day when the catholicose in his letter would describe himself as a true servant of the patriach....?

       

      >8, Certain books especially those used for teaching and history should be ammened as recommened by a commission appointed exclusively for that purpose.

      no mortals can distort the truth .....they can distort history....how do u expect to read a comprimised history.....it wont last...what can the comission do

      can they recommend that as for a comprimise st thomas founded a church or say...that thematter be ignored all together

       

      >9, None including Patriarch and Catholicose should declare any new dogmatic matter without the express written consent of the Synod.

      the syrian orthodox church has a universal synod...and our bishops attend it ....and it has always been an unanimous decisions..i dont know the cases of the local synods presided by the metran faction's catholicose......the supremacy of the patriach is unquestionable....let ther be no doubts abou

       

      >10, All bishops shall have equal rights in the synod without which that is invalid.

      i wonder whether u r a bishop urself? if not i suggest u desist from providing such atrocious comments for church matters is best left to the church authority.

       

      (sd)

      dipu george



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