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Re: Are we fanatics??? - Reply to Aley John and other

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  • Koshy George
    Dear Aley John and others, Your concern on all the points raised seems to be very relevant. It is true that we are spending crores of rupees for cases. You
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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      Dear Aley John and others,

      Your concern on all the points raised seems to be very relevant.
      It is true that we are spending crores of rupees for cases. You
      have rightly pointed it too. But the problem with many persons
      is that they are only seeing one side of the coin.

      The Jacobites are a people who are defending for their existence.
      Some may think that since we are all Christians we must always take
      a policy to avoid issues even by giving up everything. Being a human
      being I can’t always agree with that. Take the case of Kunnamkulam
      Arthat Simhasana church. It was built by Saintly Sleeba Mar Osthathios
      Bava in a land donated to the Holy See by a group of people who found
      it difficult to carry on their daily Spiritual needs in their parent
      church. Bava’s silent prayers helped to construct a church there and
      he was buried here and for lakhs of people this is a Holy place. But
      after the farce unity of 1958, the opposite group started to create
      problems in that church by trying to bring it under the direct control
      of the Malankara Metropolitan who was also the Catholicos then.
      Former Catholicos Baselios Geevarghese II even dared to enter this
      Church inorder to take control of the Church and its properties. He
      was then accompanied by a strong police force against the kind request
      of the people who were members of that Church. The problems started
      at that time continues even now. At present while 1000 odd familes
      are Jacobites, there are only less than 13 who are siding with the
      opposite group. Moreoever there are 2 large Churches and 5 small
      capels for the opposite group very near to this Simhasana Church.
      (The main Church which is in total control of opposite group is
      just 1/2 a kilometer away from the Simhasana Church) While most
      of the opposite group have no objection in stopping the cases against
      the Jacobites it is the very who are in the leadership of opposite
      group who are continuing with the cases. While all including those
      in opposite group call the Church as ‘Bava’s Pally’ or Simhasana Church,
      the very few in methran faction call it Arthat ‘Puthen pally’ with the
      intention to mix it with the IOC churches. Malayala Manorama is the
      group which helps to propogate this usage by giving the name of the
      Church as Arthat ‘Puthen Pally’ in their Calendars published every year.

      I have expressed so much to point out the malefic intentions of the
      opposite group. Now they have filed another case in Supreme Court
      against even the Simhasana Churches claiming that there are no such
      Churches in Malankara. Every other persons knows that there are many
      Simhasana Churches like Majanikkara, Perumpally, Soonoro at Ekm.,
      Kottayam, Kunnamkulam, Malecurisu and many more. But those who conduct
      the cases for the opposite group can’t agree with this. They want to
      squeeze the Jacobites out of their churches. For that their Catholicose
      Mathews II is signing many cheques running to crores of rupess which he
      mentioned in his jubilee functions at Kottayam. (here he actually tried to
      get sympathy by saying so, but the common man understood who is the culprit)

      Like in the major case, the Simhasana churches are now forced to engage an
      advocate in SC to defend the case. This advocate may not be in par with
      Adv. Nariman of opposite group, but whatelse can we do with our limited
      resources. We can of course avoid defending, but what will then happen ?
      we will just loose all our Churches which our forefathers constructed.
      In many cases they have built churches after they have been thrown out
      of their parent churches. But now with the help of a very few parishioners,
      in most cases 4 or 5 in a Church of 1000 odd familes, the opposite group
      is creating problems and they are spending crores just to take control of
      the property of the poor Jacobites.

      My kind question to those who advice us to stop defending the cases in
      court is, Are there anyone who are ready to leave their home if one of
      their relatives make an unrealistic claim of the house. I don’t think
      anyone will simply give up their claim even if they loose their legal
      rights. They will continue to defend until their last. That is even by
      mortgaging all the other properties. The people, who create troubles,
      may sometimes seems to be successful with the help of crores of rupees,
      but this victory will not be the end of everything. It is just the
      beginning. Those who suffer the most will have the last say. I am
      confident in that. I believe that the God is always with those who
      suffers and not with those who spend crores of rupees.

      Koshy George
    • Thomas P
      I am writing this so that every one in our Church, both Orthodox and Jacobites, read this and reject any teaching that is against the teaching of Patriarch St.
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 3, 2003
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        I am writing this so that every one in our Church,
        both Orthodox and Jacobites, read this and reject any
        teaching that is against the teaching of Patriarch St.
        Severus. Then, the immediate thing to do is to unite
        on the basis of this faith.

        "That a church is a confession of right faith no one
        who is reckoned among Christians and has understanding
        doubts, since the Lord plainly said in the Gospels to
        the divine Peter, the first of the apostles, when he
        made the confession, Thou art Christ, the Son of the
        living God, Thou art Cephas, and upon this rock will I
        build my church, and the gates of Sheol shall not
        prevail against it; and he called the firmness and
        fixity of such a confession a rock. And, as speech
        knows a right and sound opinion on faith as a church,
        so it also knows the believers who confess it as a
        church." [St. Severus, Letter to the Holy Convents of
        Virgins of Christ]

        In Orthodox church Peter along with Paul is honored
        are firsts among Apostles. Peter, as the elder among
        them and Paul, because of his hardwork for the Church.
        But the Church does not use this as an opportunity to
        bring local churches under single administration.
        Regarding administration, Apostolic Canons (Canon
        Slihe) mandates the unity of the church, the bishops
        in "each Nation" under one head bishop.

        Few things to notice from the words of St. Severus:

        - that "a Church is a confession of right faith"

        - that "He called the firmness and fixity of such a
        confession a rock"

        - that "as speech knows a right and sound opinion on
        faith as a Church, so it also knows the believers who
        confess it as a Church."

        In clear words St. Severus teaches that the "firmness
        and fixity of confession" is the Rock.

        Based on this, those who teach that the person of
        Peter is the Rock is teaching a wrong faith, a faith
        different from St. Severus.

        Pope Shenouda also explains that the faith of
        confession is the Rock upon which the Church is found.
        ------------------------------------------------------------

        Thomas P
      • Aji Thomas David
        Dear sister susan Thanks for the new thread Nisha Sharma had her 15 seconds of fame! In India she can extend that to 15 years or even more. As long as there
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 4, 2003
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          Dear sister susan

          Thanks for the new thread

          Nisha Sharma had her 15 seconds of fame!
          In India she can extend that to 15 years or even more.
          As long as there are are arranged marriages dowry has to be
          part of it.

          In Muslim community they give money to the girl's family.

          For Hindus and Christians who have arranged marriages, the dowry
          system works like this:

          For no dowry, one can find a bum for their daughter - he may even
          live in the bride's house.

          For one lakh rupees you can probably find a daily laborer
          For 10 lakh rupees you can find a white collar employee.
          For 25 lakh rupees you can find a professional.
          For 1 crore rupees you can find an IAS officer - or more.
          SO GET OVER WITH IT.

          In Christ
          Aji Thomas David


          --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Susan Jose wrote:
          > Friends,
          >
          > Dowery system has its good and bad side. Under christian law a
          girl has no
          > rights to her parents property after the marriage.(unless she go
          through the
          > court) So it is good to give her fair share of her parents wealth
          at the
          > time of marriage.
          >
          > The bad side is that people get greedy and try to squeze dowery
          beyond
          > other's ability to pay.
          >
          > Your comments please.
          >
          > In Christ
          > Susan Jose
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