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The Sound of the Spirit

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  • Reji
    The Sound of the Spirit Listen! Can You Hear It? Open your ears, and I shall speak to you. Give Me yourself, so that I may also give you Myself. (The Book of
    Message 1 of 13 , May 24 11:32 PM
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      The Sound of the Spirit

      Listen! Can You Hear It?

      Open your ears, and I shall speak to you. Give Me yourself, so that I
      may also give you Myself. (The Book of the Odes, 9: 1-2)

      His Sweet Voice Calling Out To Us

      "God so wishes us to return to Him that He keeps calling to us again
      and again to approach Him. It is due to His sweet holy Voice that
      our soul is lost in ecstasy and surrenders totally to His will".

      -- Saint Teresa of Avila

      Angelic Music That Astonishes All Who Hear It

      "....with sweet voice, with sweet and incessant voice and various
      singing, which it is impossible to describe, and which astonishes
      every mind, so wonderful and marvellous is the singing of those
      angels, and I was delighted listening to it". (2nd Enoch)

      The Song of the Angels

      I think that no soul may truly feel the angel's song or heavenly
      Sound, unless it is in perfect love, though not all that are in
      perfect love have felt it, but only the soul that is so purified in
      the fire of love that all earthly savor is burned out of it, and all
      obstacles between the soul and the cleanness of angels are broken and
      put away from it. Then truly may he sing a new song, and truly may he
      hear a blessed heavenly Sound, and angel's song, without deceit or
      feigning. Our Lord knows the soul that, for abundance of burning
      love, is worthy to hear angel's song.

      -- Walter Hilton, "The Song of Angels,"

      The Harp of the Spirit

      "As the wind glides through the harp and the strings speak,
      So the Spirit of the Lord speaks through my members, and I speak
      through His love". (The Book of the Odes, 6: 1-2)

      Hearing the Spirit

      I heard a noise like wind blowing in my ears
      and knew it for the Sound of the Holy Spirit
      which became like the voice of a dove.

      When the Lord spoke to me I lost all sense
      of time. I did not know if he was with me
      five or six hours or only one. It was so
      holy and full of grace that I felt as if
      I had been in heaven.

      -- Margery Kempe, The Mirror of Love, Morehouse Publishing
    • Thomas Daniel
      This is a saying of Jesus from an unknown gospel fragment written in the Sahidic language, found in Egypt. ( Texts and Studies, Volume Four, Coptic Apocryphal
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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        This is a saying of Jesus from an unknown gospel fragment
        written in the Sahidic language, found in Egypt. ("Texts
        and Studies," Volume Four, Coptic Apocryphal Gospels
        section, Kraus Reprints):

        Nothing is impossible unto you in the removal of the
        mountains.

        Now therefore have faith in the love of My Father.
        _________________________________________________________

        Infinite Expansion of Spirit

        Life in the dimension of Spirit is a mystery rooted in the
        joy of being.

        The wonderful beauty of prayer is that the opening of our
        heart is as natural as the opening of a flower. To let a
        flower open and bloom it is only necessary to let it be,
        so if we simply ARE, if we become and remain still and
        silent, our heart cannot but be open, the Spirit cannot
        but pour through into our whole being. It is this we have
        been created for.

        Our meditation teaches us that we have to put our whole
        heart into this work of the Spirit if we are genuinely to
        respond to the call to leave the shallows and enter into
        the deep, direct knowledge that marks a life lived in the
        Mystery of God.

        The call of Jesus is to worship God who is Spirit
        'in Spirit and in Truth.'

        These words of Jesus which we have perhaps listened to as
        an injunction should now be heard as a declaration of
        liberty.

        Above all, know from your own heart, from your own
        experience, that you were created for infinite expansion
        of spirit. Every act of faith is a step into the
        infinite expansion of God.

        -- John Main
      • Koshy George
        Dear Aley John and others, Your concern on all the points raised seems to be very relevant. It is true that we are spending crores of rupees for cases. You
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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          Dear Aley John and others,

          Your concern on all the points raised seems to be very relevant.
          It is true that we are spending crores of rupees for cases. You
          have rightly pointed it too. But the problem with many persons
          is that they are only seeing one side of the coin.

          The Jacobites are a people who are defending for their existence.
          Some may think that since we are all Christians we must always take
          a policy to avoid issues even by giving up everything. Being a human
          being I can’t always agree with that. Take the case of Kunnamkulam
          Arthat Simhasana church. It was built by Saintly Sleeba Mar Osthathios
          Bava in a land donated to the Holy See by a group of people who found
          it difficult to carry on their daily Spiritual needs in their parent
          church. Bava’s silent prayers helped to construct a church there and
          he was buried here and for lakhs of people this is a Holy place. But
          after the farce unity of 1958, the opposite group started to create
          problems in that church by trying to bring it under the direct control
          of the Malankara Metropolitan who was also the Catholicos then.
          Former Catholicos Baselios Geevarghese II even dared to enter this
          Church inorder to take control of the Church and its properties. He
          was then accompanied by a strong police force against the kind request
          of the people who were members of that Church. The problems started
          at that time continues even now. At present while 1000 odd familes
          are Jacobites, there are only less than 13 who are siding with the
          opposite group. Moreoever there are 2 large Churches and 5 small
          capels for the opposite group very near to this Simhasana Church.
          (The main Church which is in total control of opposite group is
          just 1/2 a kilometer away from the Simhasana Church) While most
          of the opposite group have no objection in stopping the cases against
          the Jacobites it is the very who are in the leadership of opposite
          group who are continuing with the cases. While all including those
          in opposite group call the Church as ‘Bava’s Pally’ or Simhasana Church,
          the very few in methran faction call it Arthat ‘Puthen pally’ with the
          intention to mix it with the IOC churches. Malayala Manorama is the
          group which helps to propogate this usage by giving the name of the
          Church as Arthat ‘Puthen Pally’ in their Calendars published every year.

          I have expressed so much to point out the malefic intentions of the
          opposite group. Now they have filed another case in Supreme Court
          against even the Simhasana Churches claiming that there are no such
          Churches in Malankara. Every other persons knows that there are many
          Simhasana Churches like Majanikkara, Perumpally, Soonoro at Ekm.,
          Kottayam, Kunnamkulam, Malecurisu and many more. But those who conduct
          the cases for the opposite group can’t agree with this. They want to
          squeeze the Jacobites out of their churches. For that their Catholicose
          Mathews II is signing many cheques running to crores of rupess which he
          mentioned in his jubilee functions at Kottayam. (here he actually tried to
          get sympathy by saying so, but the common man understood who is the culprit)

          Like in the major case, the Simhasana churches are now forced to engage an
          advocate in SC to defend the case. This advocate may not be in par with
          Adv. Nariman of opposite group, but whatelse can we do with our limited
          resources. We can of course avoid defending, but what will then happen ?
          we will just loose all our Churches which our forefathers constructed.
          In many cases they have built churches after they have been thrown out
          of their parent churches. But now with the help of a very few parishioners,
          in most cases 4 or 5 in a Church of 1000 odd familes, the opposite group
          is creating problems and they are spending crores just to take control of
          the property of the poor Jacobites.

          My kind question to those who advice us to stop defending the cases in
          court is, Are there anyone who are ready to leave their home if one of
          their relatives make an unrealistic claim of the house. I don’t think
          anyone will simply give up their claim even if they loose their legal
          rights. They will continue to defend until their last. That is even by
          mortgaging all the other properties. The people, who create troubles,
          may sometimes seems to be successful with the help of crores of rupees,
          but this victory will not be the end of everything. It is just the
          beginning. Those who suffer the most will have the last say. I am
          confident in that. I believe that the God is always with those who
          suffers and not with those who spend crores of rupees.

          Koshy George
        • Abin George Kuriakose
          hello Aley John, i read ur letter, i am very much thanks towards u.because u taught me more to pray.u said more about commonsense, but one thing is to remember
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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            hello Aley John,
            i read ur letter, i am very much thanks towards u.because u
            taught me more to pray.u said more about commonsense, but one
            thing is to remember human being's commonsense can't overcome
            God's "commonsense".

            one think to remember don't mix faith with other like politics and
            other relations. holy father Yakoob 3rd only ordered don't
            participate in the sacraments(koodasakal) of any vedavipareethical
            not say about human, business and other relations. why u think
            like this?

            u understand the syrian fathers are not "mad" with church and not
            kill any one who aganist them but they only keep the holy faith
            and ready to die for that. to save their soul and others. no one
            make any pressure to change the only fact is If any one believe
            and he/she needs then they can enter into the church other wise
            not.

            u think i am "mad" with church. don't think like this. i am a
            faithful believer and do my duties towards church. i have many
            friends in different religions and different churches. i visited
            the houses of some of them also.did u read mar yeldho bava's
            history. bava wanted the nambootiri to direct him to a church. he
            helped bava.then what happened? he understood bava is a saint, by
            bava's activites.through that he believe bava and he said about
            his sisters pain and so and so.(not explain in detail.)
            here what is to understand ? a good follower's duty. through faith
            bava make him a believer.

            again u think i am shouting everybody who are aganist our
            church.??? , i am at piravom BPC college(our college)
            i have many friends there. also at the hostel we are from
            different religions. also from different churches.but any way i
            can't raised any question or anything about their or our church to
            them.

            but one thing i prayed to God morn and eve. some of our church
            members met me and discuss about our church and faith but others
            don't know about this discussions.

            one day an indian orthodox member came to room and shout this
            that so and so. at the begining i don't say any word. some of our
            church faithfuls try to protest. after his shouting i took the
            holy bible and wants him to read some portions. he reject then i ask 1
            question and said some important statements only. he can't able to
            answer and he left the room. u say who make problems?? who violate
            disipline and decency????

            i cut my class and attended the puthencruz meeting. after i
            reached college many of our faitfuls shouted at me why i didn't
            took permission from principal and took them also. i asked them if
            any one is interested he must participate his own risk. if it take
            as a college issue that may make problems in college.(rumers or
            some other) any way. after that some of the opposite faction
            members came and shout they will caught all parishes and never allow
            yours dead body to burry so and so. i only told u can't do any thing
            upon our church.

            whatever happens i am not ready to move from Holy ANTIOCH.
            also i told to them u follow ur faith and allow others to follow
            their way.

            u say my decision or their is correct?? who is making problem???

            after 9 pm. one of the fellow came into my room and said "i don't
            know what is the real history behind this problems??? please tell
            me what happened?" only at that time i opened my mouth to explain
            the faith to an oppossion member.(the time he wants to know) atlast
            he said their party is doing wrong. i think this is the commonsense
            not mine but God's activity.

            u say abt marriage and other needs commonsense. but if God's
            activites can destroy this plan(from commonsense)then what is the use.
            now i don't write in more detail. any way we can see the next.....

            another incident i was at rajagiri college at hostel we 2 guys
            from Jacobite and 1 from "indian church" and then hindus
            muslims and so. we have psycology classes and NLP classes there.
            so i can understand ur mind. but don't think ur way in faith is
            correct(commonsense).don't try to mix decisions from commonsense
            and faith.keep the faith is the commonsense here. we 2 discuss abt
            the church matters so and so. and we don't discuss it as a public
            matter. At that time our H.B thomas1 catholicose was ordained and
            reached here from ANTIOCH. the indian orhodox man is waiting for
            a word from us. but we didn't say anything to him. one day "indian
            church" man to our faithful told some thing about our catholicose.
            he replied if u are like this i did't allow this to continue.
            so we don't discuss the church matters. he left him. next day he
            met me. he told to me ur bava is this that so and so. i also replied
            if u continue i wouldn't allow. we have to live together in the same
            hostel. so he left me.

            we have 10 day NSS camp at koratty. at the 7 th day he called some
            of the girls of our church and told them something u are like this
            that so and so. some of my friends from RC informed me that fellow
            is brainwashing some Jacobite girls. when i heard this news i
            reached there. At that time he stopped his work. i simply asked
            what u are doing? he say oh talking. our girls told me all the
            things. i sat there and said if u are ready we can discuss. he
            say ok at that time our other faithful also reached. he told he wants
            to start. i asked u start, at that time i am teaching our girls abt
            the faith. he started the discussion with the "indian church" man
            and i taught our girls. after sometimes that "indian church"
            fellow has no words to talk. then i also entered into the dicussion.
            i raised some statements and asked 1 que only he has no word to
            answer. at that time all our girls, some of RC guys and girls laughed
            at him and they understood what is the matter of their church and their
            activities. the next day itself news abt brainwashing spread.

            u tell who is wrong??? we explain only the faith and no more.
            the next day some of the RC sisters met me and wanted to told
            them the real faith. and the problems in the church case?
            i explained. i also include now jacobite and RC joined by
            discussion b/t the patriarchs of these 2 churches.
            after this Jacobites got a good image there - a deciplined and
            desencent group and the other have a worst.

            where the commonsense??? only god's activities succeded.
            don't proud about your own commonsense. if god is willing we can
            see the next... it is a sure matter if not confess. god doesn't
            leave his bride

            -Holy church. Jesus Christ words are the faith of our church. lord
            built only one church that is on St. Peter. the all others are
            duplicates and not by Jesus Christ. these duplicates never exist.
            their aim is to redirect all from entering from the church of our
            LORD by making confusions. same dress, same prayers and so. they
            are the real anti-christ, anti-christians, anti-church, anti-profects.
            (kalla christu, kalla pravachakanmar).jesus said at the end kalla
            kristukalum kalla pravachkanmarum will come, and trying to make wrong.
            god reveals u the meaning.

            with prayers
            abin
          • Susan Jose
            Friends, Dowery system has its good and bad side. Under christian law a girl has no rights to her parents property after the marriage.(unless she go through
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 2, 2003
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              Friends,

              Dowery system has its good and bad side. Under christian law a girl has no
              rights to her parents property after the marriage.(unless she go through the
              court) So it is good to give her fair share of her parents wealth at the
              time of marriage.

              The bad side is that people get greedy and try to squeze dowery beyond
              other's ability to pay.

              Your comments please.

              In Christ
              Susan Jose

              -------------------------------------------------------------------
              http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3027683.stm

              Nisha Sharma's case has attracted worldwide attention.

              Dowry demand lands groom in jail

              A bride who got the police to arrest her bridegroom has become something of
              a celebrity in India.

              Nisha Sharma, 21, called the police after her father was asked for more
              dowry money just minutes before her wedding ceremony.

              The custom of dowry is outlawed in India although it is still widely
              practised.

              Her plucky decision has won widespread media coverage and she says she has
              received offers of marriage from men who support her courage.

              Ms Sharma's call to the police took place after her brother warned her that
              a scuffle had broken out between the two families.

              He told her that the groom had assaulted her father and asked for some
              $25,000 in cash as dowry.

              The groom has since been arrested and the police are looking for other
              members of the family who are missing.

              The giving and accepting of dowry is a punishable offence in India and can
              lead to imprisonment

              Media star

              Nisha Sharma's action has got her widespread media attention, with the
              front-pages of most national dailies featuring her story.

              A radio show in Delhi, carrying a long interview with her, has presented her
              as a role model for other young women in distress.

              Her house in a sprawling Delhi suburb is buzzing with visitors - a great
              many from the media but also women activists, neighbours and other well
              wishers who want to congratulate her.

              Inside her house, she sits on the floor surrounded by people patiently
              queuing up to speak to her in person.

              Despite the attention, she says she is proud of what she has done.

              "It has robbed me of my voice - all this constant re-telling of my story -
              but I am loving every second of it because I do believe it is something
              young girls and women in general need to know about," she tells the BBC.

              Her mother and aunt who sit close by protectively nod in agreement

              Nisha says she has received several letters from prospective suitors who say
              they would be honoured to marry her because she has been so brave.

              She is also reported to have been approached by one political party which
              wants her to stand as its representative in state elections.

              But she brushes off both offers lightly.

              She says she is happy to have got out of an ugly situation and that all she
              can think of at the moment is completing her graduation.
            • Dr.GeorgeK John
              Dear Mr.Paul, thank you for correcting me. i wrote my feelings not as a schollar of the church. i am not even a noted member of the church. none in the parish
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 2, 2003
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                Dear Mr.Paul,
                thank you for correcting me. i wrote my feelings not
                as a schollar of the church. i am not even a noted
                member of the church. none in the parish where i
                attend the holy querbana knows me.
                what i mentioned was the commandments Jesus gave to
                us.
                1 love your God
                2 love your neibhour

                i just clubed them as it was concentrated on Love. as
                i understood the God He is Love.

                we have no Love but what we have is the negative
                expression of love.

                i hope it is clear to you. i donot want to make any
                contraversy on the subject. you may post a correct
                direction.

                i love all

                with love
                Dr.George, Dubai

                >Really? How do you know? Please show that to me that LOVE
                >is the only commandment. My understanding is that LOVE is
                >one of the commandments.

                paul
              • Fr.George Mathew Nalunnakkal
                Dear friends: Mariam has become an angel! God called her back to eternal rest. She breathed her last on Saturday and was buried yesterday. We want to once
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 3, 2003
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                  Dear friends:

                  Mariam has become an angel! God called her back to eternal rest. She
                  breathed her last on Saturday and was buried yesterday. We want to
                  once again thank you all for your solidarity in our grief through your
                  prayers. Let me assure you that it has been a great source of peace and
                  comfort for all of us. Please do continue to pray for her soul and for
                  the berieved family.

                  May all of us experience the great power of the Holy Spirit as we prepare
                  ourselves for the Pentecost

                  God bless
                  Fr.George Mathew Nalunnakkal
                  ---------------------------------------------------
                  from the desk of Moderators

                  Dear George Achan
                  Our heartfelt condolence is conveyed to the bereaved
                  family of the little Angel, for and on behalf of the entire SOCM
                  family.
                • Fr.Joy Paulose
                  Dear forum participants, I would like to have your heads up. I am about to filter SOCM mail to my junk mail box. At the time of the emergence of this forum, I
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 3, 2003
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                    Dear forum participants,

                    I would like to have your heads up. I am about to filter SOCM mail to
                    my junk mail box. At the time of the emergence of this forum, I
                    anticipated that this forum would be a great effort to bring up very
                    healthy and informative discussion on the topics of common interest
                    based on Church issues and social problems associated with Church or,
                    of theology, bible, such more in that discipline, and current hot
                    topics.

                    Unfortunately, I have seen several uncomfortable postings.
                    Some of them have been harassing other people by addressing them
                    without giving proper respect ( generally accepted ). If someone
                    receives a title, he should be addressed with that title. It does not
                    mean that we accept what they claim with that title. But it does mean
                    we respect other people. It is christian and divine, isn't it? I have
                    a humble request on this regard, please avoid using the words on the
                    street on a world wide web virtual media like this.

                    Some article focuses on good topic and reveals good point. However,
                    using uncomfortable words could cause for a reverse effect on the
                    article and valid point the writer intends to disclose.

                    Secondly, I have noticed several reports and circulars from Sunday
                    School and churches posted here in this forum one after another. If
                    all the Sunday schools and churches post their reports and `perunnal'
                    notice on this forum, who will read it and what the response would
                    be. Can you imagine? Here is a suggestion. If they want to circulate
                    any information or report, please set up a group for that purpose
                    that should be constrained to the relevant area.

                    I hope the moderator should censor the articles before posting them
                    on the forum.

                    Thanks
                    with love,
                    Joy Achen
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------
                    From the desk of the moderators

                    We thank you for your valuable comments and interest on our postings. We do
                    hope our members will take his suggestions in good spirit and follow it for
                    the good of our Church & Forum
                  • Marksadek
                    Christ Is Risen! Truly He Is Risen! [Christ] is baptized not as Himself requiring purification but as making my purification His own, that He may break the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jun 3, 2003
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                      Christ Is Risen! Truly He Is Risen!

                      "[Christ] is baptized not as Himself requiring purification but as making my
                      purification His own, that He may break the heads of the dragons on the water,
                      that He may wash away sin and bury all the old Adam in water, that He may
                      sanctify the Baptist, that He may fulfill the Law, that He may reveal the mystery
                      of the Trinity, that He may become the type and example to us of baptism. But
                      we, too, are baptized in the perfect baptism of our Lord, the baptism by
                      water and the Spirit."

                                      St. John of Damaskos.

                      --------------------------------------------------

                      "Show Your marvelous lovingkindness by Your right hand, O You who save those
                      who trust in You From those who rise up against them." Psalm 17:7

                      --------------------------------------------------

                      Prayer Requests:

                      Please remember Peter Demian in your prayers. Peter remains in critical
                      condition following the tragedy that took the lives of 5 Coptic youth in California.

                      Please remember in your prayers the 5 Coptic youth that have lost their lives
                      in a car accident on their way to St. Anthony Monastery in California. Also,
                      please remember those who were injured and the families in your prayers.

                      Please remember me in your prayers.
                      Please remember the following in your prayers:
                      Esther - Intestinal problems
                      Hakim Shahata - Critical condition in a coma at the hospital.
                      Nick Sarris - Will be undergoing a serious and complicated surgery for cancer
                      this Friday, May 2nd. Nick is scheduled to start chemotherapy and radiation
                      treatments over the next 6 months.
                      Fr. Augustine - Cancer in his leg and may need to have an amputation. God has
                      allowed Father Augustine a successful operation without the need for
                      amputation.
                      Sue S. - Advanced Cancer
                      Duff H.- Infection. He has recovered :)
                      Mina Aziz - Cancer
                      Helen P. - severe depression and diabetes.
                      Pamela P. - chronic depression and financial difficulties.
                      Caroline Kamal and her family - Caroline recently lost her father.
                      Shafika Guirgis - kidney failure
                      Mary Beth - Obesity & Diabetes
                      Jean Dallin - Neurological back problems
                      Therese - Emotional problems
                      Ryan - Behavioral problems. Little Ryan is possibly going back into
                      mainstream school.
                      Reggie - Cancer
                      Detra - Stress related health problems
                      Walter Jr. - Cancer. Walter is doing well with the chemotherapy and radiation
                      treatments.
                      Walter Sr. - Depression.
                      Denise I. - Breast Cancer.
                      Barbara - Depression & legal & financial problems.
                      Helen - Multiple health problems & depression.
                      Please pray for Madeline who has metastatic breast cancer.
                      Please pray for Cuba Plain who has cancer that is high up in the breast. She
                      is a mother of 3, ages 15, 12, and 7.
                      Please pray for Gabrielle Brewer who is pregnant with a potentially serious,
                      life-threatening illness for the developing baby.
                      Please remember Jessica in your prayers. Jessica is 15 years old suffering
                      from brain cancer.
                      Please remember Daniel who is 14 years old and has cancer in your prayers.
                      Daniel is in a serious condition and is getting very weak. He is the only child
                      to his parents. Because of your prayers, Daniel is responding well to his
                      medication and is getting better both physically and psychologically. Please
                      continue to pray for him and his family as they lost his mother unexpectedly.
                      Please remember Suzanne Hanna in your prayers.
                      Please remember Shwaki Ghobrial in your prayers.
                      Please remember Zouhair Macktaby in your prayers. Zouhair is suffering from
                      stomach cancer.
                      Please remember Hanan Shawki in your prayers. Hanan has a brain tumor and she
                      is a mother of two young Kids. Because of your prayers, Hanan is doing much
                      better.
                      Please remember Magdy Wadi in your prayers. Magdy has a brain tumor.
                      Please remember John Rittel in your prayers. John has cancer of the lymph
                      node and voice box.
                      Please remember Ibtesam Hweamel in your prayers.
                      Please remember our brother John in your prayers. John had a brain tumor
                      removed recently. He is a young servant with 4 young kids. John is getting better.
                      Please pray for Eugene Boulis, for completion of immigration procedures and
                      securing a job.
                      Please pray for the unemployed to find jobs.

                      Please pray for the peace of the world.

                      "casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7
                    • Thomas P
                      I am writing this so that every one in our Church, both Orthodox and Jacobites, read this and reject any teaching that is against the teaching of Patriarch St.
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jun 3, 2003
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                        I am writing this so that every one in our Church,
                        both Orthodox and Jacobites, read this and reject any
                        teaching that is against the teaching of Patriarch St.
                        Severus. Then, the immediate thing to do is to unite
                        on the basis of this faith.

                        "That a church is a confession of right faith no one
                        who is reckoned among Christians and has understanding
                        doubts, since the Lord plainly said in the Gospels to
                        the divine Peter, the first of the apostles, when he
                        made the confession, Thou art Christ, the Son of the
                        living God, Thou art Cephas, and upon this rock will I
                        build my church, and the gates of Sheol shall not
                        prevail against it; and he called the firmness and
                        fixity of such a confession a rock. And, as speech
                        knows a right and sound opinion on faith as a church,
                        so it also knows the believers who confess it as a
                        church." [St. Severus, Letter to the Holy Convents of
                        Virgins of Christ]

                        In Orthodox church Peter along with Paul is honored
                        are firsts among Apostles. Peter, as the elder among
                        them and Paul, because of his hardwork for the Church.
                        But the Church does not use this as an opportunity to
                        bring local churches under single administration.
                        Regarding administration, Apostolic Canons (Canon
                        Slihe) mandates the unity of the church, the bishops
                        in "each Nation" under one head bishop.

                        Few things to notice from the words of St. Severus:

                        - that "a Church is a confession of right faith"

                        - that "He called the firmness and fixity of such a
                        confession a rock"

                        - that "as speech knows a right and sound opinion on
                        faith as a Church, so it also knows the believers who
                        confess it as a Church."

                        In clear words St. Severus teaches that the "firmness
                        and fixity of confession" is the Rock.

                        Based on this, those who teach that the person of
                        Peter is the Rock is teaching a wrong faith, a faith
                        different from St. Severus.

                        Pope Shenouda also explains that the faith of
                        confession is the Rock upon which the Church is found.
                        ------------------------------------------------------------

                        Thomas P
                      • Aji Thomas David
                        Dear sister susan Thanks for the new thread Nisha Sharma had her 15 seconds of fame! In India she can extend that to 15 years or even more. As long as there
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jun 4, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Dear sister susan

                          Thanks for the new thread

                          Nisha Sharma had her 15 seconds of fame!
                          In India she can extend that to 15 years or even more.
                          As long as there are are arranged marriages dowry has to be
                          part of it.

                          In Muslim community they give money to the girl's family.

                          For Hindus and Christians who have arranged marriages, the dowry
                          system works like this:

                          For no dowry, one can find a bum for their daughter - he may even
                          live in the bride's house.

                          For one lakh rupees you can probably find a daily laborer
                          For 10 lakh rupees you can find a white collar employee.
                          For 25 lakh rupees you can find a professional.
                          For 1 crore rupees you can find an IAS officer - or more.
                          SO GET OVER WITH IT.

                          In Christ
                          Aji Thomas David


                          --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Susan Jose wrote:
                          > Friends,
                          >
                          > Dowery system has its good and bad side. Under christian law a
                          girl has no
                          > rights to her parents property after the marriage.(unless she go
                          through the
                          > court) So it is good to give her fair share of her parents wealth
                          at the
                          > time of marriage.
                          >
                          > The bad side is that people get greedy and try to squeze dowery
                          beyond
                          > other's ability to pay.
                          >
                          > Your comments please.
                          >
                          > In Christ
                          > Susan Jose
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