Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Humility is a virtue

Expand Messages
  • Vatachal Thomas John
    HB Catholicos Basalius Mor Thomas I puts under his signature his name as  Basalius Thomas Pradhaman Catholica with out HB, Mor or Bava.  HG Kuriakose Mor
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 4, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      HB Catholicos Basalius Mor Thomas I puts under his signature his name as " Basalius Thomas Pradhaman Catholica " with out HB, Mor or Bava.  HG Kuriakose Mor Theophilos Metropolitan puts under his signature his name as "Abhi. Kuriakos Mor Theophilos Metropolitan."  ( I have my own objections against using the short form " Abhi "  for Abhivandya  and the short form " Pari"  for Parisudha. Has anybody the courage to write Pari. Rooha or Pari.Athmav to refer to  Rooho Khadeeso and sin against the Rooho Khadeeso.?  That is besides the point)  I am raising now.the question whether our metropolitans can use Abhi. & , Mor along with their names just as H H Moran Mar Catholicos of the IO Church  calls himself Moran and the priests of some of the Churches and protestant groups use the title Rev. as they do not like to be called  by the common name father perhaps on the basis of our Lord`s injection against being called "father" 
       
      V T John,
      vtjohn100@...
      ID 3085
    • Zach
      Paramu belonged to a supposedly lower caste. Some of his subordinates at his workplace belonged to the upper caste. Gradually he developed an inferiority
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 6, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Paramu belonged to a supposedly "lower" caste. Some of his subordinates at his workplace belonged to the "upper" caste. Gradually he developed an inferiority complex and felt that they weren't properly respectful to him. Paramu thought hard and long on how to resolve this issue and finally he struck gold. Payback time! Some official forms and gazette notification later, he was officially named `Thampuran' (lord) Paramu.
        It is Paramu who I think of when I see a self-styled Sri Sri Sri or in this case, a `Abhivandya'.

        I would like to thank Shri V T John for pointing out this issue. Not only the Catholicose of India, but prelates all over the world drop honorific styles when they're signing their letters. For instance HH the current Pope of Roman Catholic Church signs his pastoral letters as BENEDICTUS PP. XVI where, PP is the abbreviated form of Papa.

        I don't intend to link humility with their style of signature nevertheless I hope the ecclesiastics change their style lest they be mistaken by some for beating their own drum.

        Submitted by
        Zach George Arapura
        Member# 3083
      • Eldo Cherian
        Good point. Humility and a simple monastic life is definitely appreciated by all. However, the pleasures of worldly life are tempting monastics & priests not
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 7, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Good point. Humility and a simple monastic life is definitely appreciated by all.

          However, the pleasures of worldly life are tempting monastics & priests not just us laity. Humility in emails is just a small part.

          A few examples where wasteful expenditure could be limited and the funds channeled to better use:

          a.. Latest Luxury cars like Mercedes Benz, XUV500 etc....many of them get it as soon as it is released!

          a.1. Poor people in Kerala/India even in this 21st century walk miles to get to a city.

          b. Many Bishop's house (Aramana) with such luxurious bedrooms that even a hotel suite in a 5-star hotel will be put to shame.

          1.Have we seen people having a home with 4 sticks and a plastic sheet to protect them from the elements?
          2. Power and Fame Is that what we stand for? Most problems in our churches and the sabha as a whole have stemmed from this.

          3. Clothing Most expensive Kaapas and cassocks in silk.
          3.1. Have we seen monks/priests wearing torn cassocks and only 1 very old Kaapa?

          4. Churches and structures being built using crores of rupees when the original church was in very good shape.
          4.1 Do we know there are many churches for example in idukki district that do not even have proper walls?

          The idea of Christian monks historically is based on the Gospel accounts of the lives of Jesus Christ and the Apostles (and also influenced by the lives of the Old Testament Prophets). The ultimate inspiration, however, is the life of Christ. Our Lord's example is of a life wholly dedicated to God, bathed in prayer and Bible study, teaching, preaching, and including spiritual disciplines like fasting and Scripture memorization.

          I'm not worthy enough to criticize monastics, however as common people we desire to see our shepherds / monastics who guide us to live a model life that we can look up to.

          Apologies if I have touched any wrong chords.

          Thanks
          Eldo
          #4164
        • Leena
          My humble thoughts about this subject GOOD POINT. HUMILITY AND A SIMPLE MONASTIC LIFE IS DEFINITELY APPRECIATED BY ALL. HOWEVER, THE PLEASURES OF WORLDLY LIFE
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 12, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            My humble thoughts about this subject
            GOOD POINT. HUMILITY AND A SIMPLE MONASTIC LIFE IS DEFINITELY APPRECIATED BY
            ALL.

            HOWEVER, THE PLEASURES OF WORLDLY LIFE ARE TEMPTING MONASTICS & PRIESTS NOT JUST
            US LAITY. HUMILITY IN EMAILS IS JUST A SMALL PART.

            A FEW EXAMPLES WHERE WASTEFUL EXPENDITURE COULD BE LIMITED AND THE FUNDS
            CHANNELED TO BETTER USE:

            A.. LATEST LUXURY CARS LIKE MERCEDES BENZ, XUV500 ETC....MANY OF THEM GET IT AS
            SOON AS IT IS RELEASED!

            A.1. POOR PEOPLE IN KERALA/INDIA EVEN IN THIS 21ST CENTURY WALK MILES TO GET TO
            A CITY.
            We cannot generalize the above things. We must consider the age, physical health and the amount of travel of the person.

            B. MANY BISHOP'S HOUSE (ARAMANA) WITH SUCH LUXURIOUS BEDROOMS THAT EVEN A HOTEL
            SUITE IN A 5-STAR HOTEL WILL BE PUT TO SHAME.
            I do not know about all aramanas. I spent one night in Patriarch center. The rooms are very normal size and the food is very simple. When many of our Bishops take charge of some Diocese, they didn't have an aramana itself. Why are we not talking about it? Did we take any time to think about the sacrifices they make building this church; which we are not even ready to think about? It is easy to criticize others. What about our houses? Is it just enough for our necessities?
            1.HAVE WE SEEN PEOPLE HAVING A HOME WITH 4 STICKS AND A PLASTIC SHEET TO PROTECT
            THEM FROM THE ELEMENTS?
            Are we ready to live in such houses? Before criticizing others we must be an example.

            2. POWER AND FAME IS THAT WHAT WE STAND FOR? MOST PROBLEMS IN OUR CHURCHES AND
            THE SABHA AS A WHOLE HAVE STEMMED FROM THIS.
            Not in our church. That is why we are only prathigal not vathigal.
            3. CLOTHING MOST EXPENSIVE KAAPAS AND CASSOCKS IN SILK.
            3.1. HAVE WE SEEN MONKS/PRIESTS WEARING TORN CASSOCKS AND ONLY 1 VERY OLD KAAPA?
            How many dresses do we have? How much money do we spend in our beauty parlors? Not only ladies even our men regularly visit beauty parlors.
            4. CHURCHES AND STRUCTURES BEING BUILT USING CRORES OF RUPEES WHEN THE ORIGINAL
            CHURCH WAS IN VERY GOOD SHAPE.
            How much money do we spend decorating our houses?
            4.1 DO WE KNOW THERE ARE MANY CHURCHES FOR EXAMPLE IN IDUKKI DISTRICT THAT DO
            NOT EVEN HAVE PROPER WALLS?
            Many wealthy churches are helping others in constructing their churches. Manarcad, North Paravur, Kothamangalam are some examples.
            THE IDEA OF CHRISTIAN MONKS HISTORICALLY IS BASED ON THE GOSPEL ACCOUNTS OF THE
            LIVES OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE APOSTLES (AND ALSO INFLUENCED BY THE LIVES OF THE
            OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS). THE ULTIMATE INSPIRATION, HOWEVER, IS THE LIFE OF
            CHRIST. OUR LORD'S EXAMPLE IS OF A LIFE WHOLLY DEDICATED TO GOD, BATHED IN
            PRAYER AND BIBLE STUDY, TEACHING, PREACHING, AND INCLUDING SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINES
            LIKE FASTING AND SCRIPTURE MEMORIZATION.

            How many of us are ready to go to Mamalasery and participate at least one day in their prarthana for
            their write for worship? How many of us are making an effort to learn about our church? Our prayers and its meaning. .? For that we blame our Sunday school curriculum. We refer books after books to improve our academic knowledge. Are we doing that to improve our knowledge about our faith? We forget that 10 % of everything including our time is for Yahova which we must be utilized for prayer, bible study, fasting and scripture memorization etc. This is meant not only for shepherds but for us too.
            The idea of CHRISTIAN MONKS historically is based on the gospel accounts of the lives of jesus christ and the apostles (and also influenced by the lives of the
            old testament prophets). the ultimate inspiration, however, is the life of
            christ. our lord's example is of a life wholly dedicated to god, bathed in
            prayer and bible study, teaching, preaching, and including spiritual disciplines
            like fasting and scripture memorization.
            The idea is of Christian life not CHRISTIAN MONKS
            I'M NOT WORTHY ENOUGH TO CRITICIZE MONASTICS, HOWEVER AS COMMON PEOPLE WE
            DESIRE TO SEE OUR SHEPHERDS / MONASTICS WHO GUIDE US TO LIVE A MODEL LIFE THAT
            WE CAN LOOK UP TO.
            We all think we have only the rights on our shepherds. We forget that we must do our duties to them in order to demand for rights.
            Are we holding them in our family prayer? in our personal prayer?
            In our daily prayers do we remember all our priests who are preparing for Holy Qurbana?
            Are we praying for the church daily?
            Are we praying to give them the wisdom to guide their sheep?
            Are we paying our priests properly to have a descent family life? All of us demand for a married priest as our vicar. I do agree that we have good reasons for it. But we are reluctant in giving them a descent salary. At the same time when our members go to new churches they do not mind to give their 10% to the pastor !!!!
            I feel that there are many questions to be asked to ourselves before criticizing.
            With prayers,
            Leena.
            4136
          • mathew
            Dear All, I didn t think twice to subscribe to the view expressed by Ms. Leena. Bishops are reflection of us or community or society. By becoming a bishop one
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 13, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear All,

              I didn't think twice to subscribe to the view expressed by Ms. Leena.
              Bishops are reflection of us or community or society. By becoming a bishop one does not separated from his society. So bishop is exactly what his community is. Though his call is to be different and role model, but be mindful bishop too is one among us.

              Change in attire may not change the person in bishop, who was moulded by the community to a good extent.

              Thanks and God Bless Us All.
              Mathew Chacko
              2382


              --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, "Leena" wrote:
              >
              > My humble thoughts about this subject
              > GOOD POINT. HUMILITY AND A SIMPLE MONASTIC LIFE IS DEFINITELY APPRECIATED BY
              > ALL.
              >
              > HOWEVER, THE PLEASURES OF WORLDLY LIFE ARE TEMPTING MONASTICS & PRIESTS NOT JUST
              > US LAITY. HUMILITY IN EMAILS IS JUST A SMALL PART.
              >
              > A FEW EXAMPLES WHERE WASTEFUL EXPENDITURE COULD BE LIMITED AND THE FUNDS
              > CHANNELED TO BETTER USE:
              >
            • dhinuus
              It also has to do with our practice of ordaining priests. H.H Peter IV had clearly said; we should not ordain un-married men who are not monks as priest. In
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 14, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                It also has to do with our practice of ordaining priests. H.H Peter IV had clearly said; we should not ordain un-married men who are not monks as priest. In other words before a person is ordained a priest; he should do one or the other:

                1) Join a Dayara (monastery) and be tonsured a monk
                2) Get married

                However we have a third category of priests in Malankara. We have unmarried priests who are not affiliated to any monastery and is not living as a monk. Then when that person is elected as a Bishop we quickly tonsure them as a monk and then ordain them a Bishop.

                So the reality is that those Bishops have never spent any time as a monk; and you cannot expect them to all of a sudden start living as monks.

                There is a reason why we have a tradition of selecting Bishops from among monks. But when we bypass that by selecting unmarried priests who are NOT monks and make them monks for a week and then ordain them a Bishop and expect them to act like monks; its not going to happen.

                So let's pray and act for a strong monastery (Dayro) movement and for more monks like Father Phinephas Ramban of Malekkurishu Dayra; and for men like those to be elevated to be Bishops.

                Mathew G M
                0929
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.