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Re: ORIENTAL CONSANGUINITY

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  • Daniel Thomas
    To all members An article from Rev. Fr. K.K. John, Vicar, St. Thomas Syrian Orthodox Church, Washington DC. In Our Lords Love Thomas Daniel
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 9 3:40 AM
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      To all members

      An article from Rev. Fr. K.K. John, Vicar, St. Thomas Syrian Orthodox
      Church, Washington DC.

      In Our Lords Love

      Thomas Daniel
      _________________________________________________________________________
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    • Daniel Thomas
      Dear Members Delhi is the capital of India, Trivandrum (Thiruvananthapuram) is the capital of Kerala. But you cannot say Trivandrum is capital of India. Same
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 10 12:58 AM
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        Dear Members

        Delhi is the capital of India, Trivandrum (Thiruvananthapuram) is
        the capital of Kerala. But you cannot say Trivandrum is capital of India.
        Same way St.Thomas was an emissary with carte blanche, he is only an
        Ambassador, not head of Government/Church, only a representative of church
        sent by St. Peter chief apostle to whom Jesus commanded Peter "U are ROCK",
        I will build my house on this ROCK, I give U keys of heaven. Hence St.Thomas
        has no signet or throne he is only a minister/governor of Throne of Antioch
        founded by St. Peter along other 11 disciples. Obedience is a virtue in
        spirituality, Jesus said 'a student is not above his teacher�, hence
        students (all Syrian bishops) should respect teacher (Christ and his
        disciple Patriarch of Antioch). Peter was first Patriarch of Antioch.

        Any person who has an attachment Syrian along his church has to understand
        he has/had some connection to Syrian church whether he accepts it or not.
        You cannot change your paternity whether you like it or not? Generally some
        bishops after learning Syriac, wearing Syrian priestly attire, getting every
        thing from Syrian Patriarchs wants to kick them off and rule Malankara as
        sole Leader. Patriarch is never interested in being leader of Syrians in
        India unless we accept and demand the same. Patriarch Peter III before
        drafting first constitution of Syrian orthodox Church in 1876 asked Kerala
        Syrians to sign a bond saying they like to keep loyalty to throne of Antioch
        at their self free will. Unlike pope a dictator (not a member of WCC)
        Patriarch gives absolute freedom to its people to choose. All Syrian
        patriarchs who came to India came at request of us especially during
        Portuguese persecution; unlike other church leaders they had spiritual
        powers too. All Syrian prophets sacrificed their lives and came by Sea to
        India, some even died showing Christ's love, which malayali bishop other
        than Parumala Thirumeni ordained by Patriarch had spiritual power or led a
        simple humble saintly life and payed tribute visiting Patriarch and
        Jerusalem.

        General public is ignorant about all this so they listen to bishops who have
        time only for their self-interest. There was a secretary of Malankara
        bishops� party whose mother refused to accept last sacraments from priest
        her son brought and insisted that she want it from priest ordained by
        patriarch of Antioch only. Patriarch never interferes in internal affairs of
        church; Indian President never interferes in internal affairs of
        administration.

        If somebody feels we are surrendering churches to Patriarch, they are free
        to go from Syrian church and establish Indian orthodox church, rather than
        taking all Patriarchal gifts teaching, prayer, Syrian names, dress, church,
        schools, Antiochian faith, goodwill etc.

        Some bishops brought an ex-patriarch (senile) from Syria and found Malankara
        Orthodox church initially and all people in Kunnamkulam used to call it
        'vachukettipattam'. Later reigning patriarch forgave them and issued new
        'pattaam' to them, once they got it after promising to end all subversive
        activities, these south malayali bishops again started subversive activities
        with support of some industrialist and parvenus. Parumala Thirumeni was
        patriarchal secretary ordained bishop by Patriarch Peter III, Parumala old
        church is named St peter also is fact that a "tree is known by its fruits�.
        Even Satan was an angel, Judas was a disciple of Jesus, hence there is no
        wonder if bishops betray patriarch and oppose even His Holiness visit to
        India or spread theory of Throne of St.Thomas etc...Christ himself warns of
        false prophets and not to quarrel in the name of disciples...

        I am loyal to Holy throne of Antioch for above reasons. Syrian Prophets are
        no doubt trustworthy and through sacrifice & Christ's love they have shown
        us by coming to poverty stuck India from Land of MILK and HONEY, and they
        have seen footsteps of Christ, we believe by seeing some of us, but they see
        all Biblical sites daily hence their faith should be little more, may be
        that�s why Parumala Thirumeni asked us to visit these sites to increase
        faith at least by seeing. 1000s martyrs of Syrian church are there in Syria
        died for their belief, can U show me 1 malayali Malankara Orthodox priest a
        martyr, NEVER U will find. Then why should I join subversion against Holy
        Throne Of Antioch. What Malankara bishop�s party has its own apart from what
        it has acquired from Patriarchs, not even 1 Prayer or saint or priestly name
        or dress. Slight differences are deliberately made now.

        Pope has only time for confession. "At least in spirituality there should
        not be any adulteration�, I think. I don�t know much about Thoziyoor church,
        Patriarch signed treaties forgiving Pope in 80s, as pope wanted it as both
        church were founded by St.Peter�s a competition Malankara bishops party who
        were refused by catholic church for cooperation because of subversion
        against St.Peter�s immediately signed treaties with some other Coptic
        church...

        With love

        BIBU PHILIP MATHEW


        _________________________________________________________________________
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      • thomas_pa1@yahoo.com
        ... Prophets are ... shown ... they ... they see ... may be ... increase ... Poverty stuck India!! Is that the general image you Western/ Middle-Eastern
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 15 8:40 AM
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          --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Daniel Thomas" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
          > Dear Members
          >
          > I am loyal to Holy throne of Antioch for above reasons. Syrian
          Prophets are
          > no doubt trustworthy and through sacrifice & Christ's love they have
          shown
          > us by coming to poverty stuck India from Land of MILK and HONEY, and
          they
          > have seen footsteps of Christ, we believe by seeing some of us, but
          they see
          > all Biblical sites daily hence their faith should be little more,
          may be
          > that's why Parumala Thirumeni asked us to visit these sites to
          increase
          > faith at least by seeing.

          Poverty stuck India!! Is that the general image you Western/
          Middle-Eastern Semitic people have about India??

          By the immense blessing of God, India from ancient times was
          a land rich in MILK, honey and spices. Middle eastern merchants
          came from their arrid lands to take these from India. Cows are
          abundant in India. Almost every home (including Christians)
          owns atleast one cow. How many Syrians owns a cow? or do they
          drink camel milk?? We consider it a blessing that we have
          enough food in our land (infact excess wheat and milk).

          Please don't get too emotional. No Eastern Orthodox Church or
          Oriental Orthodox (except the Syriac Orthodox which removed
          itself from Oriental Orthodox communion because of communion
          with Roman Catholics based on Petrine Supremacy theory) believes
          in Petrine Supremacy. In ancient writings the name of
          Syrian Patriarch is second only to that of Coptic Patriarch
          of Alexandria (the great defenders of Orthodox faith). The
          Syrian Church got the Orthodox faith from Alexandria. St. Jacob
          Burdana was ordained by an Alexandrian Patriarch. Thus the
          broken lineage of Anthioc was reinstated. Armenian Church
          was founded by St. Andrew, The Church of Constantinople was
          founded by St. Barthalomew. Similarly the Coptic Church
          was founded by St. Mark. All of these are true Christians
          acts. Their is no ethnic pride or arguments of Superiority
          here. Only the Syrian Church following Roman Catholic line
          of thinking preaches these false teachings against ignorant
          Indian Christians. This is NOT Christian in any way!

          Regarding liturgy, it is not proprietary intellectual property
          of a Church. Only the highly racial and ethnic "modern" Syrian
          church believes in this un-Christian way. The Ethiopian Liturgy
          is from the Alexandrian Coptic Church. Yet the Patriarchs of
          Alexandria does not claim any intellectual superiority over
          Ethiopians.

          > 1000s martyrs of Syrian church are there
          in Syria
          > died for their belief, can U show me 1 malayali Malankara Orthodox
          priest a
          > martyr, NEVER U will find. Then why should I join subversion against
          Holy
          > Throne Of Antioch. What Malankara bishop's party has its own apart
          from what
          > it has acquired from Patriarchs, not even 1 Prayer or saint or
          priestly name
          > or dress. Slight differences are deliberately made now.

          The dress used by Syrian bishops originates from Alexandria.
          The head cover with 13 crosses it was traditionally used by
          Egyptian dessert fathers. Ancient Syrian attire was more close
          to modern Assyrian attire. Observe the Icons/image of St. Issac the
          Syrian, Canayi Thoma etc.

          Can you answer who murdered the secretary of Vattasheril Thirumeni?
          Please don't pretent to be clean people. Is is not very difficult
          to understand the desire of Thomas Mar Athanasius and the people
          who support him. Please be realistic. There is no need to give
          any importance to Syrian Patriarch because he is not Orthodox.
          Instead, follow the path of the Alexandrian Patriarch. This is
          an advice to you as a Malankara brother belonging to the same
          blood.

          Thomas
        • thomas_pa1@yahoo.com
          ... Prophets are ... shown ... they ... they see ... may be ... increase ... Poverty stuck India!! Is that the general image you Western/ Middle-Eastern
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 15 8:40 AM
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            --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Daniel Thomas" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
            > Dear Members
            >
            > I am loyal to Holy throne of Antioch for above reasons. Syrian
            Prophets are
            > no doubt trustworthy and through sacrifice & Christ's love they have
            shown
            > us by coming to poverty stuck India from Land of MILK and HONEY, and
            they
            > have seen footsteps of Christ, we believe by seeing some of us, but
            they see
            > all Biblical sites daily hence their faith should be little more,
            may be
            > that's why Parumala Thirumeni asked us to visit these sites to
            increase
            > faith at least by seeing.

            Poverty stuck India!! Is that the general image you Western/
            Middle-Eastern Semitic people have about India??

            By the immense blessing of God, India from ancient times was
            a land rich in MILK, honey and spices. Middle eastern merchants
            came from their arrid lands to take these from India. Cows are
            abundant in India. Almost every home (including Christians)
            owns atleast one cow. How many Syrians owns a cow? or do they
            drink camel milk?? We consider it a blessing that we have
            enough food in our land (infact excess wheat and milk).

            Please don't get too emotional. No Eastern Orthodox Church or
            Oriental Orthodox (except the Syriac Orthodox which removed
            itself from Oriental Orthodox communion because of communion
            with Roman Catholics based on Petrine Supremacy theory) believes
            in Petrine Supremacy. In ancient writings the name of
            Syrian Patriarch is second only to that of Coptic Patriarch
            of Alexandria (the great defenders of Orthodox faith). The
            Syrian Church got the Orthodox faith from Alexandria. St. Jacob
            Burdana was ordained by an Alexandrian Patriarch. Thus the
            broken lineage of Anthioc was reinstated. Armenian Church
            was founded by St. Andrew, The Church of Constantinople was
            founded by St. Barthalomew. Similarly the Coptic Church
            was founded by St. Mark. All of these are true Christians
            acts. Their is no ethnic pride or arguments of Superiority
            here. Only the Syrian Church following Roman Catholic line
            of thinking preaches these false teachings against ignorant
            Indian Christians. This is NOT Christian in any way!

            Regarding liturgy, it is not proprietary intellectual property
            of a Church. Only the highly racial and ethnic "modern" Syrian
            church believes in this un-Christian way. The Ethiopian Liturgy
            is from the Alexandrian Coptic Church. Yet the Patriarchs of
            Alexandria does not claim any intellectual superiority over
            Ethiopians.

            > 1000s martyrs of Syrian church are there
            in Syria
            > died for their belief, can U show me 1 malayali Malankara Orthodox
            priest a
            > martyr, NEVER U will find. Then why should I join subversion against
            Holy
            > Throne Of Antioch. What Malankara bishop's party has its own apart
            from what
            > it has acquired from Patriarchs, not even 1 Prayer or saint or
            priestly name
            > or dress. Slight differences are deliberately made now.

            The dress used by Syrian bishops originates from Alexandria.
            The head cover with 13 crosses it was traditionally used by
            Egyptian dessert fathers. Ancient Syrian attire was more close
            to modern Assyrian attire. Observe the Icons/image of St. Issac the
            Syrian, Canayi Thoma etc.

            Can you answer who murdered the secretary of Vattasheril Thirumeni?
            Please don't pretent to be clean people. Is is not very difficult
            to understand the desire of bishop Divannasios and the people
            who support him. Please be realistic. There is no need to give
            any importance to Syrian Patriarch because he is not Orthodox.
            Instead, follow the path of the Alexandrian Patriarch. This is
            an advice to you as a Malankara brother belonging to the same
            blood.

            Thomas
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