Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Devil makes a chapel

Expand Messages
  • Saju Paulose
    Dear all, I came across a posting by a priest (one Fr. George) in an IOC internet Forum and read the following sentence in that posting: Quote: ............It
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 5, 2010
      Dear all,
      I came across a posting by a priest (one Fr. George) in an IOC internet Forum and read the following sentence in that posting:

      Quote:
      ............It is quite natural that devil makes a chapel where God has a Church.......

      Unquote:
      Can someone explain to me whom he is talking about? Was it not his Devaloka Sabha making numerous chapels and catholicate centers near God's churches after creating problems or closure of the same? Is this priest out of his mind to call his own group "Devil"?

      Saju Paulose
      New York
      #2341
    • Fr. George Thankachan
      Dear Saju Paulose, I am not bereft of senses. What I wrote in ICON was in all my integrity to my vocation. To be honest, infact, my posting in ICON happened
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 7, 2010
        Dear Saju Paulose,

        I am not bereft of senses. What I wrote in ICON was in all my integrity to my vocation. To be honest, infact, my posting in ICON happened to be my criticism as well as my advice to both the factions. Any sensible person can understand the gist of it. I know that this write up of mine would never see the light, yet I write with a hope. ...

        I am not an Orthodox Chauvinist. It is true that I was born in Orthodox Church but I am married to Jacobite Church. To me, both Churches are integral to my life. I still believe that there are rooms for peace and unity. Could you please tell me what we have gained out of this 100 years long litigation? Aren't we putting God in dilemma? Building churches for prayer is good, but if it has a hidden agenda behind it, I must say, it is nothing but evil. See what our Lord Jesus has said, "It is written, My house shall be called a house of prayer, but you have made a den of theives".(Mat 21:13). Building church for one's religious use should never be at the cost of another one's church. If orthodox church does the same, they too are not blameless. Parallelism of any sort which pose a threat to the very existence of the other party is intolerable and unjustifiable.That's my conviction..The term 'Devil' is derived from the Greek "diabolos" which means "one who makes division". The word
        Religion derived from the Latin term 'Religare', etymologically, means 'that which binds people together and holds them to God'. Just think it over and try to find out where you and I are.

        Please bear in mind that both you and I belong to the same family with the same blood flowing through the veins and bound up by the same thread of cultural, liturgical and theological heritage.

        But I am greatly disappointed of the present way of the functionning of our Church. It is a pity that good bishops like Dr. Geevarghese Mar Koorilose with an ecumenical out look becomes parochial. He can very well play the role of an arbiter for the Peace and Unity in our Church. It is highy deplorable that he takes a U-turn. Please tell me what is our witness as a Christian church among the common people in India.? What innovative way of life we have to offer to the people at large?. Division of any sort would axe the very root of christian
        ethics. Therefore, let us dream of a united church where we have perpetual love and peace. As Pandit Nehru said, " To dream, and to work hard for the realisation of that dreams, and see that dream materialised before our eyes, that is the fulfilment of our life."

        Don't you fear the Last Judgement? Are n't we accountable to God, the Just? Let us stop sparring each other, but work together prayerfully for the extension of the Kingdom of Heaven. And that will be the best tribute we can ever offer to the Parumala Bava. God bless you.

        With love and prayers,
        In Christ,
        George Achen, Ireland.
        St.Peter's & St.Paul's Indian Orthodox Congregation,
        Drogheda, Ireland.
      • Dr. Leena Mathew
        Dear Saju Poulose, Congratulations! Well explained! With prayers, Leena. 4136
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 7, 2010
          Dear Saju Poulose,

          Congratulations! Well explained!

          With prayers,
          Leena.
          4136
        • Aji Thomas David
          Dear Achan What you think about the one of the senior bishop and most respected personal in the ecumenical arena Geevarghese Mar Osthathios s statement on our
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 8, 2010
            Dear Achan

            What you think about the one of the senior bishop and most respected personal in the ecumenical arena Geevarghese Mar Osthathios's statement on our Coorilose thirumeni's press statement? your Osthathios Thirumeni not become becomes parochial?

            In Christ
            Aji Thomas David
            4088

            --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Fr. George Thankachan wrote:
            >
            > Dear Saju Paulose,
            > But I am greatly disappointed of the present way of the functionning of our Church. It is a pity that good bishops like Dr. Geevarghese Mar Koorilose with an ecumenical out look becomes parochial. He can very well play the role of an arbiter for the Peace and Unity in our Church.

            >
            > With love and prayers,
            > In Christ,
            > George Achen, Ireland.
            > St.Peter's & St.Paul's Indian Orthodox Congregation,
            > Drogheda, Ireland.
            >
          • Jinesh John
            Dear members I was wondering why Fr.George didn t turn up with his philosophy and entymology after uttering blasphemy against the Holy Church since it was his
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 9, 2010
              Dear members

              I was wondering why Fr.George didn't turn up with his philosophy and entymology after uttering blasphemy against the Holy Church since it was his usual practise in the past first to talk like an illiterate guy and when criticism occurs, he changes his stand to that of a highly matured and learned man.he primarily mentions about two different churches-"othodox" and jacobite; that itself shows the divided mentality in him;happy to hear that Fr.George too agree that orthodox and jacobite are seperate churches;speaking about unity and paralellism,Dear father, As Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru said the Unity of India lies in it's diversity.The Holy Syrian Church believes in the peaceful coexistance of different ideologies rather than radical activism and it is this belief that prompted Holy Synod to build a Church for it's faithful;sayameese twins cannot survive too long clinging to each other!!so for the betterment of both seperation is good unless both will die!!

              when Jesus approached the man who had demons for a long time,the demons trembled and said to Jesus not to torment them;the same has happened in Parumala,where satanic forces are dwindling for a long period of time in the Holy Place and suddenly when they see the Light of God coming towards them ,they are crying out and opposing the divine act to be accomplished.hope Father George would realise now where he stands and where he ought to stand???

              Nowadays several wolves("chauvenists" in father's words) in sheep's(pretending neutral) clothes are wandering like evil spirit to catch the light hearted and they pretend to be messengers of God(yes,indeed they are messengers from "devalokam");In one hand ,they hail for unity and peace while crying aloud "jai catholicose";Dear Father we don't need any new gospel from people who can't even maintain unity among your own folks(e.g.In Ireland ,Dublin,the Orthodox have two rival groups)

              Jinesh John
              ID 4003
            • Rev. Fr. George Thankachan
              Dear Aji, In what way Mar Osthathios thirumeni becomes parochial? I don t think even Mar Koorilose thirumei would utter a word against Osthathios thirumeni.
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 9, 2010
                Dear Aji,

                In what way Mar Osthathios thirumeni becomes parochial? I don't think even Mar Koorilose thirumei would utter a word against Osthathios thirumeni. As far I know, Mar Osthathios thirumeni is not only a scholar but also a saintly man. His grace happens to be a guru and a source of inpiration to millions of people like me. He is a down to earth bishop, a visionary as well as a missionary. A very accessible person. So you had better approach his grace and clarify your doubts. He will help you out. God bless you.

                With blessings,
                George Achen,Ireland.

                St.Peter's & St.Paul's Indian Orthodox Congregation,
                Drogheda
                Ireland.
              • Saju Paulose
                Dear Fr. George, I am very glad to see your transformation to the moderate side. I remember about few direct discussions we had thru this forum on some issues
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 9, 2010
                  Dear Fr. George,

                  I am very glad to see your transformation to the moderate side. I remember about few direct discussions we had thru this forum on some issues in the past.

                  Since your posting was based on the proposed Jacobite Church at Parumala, I would like to remind you that the Jacobites are planning to build a "Church," not a Chapel. Again please remember that it was the policy of IOC to create problems in all of the major MSOC churches, get it closed by an RDO and then construct a chapel or Catholicate center near by. And they have done that with great success so far.

                  Dear Fr. George, if you felt pity about our Bishop Koorilos in this issue,how did you felt when the shameless conversion of Gurgan happened? Was it not performed and blessed by your church? Where were you at that time? Are you bold enough to tell your church leaders that the GURGAN CHAPEL was made by devils?

                  Regards.
                  Saju Paulose
                  New York
                  #2341
                • Dr. Leena Mathew
                  Rev: George Achen, Ireland. I would like to mention few points for your message. 1) “I AM NOT AN ORTHODOX CHAUVINIST.IT IS TRUE THAT I WAS BORN IN ORTHODOX
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 9, 2010
                    Rev: George Achen, Ireland.

                    I would like to mention few points for your message.

                    1) �I AM NOT AN ORTHODOX CHAUVINIST.IT IS TRUE THAT I WAS BORN IN ORTHODOX CHURCH BUT I AM MARRIED TO JACOBIT CHURCH. TO ME, BOTH CHURCHES ARE INTEGRAL TO MY LIFE."

                    Achan, in fact I was shocked to read a posting from a clergy that he belong to a particular church just because he is born in a family of that church or married to a person in that church. I think we must try to study the faith of the church and if we are convinced that the faith is the true faith, we must be part of that church. If found wrong, find out the true faith and be part of that truth. I being a laity I can say with full confidence that I am a Syrian Orthodox believer not because I am born in SOC family but because I am sure that my faith is the true faith. And I will not change my faith for any worldly benefits. So even in my sickness and in all my difficulties I could stand firm in my faith even though many new teachers were after me to change my faith.

                    2) �BUILDING CHURCHES FOR PRAYER IS GOOD, BUT IF IT HAS A HIDDEN AGENDA BEHIND IT, I MUST SAY, IT IS NOTHING BUT EVIL. SEE WHAT OUR LORD JESUS HAS SAID, "IT IS WRITTEN, MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER, BUT YOU HAVE MADE A DEN OF THEIVES".(MAT 21:13). BUILDING CHURCH FOR ONE'S RELIGIOUS USE SHOULD NEVER BE AT THE COST OF ANOTHER ONE'S CHURCH. IF ORTHODOX CHURCH DOES THE SAME, THEY TOO ARE NOT BLAMELESS. PARALLELISM OF ANY SORT WHICH POSE A THREAT TO THE VERY EXISTENCE OF THE OTHER PARTY IS INTOLERABLE AND UNJUSTIFIABLE. THAT'S MY CONVICTION.�

                    My dear Achan, we are two different churches. You have a church in Parumala now ( even though it belong to the bishop who is appointed by Antiochan Patriarch, IOC is keeping it. Since our Thirumeny has given the details of it, I do not want to elaborate it.) We do not have a church. Where should our people go for their spiritual needs? It is their right to build a church. Our constitution allows it. There must be some real reasons for your fear that if we construct our church it is going to be a threat to the very existence of your church. We have SOC, and IOC churches close to each other in many places. Why this fear only in Parumala?

                    3) �THE TERM 'DEVIL' IS DERIVED FROM THE GREEK "DIABOLOS" WHICH MEANS "ONE WHO MAKES DIVISION". THE WORD RELIGION DERIVED FROM THE LATIN TERM 'RELIGARE', ETYMOLOGICALLY, MEANS 'THAT WHICH BINDS PEOPLE TOGETHER AND HOLDS THEM TO GOD'. JUST THINK IT OVER AND TRY TO FIND OUT WHERE YOU AND I ARE.�

                    The one who made the division in this Holy church is a devil. You can find out that person from history.

                    4) �PLEASE BEAR IN MIND THAT BOTH YOU AND I BELONG TO THE SAME FAMILY WITH THE SAME BLOOD FLOWING THROUGH THE VEINS AND BOUND UP BY THE SAME THREAD OF CULTURAL, LITURGICAL AND THEOLOGICAL HERITAGE.�

                    We were, but not now. You changed from it and we stand firm in it.

                    5) �BUT I AM GREATLY DISAPPOINTED OF THE PRESENT WAY OF THE FUNCTIONNING OF OUR CHURCH. IT IS A PITY THAT GOOD BISHOPS LIKE DR. GEEVARGHESE MAR KOORILOSE WITH AN ECUMENICAL OUT LOOK BECOMES PAROCHIAL. HE CAN VERY WELL PLAY THE ROLE OF AN ARBITER FOR THE PEACE AND UNITY IN OUR CHURCH. IT IS HIGHY DEPLORABLE THAT HE TAKES A U-TURN.�

                    Many IOC people are talking about unity now. Why? I think

                    � Pandan nayude pallinu shouryam
                    pande polle bhaliqunilla

                    Pandivanoru kadiyaloru puliye
                    condichathu njan kandariyunnen�

                    6) �DON'T YOU FEAR THE LAST JUDGEMENT? ARE N'T WE ACCOUNTABLE TO GOD, THE JUST?�

                    We do fear. That is why we are so firm to cling on the true faith.

                    With Prayers,
                    Dr. Leena
                    4136
                  • Aji Thomas David
                    Dear Achan With all respect to Osthathios Thirumeni, he may be a saint to you or above than a saint. But for the members of Syriac Orthodox Church, he betrayed
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 10, 2010
                      Dear Achan

                      With all respect to Osthathios Thirumeni, he may be a saint to you or above than a saint. But for the members of Syriac Orthodox Church, he betrayed our Holy Church long back for red rob, and he do not reserve any respect as any spiritual fathers of the Holy Church.

                      Regarding his unorthodox teaching and practice is already posted by Mr. Issac along with the photo proof.

                      If you consider our Koorlose Thirumeni is parochial, then how you can think we should not call your Osthathios Thirumeni as parochial.

                      Give respect and take respect.

                      In Christ
                      Aji Thomas David
                      4088

                      --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Rev. Fr. George Thankachan wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Aji,
                      >
                      > In what way Mar Osthathios thirumeni becomes parochial? I don't think even Mar Koorilose thirumei would utter a word against Osthathios thirumeni. As far I know, Mar Osthathios thirumeni is not only a scholar but also a saintly man. His grace happens to be a guru and a source of inpiration to millions of people like me. He is a down to earth bishop, a visionary as well as a missionary. A very accessible person. So you had better approach his grace and clarify your doubts. He will help you out. God bless you.
                      >
                      > With blessings,
                      > George Achen,Ireland.
                      >
                      > St.Peter's & St.Paul's Indian Orthodox Congregation,
                      > Drogheda
                      > Ireland.
                      >
                    • Bijoy AV
                      Respected Fr. George, Achan should understand the pathetic situation of priests and bishops in Syriac Orthodox Church. Parumala Thirumeni, secretary of
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 11, 2010
                        Respected Fr. George,

                        Achan should understand the pathetic situation of priests and bishops in Syriac Orthodox Church. Parumala Thirumeni, secretary of Patriarch and strong believer of Syriac Orthodox Church and buried in Parumalapally on entering into rest. But no one knew at that time, the tomb would be made to mere brick and concrete by the Orthodox faction on detracting believers of that of Parumala Thirumeni.

                        Moreover, the non-believers (those who are not believing what Thirumeni was believing) insisting unnecessary things like conforming to worthless 1934 rules etc., when there are Holy Bible, Holy Qurbana etc to be followed.

                        It has become too much, fed up with confronting with non-believers. When anyone start talking, non-believers take-up their sole greatest contribution to Christianity, the 1934 rules. There ends things. Some of the innocent people might have trapped in the 1934 rules.

                        Although Parumala Thirumeni do not need support of any person, it has
                        become high time for the believers to have a church near the sacred remains of the Thirumeni.

                        It is these non-believers who compelled us to have another church at
                        Parumala.

                        Bijoy AV
                        4534
                      • Reji Joseph
                        This is definitely not a response to Dr. Geevarghese Osthathios letter to the Hindu regarding the orthodox status of our church. For the statement to deserve
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 12, 2010
                          This is definitely not a response to Dr. Geevarghese Osthathios letter to the Hindu regarding the "orthodox" status of our church. For the statement to deserve a response it has to be a serious statement. Jokes deserve comments and that is what this is.

                          The statement reads thus: THE JACOBITE CHURCH IS NOT AN ORTHODOX CHURCH AS THEY ACCEPT AND BELIEVE IN THE SUPREMACY OF ST.PETER AS ROMAN CATHOLICS DO. NO ORTHODOX CHURCH BELIEVES IN THE SUPREMACY OF ST.PETER.

                          As per wikipedia, the Oriental Orthodoxy is defined as the faith of those Eastern Christian Churches that recognize only three ecumenical councils — the First Council of Nicaea, the First Council of Constantinople and the Council of Ephesus. The Devalokam historians have so far not been able to unearth the history of any IOC representative who has attended any of these Ecumenical councils. So even the basic faith which was declared in these ecumenical councils had to come from the Syrian bishops who have come to India over the years. That being the case, how can someone who is revered by IOC to be a scholar make such a statement. If this was a serious statement, then it reminds me of a fool who claims that his father is not of a reputed family where as he himself is!!! People who have the unbroken chain of apostolic succession can, shall and will claim that. Unlike the throne of St Thomas which was "found" at Devalokam in the 1960s, the throne of St Peter was established in AD 37. The biblical reference which is given for the throne of St Thomas speaks of 12 thrones in all. So a curious question I have is: "Does Judas Iskariot also have a throne?". Maybe Moosa Gurgan can claim that since it has been empty?

                          In all probability, I feel this Senior Metropolitan of Malankara Orthodox Church was probably trying to crack a joke in an attempt to emulate the more respected Chrysostom Thirumeni of the Mar Thoma Church. One day he may even come out with his book of jokes!

                          Reji Joseph
                          4513
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.