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Reply to Dr. George-'UNITY AN UTOPIA /ILLUSION'

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  • Leena Mathew
    Dear Dr. George Kunjkunj John, In fact I want to answer three of your previous letters, which are enlisted below: (1) The letter appeared in this forum on
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 4, 2009
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      Dear Dr. George Kunjkunj John,

      In fact I want to answer three of your previous letters, which are enlisted below:

      (1) The letter appeared in this forum on 17-9-09: Petrine Supremacy addressed to Dear respected and beloveds.

      (2) The letter appeared in this forum on 24-9-09: Moran Yeshu Mashiha addressed to me.

      (3) The letter appeared in this forum on 4-10-09: Moran Yeshu Mashiha addressed to me and Mr. Rinu Sam.

      However, as of now I am responding to your letters No: 2 and No: 3.

      LETTER NO: 2

      Thank you for all these wonderful postings, which are real mysteries for me! I don't know where you stand with regard to your faith? Is in the SOC boat of ours, or in that Ayyo boat of theirs. Or one leg in this boat and the other leg in the Ayyo boat. Latter is acrobatic and is very risky, since you may lose your equilibrium. However, let me address your 2nd letter which appeared in this form on 24-9-09 with the title - Moran Yeshu Mashiha addressed directly to me. With due respect, may I mention my areas of agreement and disagreement in the contents of your message:

      QUOTE : 1- YOUR VALUABLE WRTINGS IN THIS FORUM ARE INDEED LAUDABLE ALBEIT (EVEN IF) SOME INJURE CERTAIN PEOPLE. I AM DELIGHTED TO READ YOUR WORDS

      (A) THIS CHURCH IS THE CHURCH ESTABLISHED BY THE ONE AND ONLY SON OF THE ONE AND ONLY GOD. SO THIS CHURCH IS ONE.

      Response: Of course, some or for that matter whole of my writings are injuring the IOC followers. It is not that I am against IOC. If they don't want to be under the Patriarch of Antioch, it is their discretion. Every human being has their fundamental human right to choose their faith. Nonetheless, the degree of injury suffered by reading my postings by any of the form readers is directly proportional to the degree of his/her inclination towards IOC. However, any IOC reader who is genuinely interested in seeking TRUTH, PEACE and LOVE  in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,(who have shed  even the last drop of his Precious Blood to redeem, we sinners)
      will definitely be benefited by these response messages. As a matter of fact, lots of the IOC laities are nice people. But they are being misguided and miss-indoctrinated by their leaders who have VESTED INTEREST rather than worshiping our Lord in Truth and Spirit. Truth is only ONE. There can't be no two Truths on any topic of dispute. God is with the Truth.�

      QUOTE : 2- (2.1)WE THE FOLLOWERS OF THE 'ONLY GOD' MADE SEVERAL CHURCHES. WE FIGHT FOR 'TRUE FAITH'. (2.2) INDEED THE TRUE FAITH IS THE ONE ON WHICH THE CHURCH WAS BUILT. THE TRUE FAITH IS 'JESUS IS THE GOD". THOSE WHO BELIVE IN THE ABOVE TRUE FAITH SHALL BE REDEEMED AND GIVEN ENTRY TO THE HOUSE OF JESUS THE GOD. (2.3) THEREFORE, BREATHING OVER THE SHOULDERS OF INNOCENT FAITHFUL IS TRUELY AGAINST
      THE TRUE FAITH.

      Response: When we debate on one subject we have to be specific about that subject. We won't reach anywhere in that discussion by discussing few general statements.

      2.1 -Who made several Churches? Who stood for not deviating from the True Apostolic Faith? Who suffered all the persecutions for preserving the True Apostolic Faith? These have to be answered.

      We Syrian Orthodox Christians didn't make any new Church. We, SOC continue to stick on to the old pledge of the Creed formed in Nicea Synod on 325 AD, developed in Constantinople Synod on 381 AD and further developed in Ephesus Synod on 431 AD by the Universal Churches of all the three continents.

      The Church of Antioch suffered all persecutions to preserve the True Faith. Our Forefathers laid their life for this. So far no Patriarch faced an opportunity to say sorry for the actions of their ascendants.�

      2.2. Your statement is Vague. You say that - True Faith is the one on which the Church was made. Agreed, now, let me ask you one question.
      Can you tell me which Church is that? Is it Ayyo Church for which your heart is throbbing? When Jesus is coming again he will receive THE BRIDE not all the brides. He will receive the one and only one bride whom he got engaged with. That bride is the First Church. That bride is the True Faith. Truth is only one. True Faith is also only one.

      2.3 I didn't go anywhere else. I didn't go to any other form. I am sitting in my home form. But I don't keep quiet listening to any of the visitors to come and engage in St. Peter bashing and abuse our HH Patriarch and Holy Qurbana in front of me. If I see this I am bound to respond defensively. This should not be misinterpreted as -

      BREATHING OVER THE SHOULDERS OF THE INNOCENT FAITHFUL. Can you tell me these offensive fighting people are Innocent Faithful? This is what IOC taught you in Kanjikuzhi special training camp!

      (3) (3.1)OUR ROLE MODEL IS JESUS WHO HAD NO SPACE IN THIS WORLD TO LEAN THE HEAD. TODAY, THE CHURCH IS FULL OF WEALTH. THE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST DWELLS IN 'MANIMALIKA' . (3.2)WHEN JESUS TRAVELLED ON DONKY BACK THOSE CHRIST LEADERS TRAVEL IN POSH CARS AND GOLD CLASSES. HOLY FATHERS INSTRUCTED TO ADHERE TO POVERTY TO INBIBE CHRIST, BUT WE FOLLOW LUXURIES. (3.3) EVENTUALLY, THE SEED OF HATREDNESS, PRIDE FOR POWER AND FIGHT FOR SUPERMACY AND SLAVERY WERE ESTABLISHED BY DEVIL. THEY FAIL TO SEE THE CRUSIFIED LORD HANGING IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES.

      3.1 When you say high ideologies and lofty principles, first you should set an example yourself and be a role model.

      Do you have a house to lean your head? Or are you homeless?

      Do you have a Bank Account? Or do you distribute all your earnings to the poor? Or do you give all your money to your wife and children- to make a wonderful villa in posh western style housing, Capitation fee for your sons Medical College admission and so on and so forth.

      3.2 Are you traveling on Donkey these days? I WONDER!!! Jesus traveled on donkey. It is a symbolic representation of humbleness. He traveled only in and around Jerusalem. If Jesus is present on earth now, definitely He may be traveling in a car- probably in a fuel economic budget car. Of course He won't choose a Rolls Royce. But He asked His disciples to go throughout the world for evangelization. Those days the motorized vehicles were not available.

      Our SOC Thirumenies are not having a posh life. Most of the time they are fasting. I do not know about Ayyos and others.

      3.3 Who is the Pioneer in sowing the seed of hatred in Malankara
      Church? Who is fighting for supremacy? Who is practicing slavery in Malankara Church?

      Do you have answers for YOUR OWN questions? If you don't have any answers, may I give them? Mathews Mar Athanasius  (AD 1843 - Protestantism), Vattaseriyil Methrapolitha (AD 1911- Treasury key issue) and Fr. P.T. Geevarghese (brain behind inviting deposed Abdul Masih Patriarch & conspiracy for Malankara Rite) sow the seed of hatred in this Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church, after the miraculous deliverance from the Nestorian shackles (110 years) and Paranky shackle (65 years). Ayyo Sabha is fighting for supremacy. And Ayyo� Sabha removed the democratic constitution set up by HH Moran Mor Ignatius Peter III Patriarch.

      (4) (4.1) MADAM, I FEAR TO WRITE MORE BECAUSE MORE I WRITE THE MORE I COMMIT SINS. I WENT HIDDEN FROM ACTIVE CHURCH POLITICS IN 1972 WHEN THE PEACE BESTOWED ON MALANKARA CHURCH BY THE GREAT SACRIFICE OF HH MORAN YACUB III BAVA WAS BROKEN. (4.2) I CRIED SILENTLY DURING NIGHTS TO SEE THE ETERNAL PEACE AMONG OUR BROTHERS/SISTERS. MY PRAYERS ARE NOT HEARD BECAUSE I WANTED THE PEACE IN MALANAKARA CHURCH. (4.3) YOUR WORDS OPENED MY HEART 'ONE CHURCH' NO CATHOLIC, ORTHODOX, PROTESTANT OR NON EPISCOPAL, BUT ONE.

      4.1- Lately, what made you to surface from hiding? Suppose if your
      younger brother is trying to take away all your properties and kill you; will you go hiding or try to get back your properties which you genuinely deserve?

      4.2- Your prayers are not heard not because you wanted the peace in Malankara Church but because you didn't pray to give repentance to those who are wrong.

      4.3-I didn't write one Church. What I wrote was - This Church is THE
      CHURCH established by the one and only son of the one and only God. So
      this Church is one. So The Church which is established by Jesus is
      one Church. Not any Church that is formed by others.

      (5) IT WILL BE ACCEPTED WHEN EVERY ONE LEADER AGREES ' NATHANE MULMUDI CHUDIYA LOKAME NEE THARUM PERENIKKU ENTHINA ?'

      5. It will be accepted when every one leader agrees that they will stand only for the Truth.

      (6) MAY MORAN YESU M'SHIHO STRENTHEN YOUR PEN MORE TO WRITE FOR ONE CHURCH.

      6. I pray that, Moran Yesu Mashiha will strengthen me to write for Syrian Orthodox Church, which is the True Church.

      I also pray to Moran Yesu Mashiha for the repentance of dissidents to come back to this Universal Mother Church, which is the First Church in this world, which has no pagan influence, but the ORIGINAL Jewish cultural influence, which have Syriac (Descend language of Aramaic, which was mother tongue of our Lord Jesus Christ) liturgy.

      LETTER NO: 3

      Now let me answer your third letter in which you addressed me and Mr. Rinu together.

      (1)DEAR MADAM LEENA AND MR. RINU SAM,

      Response: First and foremost I want to tell you that Mr.Rinu and I are not having same faith So it is not proper to address us together. I can talk only about me. So I will answer my points.

      (2) THE GREAT EMPHASIS BOTH OF YOU ARE TRYING TO IMPRESS UPON THE READERS COULD BE CONSTRUED YOUR THIRST FOR DIGGING OUT CHRISTIAN LITERATURE. ONE CAN READ THOSE COLOSSAL VOLUMES ONE BY ONE TODAY
      BECAUSE OF THE HANDY REACH ON BROWSING. WE FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT WE ARE DEBATING IS ON THE MYSTERY. JESUS IS GOD BUT OUR INTELLIGENCE WILL NOT HELP TO KNOW THAT. MORE ONE READS FAR HE/SHE GOES FROM TRUTH. UNLESS IT WAS REVEALED BY HOLY SPIRIT ONE CAN'T KNOW THE TRUE FAITH.

      Response: I am not trying to IMPRESS anyone. But I am trying to CONVINCE�my opponent and my readers.

      To learn, I browse internet. My children and my husband too browse internet. We read hard copy books too. We watch TV. We use all possible means to increase our knowledge on topics, what ever area is interested to us. But we do not trust anything fully unless and until we are sure of the credibility of the author and the publishing house.

      I am very much aware that only Holy Spirit can reveal the truths about God. I have mentioned it in my previous postings. I received Holy Spirit at the time of baptism with the seal of Holy Mooron. I pray, fast, repent, confess and receive Holy Communion, study Bible and try to practice as much as I can. But, when ever I fall I repent to increase in Holy Spirit. So I am sure Holy Spirit is guiding me to know God more and more.

      I appreciate your policy of less reading on Church History to avoid confusion. May I ask you one question, what the Holy Spirit revealed you about the conflict between SOC and IOC?

      (3)WE HAVE A CLASSICAL EXAMPLE OF ST. PAUL IN FRONT OF OUR EYES. HOW SUCH A FANATIC JEW WHO RUN WITH SWORD TO CUT THE TRUE CHRISTIANS BECAME A MARTYR FOR THE CHURCH. WHEN HOLY SPIRIT ENTERS IN US WE BECOME TRUE CHRISTIANS. NO FORCE IN THE WORLD CAN STOP HIM/HER TO SPREAD THE TRUE FAITH. THEREFORE, WE MUST LEAVE THE WAY OF CRITICISM BUT LISTEN WITH LOVE. AVOID TO HATE OUR BROTHER/SISTER BUT EXTEND YOUR LOVE THE TRUE ATTRIBUTE OF OUR LORD.

      Response: St. Paul was not in the True Faith before. When Jesus called him, he became a member of the True Faith. It is your discretion to LOVE the St. Peter bashers, Patriarch bashers and persons who undermine our Holy Qurbana. But please don't teach your wonderful IOC doctrine to me. If I see such posting in our SOC form by a visitor I am bound to respond vehemently in this electronic media. But I am not using any gun or sword as you describe.

      (4)I HAVE A HEARD A STORY IN MY CHILDHOOD ABOUT ST. OSTHATHIOS BAVA. WHEN THE JACOBITES IN KUNNAMKULAM ARRANGED A RECEPTION FOR BAVA ONE ARDENT METHRAN KAKSHI MAN RAN IN FRONT OF THE PROCESSION SHOUTING ' OSTHAN VARUNNE' ( BAVA FORGIVE MY LANGUAGE). TO CUT THE STORY SHORT THAT UNFORTUNATE MAN RAN AND BECAME A LUNATIC. EVEN METHRAN KAKSHI FAITHFUL GOES TO THE TOMB OF BAVA FOR INTERCESSION.

      Response: This shows that St. Osthathios Bava is a true Saint. Your THREAT to me is quite FANATIC. I know for sure you are greatly disturbed by my writings, you being an IOC guy disguised as SOC.

      (5)RECENTLY, I COULD READ A STATMENT THAT PULIKKOTTIL THIRUMENI WAS THE CULPRIT TO MAKE MALANKARA CHURCH UNDER THE YOLK OF ANTIOC. IT WAS ALREADY PUT UNDER ANTIOC IN THE FIRST HOLY SYNOD - NICEA. IF THE
      CHURCH ACCEPTS NICEA SYNOD HE SHOULD ACCEPT THE ANTIOC AS THE HEAD OF MALANKARA CHURCH. IF PULIKKOTTIL THIRUMENI DIDN'T SUFFER UNDER PALAKKUNNATH METHRAN THE TRUE FAITH WOULD HAVE BEEN VANISHED FROM MALANKARA CHURCH.

      Response: The Church was under Antioch in St. Peters time itself. Malankara Church was under Antioch from the time of St. Thomas.
      St. Thomas himself was Aramaic speaking person and was send by the hierarchy from Antioch. I think, GENTLEMAN you are a confused
      person. You are flip-flopping your arguments in every alternate sentence. First you set up your mind straight, and then enter into any debate. I advice, you may get on the back of your personal donkey and visit all the places where the global schisms and Malankara schisms took place and study it carefully. Do not browse internet or books!!! You must get first hand knowledge.

      (6)May our holy fathers guide us to preserve this MYSTERY.

      Response: Who are your Holy fathers? Are they in Antioch or in Devalokam or both!!! First make up your mind and take a final decision. Keeping your legs on both the boats is dangerous.

      I will answer your first letter later.

      With Prayers,

      Leena.
      4136
    • Dr. George K John
      Dear Madam Leena Mathew, Your one sided argument and blunt attack on any one are quite bizzare. I wonder to see me painting as IOC man by you; no regrets I am
      Message 2 of 2 , Oct 7, 2009
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        Dear Madam Leena Mathew,

        Your one sided argument and blunt attack on any one are quite bizzare. I wonder to see me painting as IOC man by you; no regrets I am an ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN. From your writtings I feel that you have no direct knowledge about the Church situation in fiftees. Before you abuse people please think twice that we are Christians and we love enemies. Hatredness is the language of Devil. In order to talk about Antiocean faith there is no need to abuse Roman Catholic faith or any other church. In 1958 we were calling the HH Catholicos as ' Vridhanaya Punnoose (forgive me)'; but at the end of 1958 all our bishops including Mor Yuliose Bava accepted HH as Moran Mor Baseliose. I am a victim of such transformation of the church. Sorry I never want to remember those days any more.

        Thank you for your enlightenments. I would also like to follow your late parents advice "Ignore".

        I can accept that my faith in the church is very weak. I make mistakes and heavy sins while talking about Church. But I can't accept two faiths but several denominations. My faith is "JESUS IS GOD".

        I pray every day "Prarthippin Sleehanmare Karthavoday............".

        Please remember Our Church has a strong "canon". Those who beat drums can't be the leader of the church. They can become leaders when Ruha appoint them.

        With prayers
        P.George K John
        ID 0204

        --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Leena Mathew wrote:
        >
        > Dear Dr. George Kunjkunj John,
        >
        > In fact I want to answer three of your previous letters, which are enlisted below:
        >
        >
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