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Re: Fr. C.A. Abraham Corepiscopa (Cheerathottam, Pothanicad) passed away

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  • Jeffy Thomas
    First and foremost I would like to extend my condolence to Fr. C. A Abraham s family. Secondly, I would like to correct my friend Mr. Saju Paulose and to the
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 5, 2009
      First and foremost I would like to extend my condolence to Fr. C. A
      Abraham's family.

      Secondly, I would like to correct my friend Mr. Saju Paulose and to the
      moderators in posting # 15378 for wrongfully addressing Mr. Paulose
      Peter as Fr. Paulose Peter who was a former Vicar of St. Mary's
      Syrian Orthodox Church White Plains, NY. I would like to remind
      everybody the fact the Mr. Paulose Peter was excommunicated by our
      Supreme Head H.H. Moran Mor Ignatius Zakka Iwas and was thus stripped
      away from priesthood. So he is just a layman. Please do understand that
      the REAL White Plains Church members are out of a home due to this
      cause. People that are in favor of him have control of the church
      building and kicked out the REAL church members since the REAL church
      members refused to take part in any canonical celebrations of a layman.

      Also, it is sad that these supporters of Paulose Peter who are against
      the Patriarch are enjoying all privileges at their home Jacobite
      Parishes in India.

      Finally, if everyone addresses Mr. Paulose Peter as Fr. Paulose Peter
      that would be ultimately dishonoring our Patriarch. So I please humbly
      request that all "Sathyavishwasigal" to not falsely credit
      laymen as priests.

      In His name,

      Jeffy Thomas

      --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Saju Paulose wrote:
      >
      > Fr. C.A. Abraham Corepiscopa (Cheerathottam, Pothanicad) passed away
      in Kochi on Monday. He was 90. He was ordained as deacon by Mor
      Athanasius Valiya Thirumeni of Aluva. In 1958, he left his mother church
      (Jacobite Church) and joined the Catholic Church (Syro Malankara). He
      was the principal of Bharathamatha College, Thrikkakkara, Ernakulam, for
      twelve years. He also served as the vice-principal of Mor Ivanios
      College, Trivandum.
      >
      > A scholar in English who specialised in poetry and an authority on St.
      James' liturgy, he was the first Syrian Orthodox priest from India to
      obtain a degree from Oxford University. He took his M.Litt. from Oxford
      specialising in T.S. Eliot and Ph.D. from Temple University in
      Philadelphia.
      >
      > Bar Etho Briro Dr. Babu Paul IAS, Roy Paul IAS, Rev. Fr. Paulose T.
      Peter (former Chief of Protocol,United Nations and former vicar of St.
      Mary's Jacobite Church, White Plains, New York), Deacon Akash Paul (St.
      James Syrian Orthodox Church, Livingston, New Jersey) and Lalu Kuriakose
      (St. George Syrian Orthodox Church, Carteret, New Jersey) are closely
      related to Fr. C.A. Abraham Corepiscopa.
      >
      > Please remember our former priest Fr. C.A. Abraham Corepiscopa in your
      prayers.
      >
      > Saju Paulose
      > New York
      > #2341
      >
    • Fr. Paulose T. Peter
      This is in reply to Jeffy Thomas who took some pleasure in slandering me in his/her reply to a posting by Saju Paulose on the passing of my uncle, Very Rev.
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 8, 2009
        This is in reply to Jeffy Thomas who took some pleasure in slandering me in his/her reply to a posting by Saju Paulose on the passing of my uncle, Very Rev. Dr. C.A. Abraham Cor-Episcopa. The following lines are custom made for Jeffy, and I hope that the moderators of this Forum will show the impartiality and magnanimity to publish it.

        My first reaction to your posting was to thrash it into the dust bin but on a second thought I decided to scribble this reply. I do read SOCM Forum but only occasionally. A well wisher phoned me this morning and called my attention to the reference you made to me in the SOCM Forum.

        I do not know who you are, where you are from or what your profession is, but one thing I am pretty sure about is that you are very poorly educated and your intelligence is way below average. Saju Paulose referred to me as "Rev. Fr. Paulose T. Peter, former vicar of St. Mary's Syrian Orthodox church, White Plains". By your own argument of the definition of priesthood, if you have any scruples left (I believe you had none to begin with), you would have figured out that I was properly appointed by the appropriate authorities as the vicar of St. Mary's church at least at the specific period Saju was referring to as the former vicar.

        Who I am and what I am at present is not a bone of contention here. Saju has not referred to the present state of my affairs and therefore commenting on it would be redundant. Also, I choose not to enter into a theological discussion on the matter simply because you will not have a level-playing field with me for a fair discussion.

        Praying for you,
        Fr. Paulose
        St. Mary’s Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church, White Plains
        ID 3332

        -----------------

        Moderators Note:
        ================

        While we are publishing the above given reply after editing, we will not be publishing any more discussions on this personal subject.

        ------------------

        --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Jeffy Thomas wrote:
        >
        > First and foremost I would like to extend my condolence to Fr. C. A
        > Abraham's family.
        >
        > Secondly, I would like to correct my friend Mr. Saju Paulose and to the
        > moderators in posting # 15378 for wrongfully addressing Mr. Paulose
        > Peter as Fr. Paulose Peter who was a former Vicar of St. Mary's
        > Syrian Orthodox Church White Plains, NY. I would like to remind
        > everybody the fact the Mr. Paulose Peter was excommunicated by our
        > Supreme Head H.H. Moran Mor Ignatius Zakka Iwas and was thus stripped
        > away from priesthood. So he is just a layman.
      • Arun Joshua Mathew
        To the Malankara Orthodox Priest who tried to humiliate a member through this forum, I just got the opportunity to read a priest s statements about one of the
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 12, 2009
          To the Malankara Orthodox Priest who tried to humiliate a member through this forum,

          I just got the opportunity to read a priest's statements about one of the member of this forum. I don't know either parties and didn't know what was the controversy either. But he was saying that "I do not know who you are, where you are from or what your profession is, but one thing I am pretty sure about is that you are very poorly educated and your intelligence is way below average". I was really surprised when I read this statement, because he himself acknowledge that he didn't know the other person, at the same time, he was unscrupulously judging the other person. I still believe that he is a priest and would like to ask him a question. Who given you authority to judge another human being who is also a creation of GOD? I am not educated and just a human being and not here to criticize him either. Please keep the value of priesthood in your heart all the time, no matter Jacobite, Orthodox, Malankara or Marthoma. Because we respect all priests and we believe that it is coming through a special blessings of GOD and they all are CHOSEN (PATTATHWAM).

          Thank you for reading it,
          Arun Joshua Mathew
          Oklahoma City, USA
          4162
        • Babu Jacob Nadayil
          Dear Moderators, This is in response to the message #16359 dated 10/15/09 by dear Mr.Arun Joshua Mathew of Oklahoma City. First of all I am tired of seeing the
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 16, 2009
            Dear Moderators,

            This is in response to the message #16359 dated 10/15/09 by dear Mr.Arun Joshua Mathew of Oklahoma City.

            First of all I am tired of seeing the subject as a news of passing away of a respected priest and then the messages being carried away by different personnel to the wilderness of their own perspective. Therefore I changed the subject in the caption about which I have some questions. I guess a higher authority like our venerable Mor Dionysius Methrachen of Manjanikkara can answer and direct us properly on the subject given above.

            The whole saga began with the message of one of my co-parishioners of St.Mary's Syrian Orthodox Church of White Plains, New York, Mr.Jeffy Thomas(Message#16301) who tried to correct our another brother who addressed an ex-communicated, just like we address any other priests. My belief is, an ex-communicated is always an ex-communicated until he or she repents and returns to the mother church. There should not have been a fuss about it at all. There the personal attack began. The Moderators should not have given an opportunity to an outsider of our Holy church to attack our own member. I have seen the Bull of our Holy Patriarch addressing the ex-communicated former priest as Mr. so and so. I am well aware of the whole story of our White Plains Church and Mr.Jeffy Thomas explained only the mere fact whether it can be accepted by others or not. The above subject or the ongoing discussion has nothing to do with the news of passing away of Very Rev.Fr.C.A.Abraham. May that soul rest in peace.

            Please tell me how do I formally address an ex-communicated from any church? For example, if I have to write a letter to him/her, is it OK to address him/her respectfully as Mr./Miss. or Mrs. so.. and so..?

            Thank you.

            Babu Jacob Nadayil
            #0983

            -- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Arun Joshua Mathew wrote:
            >
            > To the Malankara Orthodox Priest who tried to humiliate a member through this forum,
            >
            > I just got the opportunity to read a priest's statements about one of the member of this forum. I don't know either parties and didn't know what was the controversy either.
          • BOBY GEORGE PAUL
            ATTITTUDE TOWARDS THE EXCOMMUNICATED We should not humiliate those excommunicated from the Holy Church. They were lost sheep and we must pray for their return.
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 21, 2009
              ATTITTUDE TOWARDS THE EXCOMMUNICATED

              We should not humiliate those excommunicated from the Holy Church. They were lost sheep and we must pray for their return. What I understood is that the excommunicated priests were forbidden to use their Ecleciastical powers and not eligible to enjoy the priestly/spiritual powers henceforth enjoyed by them. Once ordained, the Holy priesthood is not taken back from them, but what happens is just they are prohibited to use the same in the Holy Church. They have chance to return at any time if they repent and fulfil the required atonements. So we must address them as "ACHEN/THIRUMENI or BROTHER". Is it not the True Christian way?

              - BG PAUL
              ID 4199
            • Bobby Kuriakose
              Dear Moderators: I am writing this as a continuation to the ongoing discussion in this forum on how to address `excommunicated clergies. This discussion
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 28, 2009
                Dear Moderators:

                I am writing this as a continuation to the ongoing discussion in this forum on how to address `excommunicated' clergies.

                This discussion started with one of the members of this forum correcting another member on his posting addressing an excommunicated clergy as "Fr. Paulose Peter". This was followed by a response post from the same excommunicated clergy. However, his response sounded more like a personal attack with stand out phrases such as – "I do not know who you are, where you are from or what your profession is, but one thing I am pretty sure about is that you are very poorly educated and your intelligence is way below average". A total display of pride and arrogance by looking down on a fellow being? The response also implied that the ex-clergy, even after betraying the Holy Church and breaking the Amologya that was repeated standing inside the Holy Altar of the living God during his ordination, still takes pride in being a former priest (former Vicar ??) of the Syrian Orthodox Church. It sounded like an idiosyncrasy that regardless of the severe aftermath of his defection, he demanded respect for the position he once held.

                I am sure that myself being a weak and sinful layman has no right to judge this excommunicated clergy. However, I would like to point out some facts on how the American Archdiocese and the faithful of White Plains Church were affected by the defection of this and other individuals who betrayed the Holy Church and jumped the boat to safeguard their vested interests. St. Mary's SOC, White Plains was one of the biggest churches of the SOC in New York. The Church was formed as a result of selfless dedication and effort of a number of SOC faithful. However, after his defection, this excommunicated priest along with excommunicated Bishop filed Court Cases against His Holiness the Patriarch and the SOC faithful and was able to win favorable court verdicts claiming the Church building to be a `Center' and not a church under the Patriarchate. He took initiative to kick out the SOC faithful who had put in a lot of effort, money and tears to build the Church. Now the church is affiliated as St. Mary's Malankara Orthodox Church, White Plains under the Devalokam Catholicos. For any true SOC faithful, it hurts to see Devalokam Catholicos and company performing services at the Church that was dedicated by Late Lamented Catholicos Baselius Paulose II. The irony is that majority of the supporters of this excommunicated clergy (members of the NEW St. Mary's MOC, White Plains) hail from Jacobite families from Malankara who still claim to be JACOBITES under the Patriarch. It is strange that they still have the privilege of receiving the Holy Sacraments from their Jacobite parishes in India.

                I have also noticed another posting on this forum comparing this excommunicated clergy to Shashi Tharoor. It is to be noted that the forum Moderators have an open door policy to another excommunicated clergy also who is a regular writer in this forum. This is the same individual who had openly challenged His Holiness, the Patriarch through emails and letters. Both these individuals are in the company of the excommunicated bishops, who are still running the mission to inflict damages on our Syrian Orthodox Church.

                It is obvious that there are a lot of Jacobite faithful still associated with these excommunicated clergies due to a number of reasons. Well, it is their personal choice. But, to still hail these individual in this Jacobite forum doesn't sound fair enough to the Holy Church, the hierarchs and the faithful affected by their acts. It is indeed disrespect to His Holiness. I would like to reiterate a line from Moran's bull that was sent to the excommunicated Fr. Eldhose – quote - any clergy or laity associating with you or participating in such wicked acts, also will become automatically accursed and expelled from the primary membership of the Syrian Orthodox church – unquote.

                To conclude, it is to be noted that respect is earned not demanded, not commanded. So, regardless of if we address these individuals as Mr. or Fr., we cannot defy the fact that they have betrayed the Holy Church and as a result have been expelled and stripped off from Priesthood and are banned from using the priestly vestments and from offering the Holy Eucharist.

                Our Church is going through a phase where we are being bombarded with court cases against us and every day our basic existence is being challenged. Let us pray that the defectors will wake up from their pride and arrogance and realize that they are just money banks to the Devalokam lawyers and truly repent and return back to the mother church. It is noteworthy that His Beatitude, the Catholicos through his recent bull has opened the doors for this return with a clear message to those attending other denomination churches outside Kerala on the consequences of putting their feet on two boats.

                Slomo,

                Bobby Kuriakose
                ID # 2333
              • Aji Thomas David
                ... Dear brother Boby I think you are wrong, please read the SALMUSA Parumala Thirumeni, section 9 of SALMUSA
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 6, 2009
                  --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, BOBY GEORGE PAUL wrote:
                  >
                  > ATTITTUDE TOWARDS THE EXCOMMUNICATED
                  >
                  > We should not humiliate those excommunicated from the Holy Church. >They were lost sheep and we must pray for their return. What I >understood is that the excommunicated priests were forbidden to use >their Ecleciastical powers and not eligible to enjoy the >priestly/spiritual powers henceforth enjoyed by them. Once ordained, >the Holy priesthood is not taken back from them, but what happens is >just they are prohibited to use the same in the Holy Church.

                  Dear brother Boby

                  I think you are wrong, please read the SALMUSA Parumala Thirumeni, section 9 of SALMUSA

                  http://sor.cua.edu/Personage/MGregoriusGChathuruthil/18761216shalmootho.html

                  9.Again, for the judgment according to the righteous judgements of the Holy Spirit, and as the Evangelion commands "all that you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven", and according to the authority bestowed on Your Holiness by God, I will not only become eligible to be expelled from your presence, judged and removed from my position; if I modify or alter this document that I have written myself of my own volition or any of the pledges stated above, it is just that Your Holiness proclaim that I am fraudulent, so that no one trusts my word.

                  In Malayalam
                  http://syrianchurch.org/StGG/salmusa_StGregorios.pdf

                  It is very clearly stated, His Holiness has the authority to take away priesthood from the excommunicated priest or a bishop.

                  In Christ
                  Aji Thomas David
                  ID - 4088
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