Dear Rinu Sam,
Let me explain this discussion in a chronological order.
On Aug 25 Tuesday in SOCM
digest no. 3053 item no.2a the below posting appeared as a reply to The Reality And Message To All Generation.
It is my understanding that the teaching and beliefs of the Indian Orthodox Church are thoroughly Orthodox. They are not Roman Catholic neither Protestant nor Nestorian. They are Orthodox. They believe the
same doctrines that Syrian Orthodox believe - the same teaching that my own mother Church and Holy Synod, the Coptic Orthodox Church believes.
ID number 4168
On Aug 27 Thursday in SOCM
3055, item no 6a my reply was posted
I do not agree with you in one thing. IOC belief is not same
as ours. We do not believe in St Thomas throne. We believe that Jesus gave the authority to St. Peter to lead and guide His sheeps. None other than St Peter has the authority for that because Jesus gave that authority only to St. Peter. So only St Peter's descendents has the right to guide us.
Your posting came along with the moderators note.
On Aug. 31 Monday in SOCM 3059, item 2a
Re: the reality and message to all generation
Dear Leena Mathew
You are talking against orthodoxy. There is no Special authority given to St.Peter by Jesus Christ.
The excommunication of IOC synod is done by The H.H Partrirach and we leave that to him or to his successor and laity should not drag the issue to this forum or interpret it another way.
From the desk
Primacy of Saint Peter
The Fathers of the Syriac Orthodox Church tried to give a theological
interpretation to the primacy of Saint Peter. They were fully convinced of the unique office of Peter in the primitive Christian community. Ephrem, Aphrahat and Marutha who were supposed to be the best exponents of the early Syriac tradition unequivocally acknowledge the office of Peter
(1)In the above letter you were denying the supremacy of St. Peter and
(2)You were insulting our supreme head-HH Patriarch. Talking about his successor when he is very much alive!
On Sep.2.Wednesday in socm 3061 item no.8a. you replied to the moderators.
re: the reality and message to all generation
However please note that during the time of transfiguration Jesus did not call SimonPeter as Kepha.Peter' s declaration about Jesus as Christ the Messiah was six days before transfiguration and at the same time immediately after his declaration (son of Living God)Jesus told Peter "Get away from me, Satan"...... ....because these thoughts of yours don't come from God but from man.(mathew 16:23)
I was only trying to show this and nothing else. I was not Supporting IOC but as A Christian I am intersted in Peace and Unity In The Church of Christ. Beacuse of the feud in Malankara many orthodox/jacobite christians left orthodxy and joined in other denominations My unreseved apology to the moderators for any
Again you were re-emphasizing your ideology undermining the importance of St. Peter but with a desperate innocent face.
My reply on Thursday, September 3, 2009 SOCM 3062
Re: Peter's Primacy
Dear Rinu Sam,
The excommunication done by our Patriarch who is our Supreme Head.
A) We cannot disobey him by simply Leave that to him.
B) We can not HOLD obeying our Patriarch, until His successor assumes the throne in future. Since we are obedient, disciplined spiritual children of the Church are bound to obey His Kalpanas PROMPTLY.
C) This forum is for the obedient, disciplined spiritual children of the Church under the leadership of the Patriarch of Antioch for their open discussion.
D) All the Kalpanas of the Patriarch of Antioch are for all the members of the Church- irrespective they are Clergy or Laity (Almayar).
In my above letter I emphasized St. Peters Supremacy and the importance we give for Our Patriarch's Kalpanas.
On Friday, September 4, SOCM 3063, item no.7, I replied
Dear Rinu Sam,
-----------------------------------When we are tempted to go
to other denominations, who tells us that we will get buckets (plural) full of worldly benefits if we give them bucket (singular) full of money or gold, we must ask ourselves whether we will get the flesh and blood of Jesus for the forgiveness of our sin and to become oneness with our Savior. Jesus Himself tells as that we have no share with Him if we do not eat His Flesh and drink His Blood. If we are not getting that, we will not go to heaven. Holy Qurbana is not a commemoration just to share bread and wine. If anyone tells that, please ask them to tell how we will get this if holy Qurbana is just for commemoration. If Jesus has asked us to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, He is responsible to give us. Oh God forgive them for their ignorance.
On Tuesday, September 8, 2009 SOCM 3067, item no. 3 you
Kingdom of God/Heaven
"For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but Righteousness, Peace and Joy in Holy Spirit."(roman 14:17)
This was the reply to my posting on Septemer4, SOCM 3063 ITEM NO 7.
I replied for the above on Sunday, September 20, 2009 in SOCM 3078 item no.2
AN ANALYSIS OF ROMANS 14:17
Jesus words are same, in above three quotations this is MY BODY, this is MY BLOOD, Take and Eat it, and Drink it. He did not say this represents my body or this is a symbol of my body; but "This is my Body". He did not say take this bread and it will become my Body to those who receive it with faith or take this bread and the act of taking it will help you to have spiritual communion with me. The plain meaning of His words is "This bread which I hold in My Hands is my Body by virtue of My Creative Words. Take it and eat it. Same way the Wine that I hold in My hand is My Blood. Drink it". This is the only way we can comprehend it. Our Lord created the earth, heaven and all its inhabitants with His Creative Word only. Jesus took the Bread and broke it and said - This is my Body, take it and eat it. So we believe it and take it.
In this context, you may refer the teachings of St. Paul in 1 Cor.10:16 and 11:29 also.
We cannot explain how the bread and wine become His Body and Blood. This is analogous our human inability to explain, how the Divine and human are merged as ONE in the Child in the manger at Bethlehem. We cannot explain the Real Presence of God-made man either at Bethlehem
or on Alter. The consecrated bread and wine become the Body and the Blood of Our Lord , when the priest according to the command of Jesus and exercising the powers of Jesus priesthood ( power of Holy Spirit) has consecrated the bread and wine as did Jesus that which is on the Alter is true Body and Blood of our risen Lord.
Read John. 6:48-58.
Jesus is repeatedly emphasizing it. Note John 6:53-56:- 6:53- Jesus said to them, I am telling you the truth: if you do not eat the flesh of Son of Man and drink His Blood, you will not have life in yourself.
6:54- Whoever eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood has eternal life, and I will raise him to life on the last day.
6:55- For my Flesh is the real food; my Blood is the real drink.
6:56- Whoever eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood lives in me, and I live in him.
Jesus said it so clearly that we cannot reach the Kingdom of God without eating His Flesh and without drinking His Blood.
Now, if we are not able to get the real Flesh and real Blood of Jesus through our Holy Qurbana, which is the other source from where can we get it? We can't find any other resource mentioned in the Bible regarding this subject. If Jesus has asked us to receive it, He will definitely give us in the same way as He said, BECAUSE HE IS TRUSTWORTHY.
If any of our (SOC) Rev. Fathers are reading this message and find any mistake in it, please correct me.
Your reply for that was on
Tuesday, September 22, 2009 SOCM 3080 item no.5a.
Re: AN ANALYSIS OF ROMANS 14:17
Dear Leena Mathew
You wrote about holy Qurbana and do you know that people after
partaking/receiving Holy Qurbana the same day attack verbally the Parish priests or same day behave very badly to other fellow humanbeings or attack them verbally.Even in Parsh committee meetings they attack/ abuse each other.
What should any one with human brain understand? With due respect to Holy Qurbana you wrote this or you are trying to undermine Holy Qurbana.
I GAVE YOU THIS REPLY
Please refer John: 13:27- As soon as Judas took the bread Satan entered him. Jesus said to him, Be quick about what you are doing!.
Can you tell me why Satan entered soon after receiving the true body of our Lord? Do you know what was in Judas Iscariot pocket
when he received the body of Jesus Christ? 30 silver coins received for betraying our Lord. In this context, you may refer the teachings of St. Paul in 1 Corinthians shown below:
11:27- It follows that if anyone eats the Lords bread or drinks from his cup in a way that dishonors him, he is guilty of sin against the lords body and blood..
11:28- So then everyone should examine himself first, and then eat the bread and drink from the cup.
11:29- For if he does not recognize the meaning of Lord's body when he eats the bread and drinks from the cup, he brings judgment on himself as he eats and drinks.
11:30- That is why many of you are weak and ill, and several have died.
The above verses are self explanatory why Satan entered in Judas Iscariot. In the same way if some one is behaving as you stated, it implies that he/she might have received Holy Communion, without examining themselves. It is not that our Qurbana is not the true body and the true blood of our Lord who sacrificed Himself for us. I honestly believe that your writting is a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
On Friday, September 25, 2009 SOCM 3083
5. Analysis of Roman 14:17-Righteousness/Peace /Joy AND
On Sunday, September 27, 2009 SOCM 3085
4a. Re: Moran Yeshu M'shiho YOU TRIED TO ESTABLISH THAT RIGHTEOUSNESS, PEACE AND JOY ARE ENOUGH TO GO TO KINGDOM OF HEAVEN
Then on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 SOCM 3087
4a. Re: Reply for Analysis of Romans 14:17
Dear Leena Mathew
I did not make any blasphemy regarding the Holy Qurbana For You, whatever you say/and write are correct
Let me ask you now please explain me What Is Meant By Kingdom Of God.
Now you are accusing me that For You, whatever you say/and write are correct.
Gentleman, my readers know very well that once I made a mistake about Abdul Masih Patriarch. Instead of the word deposed I used excommunicated. Later I apologized for the mistake.
Again, if you see my posting on Sunday, September 20, 2009 in SOCM 3078 item no.2
AN ANALYSIS OF ROMANS 14:17, I have mentioned If any of our (SOC) Rev. Fathers are reading this message and find any mistake in it, please correct me.
I am very FIRM in my faith. But if I realized that I made any mistake in any ecclesiastical terminologies and definitions, I promptly,�ask apology without giving any excuse. I used to welcome the corrections our SOC Rev. Fathers.
When, I reviewed, all your pervious postings, I realized that:
(1) You are insulting our SOC's Supreme Head, HH Patriarch
(2) Denying the Supremacy of St. Peter
(3) Denying the importance of Holy Qurbana Queen of our Sacraments
(4) You are stating that to go to Heaven, one should have Righteousness, Peace and Joy. Explicitly you are giving the message that- Receiving Holy Qurbana is not a MANDATORY REQUIREMENT to go to Heaven. This is not Syrian Orthodox Christian belief. Still you are claiming that you are a Syrian Orthodox believer�