Re: THE REALITY AND MESSAGE TO ALL GENERATION
- Dear Leena Mathew
You are talking against orthodoxy. There is no Special authority
given to St.Peter by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the head of church(visible and invisible) Read Acts of Apostles Chapter 13 :1-3 whereby you see that Saul(St.Paul)and Barnabas were ordained by certain prophets and teachers,Simeon who was called Niger,Lucias of Cyrene and Manaen who was raised with Herod Antipas. St.Paul wrote 14 Epistles and St.Peter wrote 2 Epistles. St.Peter reminds his flock the teachings of St. Paul.(1 Peter 3:15)In The Holy qurbana before the Evengelion We also sing that "Paulose sleeha Dhanyan cholkatte nithevam"..........In 4th Thubdhen we recite that "sleehanmarial thalavanmaraya unnathapetta mar pathrosenayum,mar paulosineyum.....
Another thing is that in the early church,there were four Partriarchs: Alexandria,Rome,Constantipole,and Antioch. All are the same position and equal.In Thubden(Diptychs) we also proclaim "Ennum Ee Auyskalthum....Nalu bhagangalilulla daivathinte Vishudha sabhaye( the holy churches of God in the four quarters of the earth)
The excommunication of IOC synod is done by The H.H Partrirach and we leave that to him or to his successor and laity should not drag the issue to this forum or interpret it another way.
From the desk of moderators
Primacy of Saint Peter
The Fathers of the Syriac Orthodox Church tried to give a theological interpretation to the primacy of Saint Peter. They were fully convinced of the unique office of Peter in the primitive Christian community. Ephrem, Aphrahat and Marutha who were supposed to be the best exponents of the early Syriac tradition unequivocally acknowledge the office of Peter.
The Syriac Fathers following the rabbinic tradition call Jesus Kepha for they see rock in the Old Testament as a messianic Symbol. When Christ gave his own name Kepha to Simon he was giving him participation in the person and office of Christ. Christ who is the Kepha and shepherd made Simon the chief shepherd in his place and gave him the very name Kepha and said that on Kepha he would build the Church. Aphrahat shared the common Syriac tradition. For him Kepha is in fact another name of Jesus, and Simon was given the right to share the name. The person who receives somebody elses name also obtains the rights of the person who bestows the name. Aphrahat makes the stone taken from Jordan a type of Peter. He says Jesus son of Nun set up the stones for a witness in Israel; Jesus our Saviour called Simon Kepha Sarirto and set him as the faithful witness among nations.
Again he says in his commentary on Deuteronomy that Moses brought forth water from rock (Kepha) for the people and Jesus sent Simon Kepha to carry his teachings among nations. Our Lord accepted him and made him the foundation of the Church and called him Kepha. When he speaks about transfiguration of Christ he calls him Simon Peter, the foundation of the Church. Ephrem also shared the same view. The Armenian version of De Virginitate records that Peter the Rock shunned honour Who was the head of the Apostles. In a mimro of Efrem found in Holy Week Liturgy points to the importance of Peter. Both Aphrahat and Ephrem represent the authentic tradition of the Syrian Church. The different orders of liturgies used for sanctification of Church building, marriage, ordination etc. reveal that the primacy of Peter is a part of living faith of the Church
- Dear Moderator,
I, with all due respect and humility, tend to differ your point of argument in proving the Petrine Supremacy in the holy Church. Please note that 'Petrine Supremacy' is a later interpolation in the church and that too adopted as a doctrine in 800 AD by the Roman Catholic church to support their claim of the throne of St. Peter at Rome. No Orthodox Churches accept this concept. The reference to the word 'Rock' as said in Mathew 16:18 has nothing to do with the 'Person'- st.Peter. It is as a reference to the 'faith' professed by St Peter when asked who Jesus was. It is clear from the prayer by the celebrant for the 6th diptychs given in our holy Qurbana Taksa. It reads thus: "Establish us by Thy grace O Lord, upon the 'rock' of the Orthodox faith of the three holy ecumenical synods...." The word 'rock' used in the Holy Bible has always been indicative of Jesus or God(Genesis 49:24,Psalms 19:14,Isaiah 26:4). The rock on which Jesus would build his church has been identified as Jesus himself(his work of salvation by dying for us on the cross.) It seems most likely that the rock refers to Peter as the leader of the church (for his function, not necessarly his character.)You said, "When Christ gave his own name "Kepha" to Simon he was giving him participation in the person and office of Christ". If so, do you believe that St.Peter was given the equal status of Jesus as One of the three 'persons' in the holy Trinity?.Has St.Peter been incorporated into the Godhead? It is sometimes suggested that because the word for 'rock'(petra) differs from the name Petros, the 'rock' referred to is not Peter himself but the confession he has just made of Jesus as Messaish. In Aramaic, however, the same term 'kefa' would appear in both places,the change in Greek is due to the fact that 'petra', the normal word for rock, is feminine in gender ,and therefore not suitable as a name for Simon!
Please try to understand the Bible, tradition of the holy Orthodox Church in its true sense and teach others accordingly.
May God give us more wisdom to undertand His Word.
God bless us,
George Achen, Ireland.
Fr. T.George , St.Peter's &St.Paul's Orthodox Syrian Church.
- Hi Simon,
Found some links on Hidden Perl, dont know whether you have seen it.
In HIS love
--- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Simon wrote:
> Dear Fr Boby Thomas,
> Also does anyone know the best place someone living in United Kingdom can buy The Hidden Pearl on DVD? I have watched it on video but I understand it is now available on DVD and I would buy a copy not only for myself but also to educate and teach our people more in the glories of the beloved Syrian Orthodox Church.
- Dear Moderators
Thankyou very much for your enlightment of "Rock"/Kepha as per syriac tradtion.
However please note that during the time of transfiguration Jesus did not call SimonPeter as Kepha.Peter's declaration about Jesus as Christ the Messiah was six days before transfiguration and at the same time immediately after his declaration (son of Living God)Jesus told Peter "Get away from me, Satan"..........because these thoughts of yours don't come from God but from man.(mathew 16:23)
It is The Faith Confessed by Peter" Rock" on the Faith of Peter Jesus Built his Church Peter,James and John were Called Pillars of Church. They were also called the Leaders of Church(Galatian2:9). The Cornerstone being Christ Jesus and the foundation laid by Apostles and prophets the church was built(Ephes2:20-21).The Authority Jesus Gave his apostles/disciples well described in Mathew28:19-20.this is how church was formed after the resuurection Jesus christ. Authority and Position are two different aspects. Peter was the Leader of Apostles/Disciples.I am not denying his position as the leader of disciples. What Leena Mathew wrote Peter was given authority to guide the sheeps. If Look at gospel of St.John 21:15-19 Jesus called Peter as Simon, son of John. He is not called as Kepha here and guiding the sheeps was not THE AUTHORITY given by Jesus to Peter. Jesus Reinstated Peter because of his denial before crucification.
I was only trying to show this and nothing else.I was not Supporting IOC but as A Christian I am intersted in Peace and Unity In The Church of Christ.Beacuse of the feud in Malankara many orthodox/jacobite christians left orthodxy and joined in other denominations My unreseved apology to the moderators for any confusion.
--- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Rinu Sam wrote:
> Dear Leena Mathew
> You are talking against orthodoxy. There is no Special authority
> given to St.Peter by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the head of church(visible and invisible) Read Acts of Apostles Chapter 13 :1-3