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THE REALITY AND MESSAGE TO ALL GENERATION

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  • Geogy Abraham
    Reality Message for ALL Dear Readers/Friends, We have to spread our Antiochean movement in and out of India, so that people who belong to our denomination
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 14, 2009
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      Reality Message for ALL

      Dear Readers/Friends,

      We have to spread our Antiochean movement in and out of India, so that people who belong to our denomination stick to our belief. I have seen many families whose mother church is Jacobite denomination but they go to Indian Orthodox Church. We have to make them aware through letter or through blogs or whatever ways we can think of so that they go to Jacobite church. Under leadership of our Catholicose and our Bishops are doing the surveys in different parts of India and overseas so that they can make a congregation. Therefore please spread this news to all people you know and advise them to go to Jacobite Syrian Church or make small congregations; and for overseas people (UK, Italy, Ireland) please do visit website www.malankarasyriacvoice.com so that you can get the details of that area's congregation.

      Our aim must be focused and we should live obediently under the holy throne of Antioch, never and ever think about unification of Indian Orthodox Church and Jacobite church. If it happens again they will gallop everything where cross is. Therefore to all readers of Jacobite Church beware of all believers of Devalokam group in context of Church matters. Their thinking is different. Indian Orthodox Church Devalokam is the newly formed church which formed in 1912. Their history just starts from 1912. They grew due to our mistakes and took advantage of our weaknesses. From this generation onwards we should never make mistakes or compromises on anything regarding belief (i.e. holy throne of Antioch). Indian Orthodox Church is lead by and backed by crooked people (i.e. they are not straight forward). Earlier they had very religious & calm bishops like Pampady thirumeni and all. For readers knowledge Devalokam group even came to Mor. Paulose Mor Athanisus (Velliyha thirumeni) at Thrikunathu seminary for begging to obtain the kaivepu (i.e. to become correct canonical bishop); unfortunately they did not succeed as our Velliyha thirumeni was very brilliant.

      With the leadership of Catholicose Didimos I and his assistant Milithious it's very clear to me atleast that their aim is to capture and proclaim everything in the world which is having cross. I just pray to GOD to make them think in a good manner. Prayers can bring miracles and I hope peace come to all our churches.

      Take the case of Thrikunathu Seminary. According to me the problem of Thrikunathu Seminary exists due our great mistakes of the past. At that time (i.e. during late 1960's) our people of the St:Mary Church Thrikunathu (or Angamali diocese people) should have protested against HG. Philipose Theophilose entry. Why St: Mary Church Thrikunathu parishioners and whole Jacobite faction or Angamali diocese dint protest HG. Philipose Theophilose charge of Angamali diocese even though both church were united that time. All Jacobite faction knew H.G Philipose Theophilose is in the side of Devalokam group. So, there are many unanswered questions for all these issues. I once again believe that Devalokam group grew only because of our peoples/parishioners mistakes and they took advantage of our weakness. Now we the young generation must rise and work together should make sure that such mistakes never happen in future. For that we shall pray.

      Then comes the issue of "H.G. Dr. Thomas Mor Athansisus (Muzuvatupuza)" and "H.G. Yohanan Mor Milithious (Manuthy)". Due to these methrans lot of churches came under dispute and were closed. All readers must understand that these methrans are living in the hard earned erected properties/buildings of Jacobite church. Muzuvatupuza bishop house was the head quarters of the Jacobite Church i.e. Catholicate Aramana where our beloved H.H. Baselius Paulose II resided. Do you know again the truth H.G. Dr. Thomas Mor Athansisus (Muzuvatupuza) is possessing the cross of our beloved H.H. Baselius Paulose II. Our Jacobite members went and asked him to return the cross, he did not give.

      H.G. Yohanan Mor Milithious (Manuthy) is residing in the property which belongs to our present Catholicose Aboon Mor Baselius Thomas I. We are so kind enough that we are providing shelter for them.

      I personally wrote an email to H.G. Yohanan Mor Milithious (Manuthy) saying that "why you went to Devalokam faction". He wrote to me that it's very difficult to be under the leadership of our present catholicose Aboon Mor Baselius Thomas I. Then I wrote to him that if there was any problem it could have been resolved across the table and further one shouldn't follow a person but one must only be obedient to the holy throne of Antioch. Further I did not get any reply from him.

      Foresaid are my feelings which are just pouring forth at present. My advice to all readers are believe in God almighty and do worships which are followed by the Holy throne of Antioch. Never go behind any individual (i.e. whether it be the bishop of our church who is deviating the canon of Antioch or any other church or person etc..). We have very good prayers which are very meaningful. Therefore, to all readers please convey and strengthen our beliefs to all believers.

      Thanks to the H.B Baselious Thomas I. He is our true leader/preacher everything. We all must pray for his good health so that he leads our Malankara Jacobite Syrian Church which will in turn expand our church in totality.

      Last but not the least we cannot forget our supreme head HH Moran Mor Ignatius Zakka I who is leading our church globally in a precise and holy manner. All Prayers to him. We should remember his name in our prayers.

      Praise the Lord.


      Regards,
      Geogy Abraham
      Cherai
      4186
    • Cecil
      Dear All, In this context I have a question, do any one believes that the Indian orthodox fraction is excommunicated by Our H.H Patriarch Bava and the people
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 18, 2009
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        Dear All,
        In this context I have a question, do any one believes that the Indian orthodox fraction is excommunicated by Our H.H Patriarch Bava and the people who join with them are  also excommunicated people, the Holy sacraments which they perform are also invalid? 

        Cecil
        ID #890
      • Geogy Abraham
        Dear Cecil, According to me HB Baselius Awgen was excommunicated (i.e. the Devalokam church) by the HH due to his disloyality to the holy apostolic church.As
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 21, 2009
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          Dear Cecil,

          According to me HB Baselius Awgen was excommunicated (i.e. the Devalokam church) by the HH due to his disloyality to the holy apostolic church.As per canon those who follow the excommunicated church (Devalokam) are also excommunicated.  
           
          Regards,
          Geogy
          4186
        • Rinu Sam
          Dear All What is Reality and Message to All Generation? The Reality is True God!Message to All Generation is Given By the CREATOR or through the Prophets of
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 22, 2009
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            Dear All

            What is Reality and Message to All Generation? The Reality is True God!Message to All Generation is Given By the CREATOR or through the Prophets of The Almighty God or through Angels. Reality is God became man and message to all generations is that Angel said to the Shepherds" I am herewith GOOD NEWS for you WHICH WILL BRING GREAT JOY TO ALL THE PEOPLE........YOUR SAVIOUR WAS BORN-CHRIST THE LORD!(luke2:10-11)

            Can we have All comments in this context

            With prayers

            Rinu Sam
            ID#4038

            --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Cecil wrote:
            >
            > Dear All,
            > In this context I have a question, do any one believes that the
          • Simon
            Dear Cecil, It is my understanding that yes the Indian Orthodox Church has been excommunicated by the Holy Synod of the Syrian Orthodox Church. What this
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 22, 2009
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              Dear Cecil,

              It is my understanding that yes the Indian Orthodox Church has been
              excommunicated by the Holy Synod of the Syrian Orthodox Church. What this means is that a Syrian Orthodox Christian, in obedience to the Holy Synod, does not receive holy communion from Indian Orthodox altars. It does not say that their holy mysteries or sacraments are invalid. It does not say that they are not Orthodox. It says that because of the dispute between Indian Orthodox Church and Syrian Orthodox Church that you are not in communion with them. They are excommunicate = not in communion with you.

              It is my understanding that the teaching and beliefs of the Indian Orthodox Church are thoroughly Orthodox. They are not Roman Catholic neither Protestant nor Nestorian. They are Orthodox. They believe the same doctrines that Syrian Orthodox believe - the same teaching that my own mother Church and Holy Synod, the Coptic Orthodox Church believes. (Same as the Armenian, Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox Churches also). You may believe them to be thoroughly and completely wrong in their decisions concerning their desire to have an Indian Orthodox Church independent from Antioch. You may consider their behaviour unacceptable. But this does not turn them into Roman Catholics or Protestants. It does not mean their sacraments or holy mysteries are invalid. This concept of judging someone else's sacraments as valid or invalid is a Roman Catholic concept which I am not familiar with in Orthodoxy.

              So yes the Indian Orthodox are excommunicate from yourselves - but no I do not believe that this says their sacraments are not valid.

              I pray that this deep and distressing division in our beloved family of Oriental Orthodox Churches may be healed. God has made the heavens and the earth by His great power and outstretched arm and there is nothing too hard for Him - with God nothing shall be impossible.

              Simon
              ID number 4168
            • Rev. Fr. Boby Thomas
              Dear in Christ, Please read our bava s kalpana http://socmnet.org/kalpana_HB_08_2009.htm Fr.Boby Thomas -- with love and prayers Fr.Boby Thomas
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 22, 2009
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                Dear in Christ,
                Please read our bava's kalpana
                http://socmnet.org/kalpana_HB_08_2009.htm

                Fr.Boby Thomas
                --
                with love and prayers
                Fr.Boby Thomas
                0061423736872(M)
                0061394713139(R)
              • Leena Mathew
                Dear Simon, I do not agree with you in one thing. IOC belief is not same as ours. We do not believe in St Thomas throne. We believe that Jesus gave the
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 25, 2009
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                  Dear Simon,

                  I do not agree with you in one thing. IOC belief is not same as ours. We do not believe in St Thomas throne. We believe that Jesus gave the authority to St. Peter to lead and guide His sheeps. None other than St Peter has the authority for that because Jesus gave that authority only to St. Peter. So only St Peter's descendents has the right to guide us.
                  With Prayers,
                  Leena
                  4136

                  --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Simon wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Cecil,
                  >
                  > It is my understanding that yes the Indian Orthodox Church has been
                  > excommunicated by the Holy Synod of the Syrian Orthodox Church. What this means is that a Syrian Orthodox Christian, in obedience to the Holy Synod, does not receive holy communion from Indian Orthodox altars. It does not say that their holy mysteries or sacraments are invalid. It does not say that they are not Orthodox. It says that because of the dispute between Indian Orthodox Church and Syrian Orthodox Church that you are not in communion with them. They are excommunicate = not in communion with you.
                  >
                • Aji Thomas David
                  Dear Simon Quote What this means is that a Syrian Orthodox Christian, in obedience to the Holy Synod, does not receive holy communion from Indian Orthodox
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 25, 2009
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                    Dear Simon

                    Quote
                    What this means is that a Syrian Orthodox Christian, in obedience to the Holy Synod, does not receive holy communion from Indian Orthodox altars.
                    Unquote

                    Very moderate and reasonable approach to the subject. Still I request the learned members of this forum to comment on it.

                    In Christ
                    Aji Thomas David
                    ID - 4088

                    --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Simon wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear Cecil,
                    >
                    > It is my understanding that yes the Indian Orthodox Church has been
                    > excommunicated by the Holy Synod of the Syrian Orthodox Church. What this means is that a Syrian Orthodox Christian, in obedience to the Holy Synod, does not receive holy communion from Indian Orthodox altars. It does not say that their holy mysteries or sacraments are invalid. It does not say that they are not Orthodox. It says that because of the dispute between Indian Orthodox Church and Syrian Orthodox Church that you are not in communion with them. They are excommunicate = not in communion with you.
                    >
                  • Simon
                    Dear Fr Boby Thomas, For the benefit of an ignorant Englishman like me who is so bad at other languages, is there anywhere I can read an English translation
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 26, 2009
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                      Dear Fr Boby Thomas,

                      For the benefit of an ignorant Englishman like me who is so bad at other languages, is there anywhere I can read an English translation of Babva's kalpana http://socmnet.org/kalpana_HB_08_2009.htm ?

                      Also does anyone know the best place someone living in United Kingdom can buy The Hidden Pearl on DVD? I have watched it on video but I understand it is now available on DVD and I would buy a copy not only for myself but also to educate and teach our people more in the glories of the beloved Syrian Orthodox Church.

                      Thank you for your help,

                      Simon
                      ID no. 4168
                    • Rinu Sam
                      Dear Leena Mathew You are talking against orthodoxy. There is no Special authority given to St.Peter by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the head of
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 26, 2009
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                        Dear Leena Mathew

                        You are talking against orthodoxy. There is no Special authority
                        given to St.Peter by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the head of church(visible and invisible) Read Acts of Apostles Chapter 13 :1-3 whereby you see that Saul(St.Paul)and Barnabas were ordained by certain prophets and teachers,Simeon who was called Niger,Lucias of Cyrene and Manaen who was raised with Herod Antipas. St.Paul wrote 14 Epistles and St.Peter wrote 2 Epistles. St.Peter reminds his flock the teachings of St. Paul.(1 Peter 3:15)In The Holy qurbana before the Evengelion We also sing that "Paulose sleeha Dhanyan cholkatte nithevam"..........In 4th Thubdhen we recite that "sleehanmarial thalavanmaraya unnathapetta mar pathrosenayum,mar paulosineyum.....

                        Another thing is that in the early church,there were four Partriarchs: Alexandria,Rome,Constantipole,and Antioch. All are the same position and equal.In Thubden(Diptychs) we also proclaim "Ennum Ee Auyskalthum....Nalu bhagangalilulla daivathinte Vishudha sabhaye( the holy churches of God in the four quarters of the earth)

                        The excommunication of IOC synod is done by The H.H Partrirach and we leave that to him or to his successor and laity should not drag the issue to this forum or interpret it another way.

                        with prayers

                        RinuSam
                        ID#4038

                        ==============================================
                        From the desk of moderators

                        Primacy of Saint Peter

                        The Fathers of the Syriac Orthodox Church tried to give a theological interpretation to the primacy of Saint Peter. They were fully convinced of the unique office of Peter in the primitive Christian community. Ephrem, Aphrahat and Marutha who were supposed to be the best exponents of the early Syriac tradition unequivocally acknowledge the office of Peter.

                        The Syriac Fathers following the rabbinic tradition call Jesus “Kepha” for they see “rock” in the Old Testament as a messianic Symbol. When Christ gave his own name “Kepha” to Simon he was giving him participation in the person and office of Christ. Christ who is the Kepha and shepherd made Simon the chief shepherd in his place and gave him the very name Kepha and said that on Kepha he would build the Church. Aphrahat shared the common Syriac tradition. For him Kepha is in fact another name of Jesus, and Simon was given the right to share the name. The person who receives somebody else’s name also obtains the rights of the person who bestows the name. Aphrahat makes the stone taken from Jordan a type of Peter. He says Jesus son of Nun set up the stones for a witness in Israel; Jesus our Saviour called Simon Kepha Sarirto and set him as the faithful witness among nations.

                        Again he says in his commentary on Deuteronomy that Moses brought forth water from “rock” (Kepha) for the people and Jesus sent Simon Kepha to carry his teachings among nations. Our Lord accepted him and made him the foundation of the Church and called him Kepha. When he speaks about transfiguration of Christ he calls him Simon Peter, the foundation of the Church. Ephrem also shared the same view. The Armenian version of De Virginitate records that Peter the Rock shunned honour Who was the head of the Apostles. In a mimro of Efrem found in Holy Week Liturgy points to the importance of Peter. Both Aphrahat and Ephrem represent the authentic tradition of the Syrian Church. The different orders of liturgies used for sanctification of Church building, marriage, ordination etc. reveal that the primacy of Peter is a part of living faith of the Church
                      • Rev. Fr. T.George
                        Dear Moderator, I, with all due respect and humility, tend to differ your point of argument in proving the Petrine Supremacy in the holy Church. Please note
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 30, 2009
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                          Dear Moderator,

                          I, with all due respect and humility, tend to differ your point of argument in proving the Petrine Supremacy in the holy Church. Please note that 'Petrine Supremacy' is a later interpolation in the church and that too adopted as a doctrine in 800 AD by the Roman Catholic church to support their claim of the throne of St. Peter at Rome. No Orthodox Churches accept this concept. The reference to the word 'Rock' as said in Mathew 16:18 has nothing to do with the 'Person'- st.Peter. It is as a reference to the 'faith' professed by St Peter when asked who Jesus was. It is clear from the prayer by the celebrant for the 6th diptychs given in our holy Qurbana Taksa. It reads thus: "Establish us by Thy grace O Lord, upon the 'rock' of the Orthodox faith of the three holy ecumenical synods...." The word 'rock' used in the Holy Bible has always been indicative of Jesus or God(Genesis 49:24,Psalms 19:14,Isaiah 26:4). The rock on which Jesus would build his church has been identified as Jesus himself(his work of salvation by dying for us on the cross.) It seems most likely that the rock refers to Peter as the leader of the church (for his function, not necessarly his character.)You said, "When Christ gave his own name "Kepha" to Simon he was giving him participation in the person and office of Christ". If so, do you believe that St.Peter was given the equal status of Jesus as One of the three 'persons' in the holy Trinity?.Has St.Peter been incorporated into the Godhead? It is sometimes suggested that because the word for 'rock'(petra) differs from the name Petros, the 'rock' referred to is not Peter himself but the confession he has just made of Jesus as Messaish. In Aramaic, however, the same term 'kefa' would appear in both places,the change in Greek is due to the fact that 'petra', the normal word for rock, is feminine in gender ,and therefore not suitable as a name for Simon!

                          Please try to understand the Bible, tradition of the holy Orthodox Church in its true sense and teach others accordingly.

                          May God give us more wisdom to undertand His Word.
                          God bless us,
                          With Prayers,
                          George Achen, Ireland.
                          Fr. T.George , St.Peter's &St.Paul's Orthodox Syrian Church.
                          Drogheda.
                        • S Chandy
                          Hi Simon, Found some links on Hidden Perl, dont know whether you have seen it. http://www.bethsuryoyo.com/currentevents/aramean/aramean.html In HIS love S
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 31, 2009
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                            Hi Simon,
                            Found some links on Hidden Perl, dont know whether you have seen it.
                            http://www.bethsuryoyo.com/currentevents/aramean/aramean.html
                            In HIS love
                            S Chandy


                            --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Simon wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Dear Fr Boby Thomas,
                            >
                            >
                            > Also does anyone know the best place someone living in United Kingdom can buy The Hidden Pearl on DVD? I have watched it on video but I understand it is now available on DVD and I would buy a copy not only for myself but also to educate and teach our people more in the glories of the beloved Syrian Orthodox Church.
                          • Rinu Sam
                            Dear Moderators Thankyou very much for your enlightment of Rock /Kepha as per syriac tradtion. However please note that during the time of transfiguration
                            Message 13 of 13 , Sep 1, 2009
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                              Dear Moderators

                              Thankyou very much for your enlightment of "Rock"/Kepha as per syriac tradtion.

                              However please note that during the time of transfiguration Jesus did not call SimonPeter as Kepha.Peter's declaration about Jesus as Christ the Messiah was six days before transfiguration and at the same time immediately after his declaration (son of Living God)Jesus told Peter "Get away from me, Satan"..........because these thoughts of yours don't come from God but from man.(mathew 16:23)
                              It is The Faith Confessed by Peter" Rock" on the Faith of Peter Jesus Built his Church Peter,James and John were Called Pillars of Church. They were also called the Leaders of Church(Galatian2:9). The Cornerstone being Christ Jesus and the foundation laid by Apostles and prophets the church was built(Ephes2:20-21).The Authority Jesus Gave his apostles/disciples well described in Mathew28:19-20.this is how church was formed after the resuurection Jesus christ. Authority and Position are two different aspects. Peter was the Leader of Apostles/Disciples.I am not denying his position as the leader of disciples. What Leena Mathew wrote Peter was given authority to guide the sheeps. If Look at gospel of St.John 21:15-19 Jesus called Peter as Simon, son of John. He is not called as Kepha here and guiding the sheeps was not THE AUTHORITY given by Jesus to Peter. Jesus Reinstated Peter because of his denial before crucification.

                              I was only trying to show this and nothing else.I was not Supporting IOC but as A Christian I am intersted in Peace and Unity In The Church of Christ.Beacuse of the feud in Malankara many orthodox/jacobite christians left orthodxy and joined in other denominations My unreseved apology to the moderators for any confusion.

                              With Prayers
                              RinuSam
                              ID#4038

                              --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Rinu Sam wrote:
                              >
                              > Dear Leena Mathew
                              >
                              > You are talking against orthodoxy. There is no Special authority
                              > given to St.Peter by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the head of church(visible and invisible) Read Acts of Apostles Chapter 13 :1-3
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