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Glad Tidings - 'Orthodox-Jacobite United Meeting'

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  • Nakkolackal VL Eapen
    Glad Tidings - Orthodox-Jacobite United Meeting Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, like-minded clergy and laity from both sides met in the Public
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 11, 2009
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      Glad Tidings - 'Orthodox-Jacobite United Meeting'

      Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, like-minded clergy and laity from both sides met in the Public Library Auditorium, Kottayam to explore ways and means to achieve lasting peace in the church on July 24, 2009.

      Wider participation is anticipated at the next meeting, scheduled to take place at the same venue, on Aug. 22, 2009 at 2 pm.

      "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." (Mt.5:9) The peace initiative by children of God from both the factions needs to be supported and upheld by our sustained prayers. "More things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of." (Alfred, Lord Tennyson)

      Prayerfully,

      Nakkolackal V. L. Eapen,
      Austin, TX.(ID No. 4160)
    • Issac K Joseph
      Dear Eapen Indeed - Blessed are the peacemakers -. Now the question is who are these peacemakers? Are they really looking for a peace? In Malankara peace can
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 13, 2009
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        Dear Eapen

        Indeed - Blessed are the peacemakers -. Now the question is who are these peacemakers? Are they really looking for a peace?

        In Malankara peace can come in 5 minutes, if Devalokam group agrees on the following points.

        1. Throne of St Thomas' is honorific.
        2. Malankara Church is an integral part of the Universal Syrian Orthodox Church.
        3. Malankara Church is not autocephalous and independent and the Catholicose is not equal in status to the Patriarch of Antioch
        4. Patriarch of Antioch and all the east is the Supreme Spiritual leader of the Church
        5. The local head of the church in Malankara is the Catholicose which ordained by and accountable to the Patriarch of Antioch
        6. Amend the present all hanky-panky clauses in the present constitution were the relation of Malankara Church and mother church and her Patriarch is related.

        Else the peace will never going to materialized.

        Now on the referred meeting at Kottayam, how many was attend? What was the participation from both groups? How many participated from both side? Who was the moderator? I cannot tell whether this Chairman is Fr Kuriakose Pathiapallil - apparently on the Jacobite side - who longs for another 1958. I don't think other than this aged priest there were any Jacobite participants in this forum.

        Yes majority of the faithful in our Church wants peace, but not a repetition of 1958. "COODU VELLATHIL CHADIYA POOCHA PACHAVELLAM KANDALUM PEDIKKUM"

        Again if any peacemakers really come forth with honestly both sides must support them, else keep them away from the bay, they only look for their interest or they are a pawn of someone's hand who has some hidden agenda.

        "You can fool some people all the time, all people sometimes but not all the people all the time"

        In Christ
        Issac K Joseph
        # 0917


        --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Nakkolackal VL Eapen wrote:
        >
        > Glad Tidings - 'Orthodox-Jacobite United Meeting'
        >
        > Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, like-minded clergy and laity from both sides met in the Public Library Auditorium, Kottayam to explore ways and means to achieve lasting peace in the church on July 24, 2009.
      • Mathew G M
        Dear Mr Issac, When you ask, are they really looking for peace. The real answer is that we don t know. We have no way of knowing another person s true
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 15, 2009
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          Dear Mr Issac,

          When you ask, are they really looking for peace. The real answer is that we don't know. We have no way of knowing another person's true intention. Only God knows.

          We can easily make demands of someone else. If you do #1, #2, #3 etc then we can have peace. I am not saying that the demands are valid or invalid. All I am saying it is easy to make demands of others. The real question is, what can we offer. In other words can we say in order to achieve peace we are willing to do #1 , #2, and #3.

          Is there anything the Jacobite side is willing to offer. Or are we saying that we are perfect. The only way we can have peace is, if you accept everything that we say. Or are we saying some of the things are not perfect on our side and in order to achieve peace we are willing to change. If it is the latter, what are the things that we are willing to change ?

          If both sides can start talking about what are the things that they can offer, rather than make demands of the other side, we can easily have peace.

          In Christ,
          Mathew G M
          # 0929

          --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Issac K Joseph wrote:
          >
          > Dear Eapen
          >
          > Indeed - Blessed are the peacemakers -. Now the question is who are these peacemakers? Are they really looking for a peace?
          >
        • Geogy Abraham
          Dear Issac,   I agree with your statement. But Malankara Jacobite Syrian Christian Church and IOC should not unite. If such steps come it must be protested.
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 15, 2009
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            Dear Issac,
             
            I agree with your statement.

            But Malankara Jacobite Syrian Christian Church and IOC should not unite. If such steps come it must be protested. They are not straight forward people. Their main aim is to capture and proclaim all crosses they see thru their naked eyes.
             
            Praise the LORD.
             
            Regards,
            Geogy Abraham
            4186
          • Nakkolackal VL Eapen
            Dear Mr. I. K. Joseph, As forewarned in 2 Pet. 2:2, the way of truth is being reviled on account of fanatics who seek to perpetuate factionalism in our
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 16, 2009
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              Dear Mr. I. K. Joseph,

              As forewarned in 2 Pet. 2:2, "the way of truth" is being "reviled" on account of fanatics who seek to perpetuate factionalism in our church. Fanatics' love for their respective factions being greater than their love for the Crucified Lord, they are unknowingly in idolatry. And that is a sure recipe for disaster. Unless God the Holy Spirit intervenes decisively through the silent majority in the two factions, our church is doomed to be a desolate divided church for ever, paving the way for groups like the Christian Revival Fellowship to prey upon us.

              Any peace initiative is, therefore, most welcome. The meeting, referred to in my previous posting, was organized by Mr. Mammen Varghese of Manorama.  Rev. Fr. Kuriakose Pathiapallil chaired the meeting. Around a hundred believers from both factions were present. Prominent AMONG those who addressed the gathering are: Rev. Fr. (Dr.) Jacob Kurian, Rev. Fr. Varghese Varghese of Meenadom, Mr. A. M. Alexander (Ranni) and Advocate A. Z. Jacob. I do not know any one of them in person. The next meeting scheduled for Aug. 22, 2009 is expected to draw a great many believers from both sides.

              It is my honest conviction that the Lord will not forsake His bleeding church, but will heal it in inscrutably mysterious ways that are beyond our grasp if we act upon the promise in 2 Chron. 7:14. "If My people who are called by My name humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land," but in our case 'the church'. Who can resist the Lord's sovereign will for His Beloved Bride, the church? Satan is no match for the Conquering Lion of Judah.


              Prayerfully,

              Nakkolackal V. L. Eapen,
              Austin, TX.(ID.No. 4160)
            • Paul Joshy
              Dear All, It is indeed happy to see that “unity” meetings take place to solve the problem of Malankara Sabha. I have also seen the news about the meeting
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 17, 2009
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                Dear All,

                It is indeed happy to see that �unity� meetings take place to solve the problem of Malankara Sabha. I have also seen the news about the meeting in news papers and wanted to write some thing about it, but didn�t get enough time. Now I feel how history is laughing at the developments that has happened in the Malankara Church in recent times. History has produced great ironies to mankind while men always forget about past things and think in the present condition only. Karl Marx once said� history is not static which is always bound to change�. Now history is reversing!! And good to see current orthodox leadership is trying to rectify the mistakes and wrong doings committed by their forefathers. But lot of waters have flown through the Meenachil River near Old seminary in Kottayam. Now the descendants of Vattasseril Methran vigorously talking about �unity and peace� in the Church. But had Vattasseril Methran thought about �unity and peace� in the church the current problem would not have happened. Instead he sowed the seed for division in the church horizontally as well as vertically for his thirst for power and money and his adamant stand against �unity� led to setting up a new church (MOSC). He completely dashed away the vision and courage of his predecessor Pulikkotil thirumeni and piousness and loyalty to the Holy Throne of Antioch by St. Parumala Thirumeni. Now the descendants of Vattasseril have been undergoing a futile exercise to put in place �Unity� in the church which was out rightly rejected by him and endorsed division, court case, police lathicharge, closing down of the church and so on that MOSC is doing concurrently even now, but they are talking unity; ha ha haaaaa!!.

                And the only thing the Jacobites can do is pray for those who are now
                reaping the fruit of the sin sowed by Vattasseril Methran. Let us pray that � may Vattasseril thirumeni please forgive these �unity loving� people including Sanjose wallas, who talk about �unity in Orthodox communion�, who don�t know what vision(splitism) you upheld and how u divided the Syrian Church under your esteemed Malankara Methrapolitanship�

                J M. Paul
                #1040
              • Dr.George Kunju John
                Dear All, It is indeed right that the children of Malanakara church come closer to praise our Lord. Their sincere prayers would certainly be fruitful. Those
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 18, 2009
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                  Dear All,

                  It is indeed right that the children of Malanakara church come closer to praise our Lord. Their sincere prayers would certainly be fruitful. Those who nurture hatred and seperatism will whither away one day. Because those devil minded folks have captured the church for their existence. The clergy or annoiteds have no say in front of them.

                  Recently when I visited Kerala I wished to offer some useful gadjet in my parish church. I talked to the vicar and happily he suggested a material and asked me to talk to the trusty to arrange it. Even though I wanted to keep my name hidden while offering the material in the church, the trusty found out a lame excuse to stop such an expensive offering to the church and made it public too. Have any body ever heard of such actions in any church stopping the offerings ?

                  Pray for Holy Spirit to give good thinking to the church leaders.

                  With prayers

                  Dr.George Kunju John
                  0204


                  --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Mathew G M wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Mr Issac,
                  >
                  > When you ask, are they really looking for peace. The real answer is that we don't know. We have no way of knowing another person's true intention. Only God knows.
                  >
                • Apu Jose
                  Dear readers, Please, don t get carried away seeing the propaganda of a joint peaceful meeting between the some people (including priests) of the Holy Syriac
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 18, 2009
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                    Dear readers,

                    Please, don't get carried away seeing the propaganda of a joint peaceful meeting between the some people (including priests) of the Holy Syriac Orthodox Church (Jacobite Syrian Church) and the excommunicated schismatic Vattaserian faction (who calls themselves Indian " Orthodox " Church ). The said "peace" meeting does not have the official recognition of the Holy Church.Even the I"O"C hasn't made it official.There is no use even if they make it official as they are an excomminicated group without any Apostolic priesthood.

                    A decision can be taken only by the Holy Synod of the Holy Church . It cannot be taken by any member of the clegy( including bishops) or the laity of the Holy Church. This was the information given by a blessed Metropolitan of the Holy Church.

                    If anybody want to know more about I"O"C priesthood please refer to the Kalpana of Patriarch excommunicating Catholicose and the metropolitans who sided with him . Also refer to the Kalpana refering to the excommunication of the 2 bishops who fell from the Holy faith to Vattaserian Schism .In it he has asked the children of the Holy Church to keep away from the excommunicated faction . Please, see to it that they do disobey him.

                    Apu jose
                    Coimbatore
                    4096
                  • Padhikan
                    Dear Moderators, First of all why our people are referring the other faction as Orthodox and calling ourselves as saada Jacobites as if we have no touch of
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 18, 2009
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                      Dear Moderators,

                      First of all why our people are referring the other faction as Orthodox and calling ourselves as 'saada' Jacobites as if we have no touch of orthodoxy. Have some one to call them Methran faction and say they are a splinted group of rebels for the last 97 years!! And they will stay like that until the good Lord comes. Any doubt it???

                      The Holy Church is only one and the rebels are also a part of it. If they repent of their forefathers' sins, they are most welcome to come back to the real Orthodox Church. The talk about unity and everything else are their aspiration and it has been going on for long. Sometime ago I did talk to some of our brothers on the other isle and ask them to instigate the idea with their leaders to pave way for their come back. You what they said; "we do not have that much contact or resources to push through our leaders"; and gave their useless talk.

                      Whether it is Mr.Neerkolikkal or anybody else its not going to work because their group was born of illegitimacy. Who knows about whom he refers as fanatics.

                      The current talk is because the rebels cannot digest our recent unprecedented progress and also the Satan wants to push us back to 1958. May God forgive them.

                      Peace.
                      Padhikan
                      #476


                      --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Paul Joshy wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear All,
                      >
                      > It is indeed happy to see that "unity" meetings take place to solve the problem of Malankara Sabha. I have also seen the news about the meeting in news papers and wanted to write some thing about it, but didn't get enough time.
                    • Benny
                      Dear All. Thanks for the different good intention of the sub matter. My view is very simple..CHURCH , as per HOLY BIBLE is the body of JESUS CHRIST. , and if
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 21, 2009
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                        Dear All.

                        Thanks for the different good intention of the sub matter.

                        My view is very simple..CHURCH , as per HOLY BIBLE is the body of JESUS CHRIST. , and if we are true Christian , Since our lord Jesus Christ taught us to LOVE YOUR ENEMY , we are not supposed to find any human being as opponent. In other words we are supposed to be UNITED IN OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. If it is not happening , then we could try to see what is wrong as case study.

                        In my perception, Power & Money are the two major reasons behind all
                        factionalism and Groupism any where... If it is in Christendom, we need to understand that it is an indication of "Antichrist". the word
                        meaning in malayalam for "Aniti" is something which is going to happen in the end where as in English , it is something against JESUS CHRIST (Anti-christ). Many times,we could see, even deciples had shown humanly intention of who is supreme (a thirst of Power) among them and our Lord Jesus Christ taught them how to be supreme by washing their feets before crucification.

                        POWER & MONEY are the major culprits in any of the origin of problem.
                        Let us study what happened once Lord Jesus Christ got an offer of
                        KINGDOM'S Authority(POWER) ( not a piece of land...kingdoms !!) on the
                        test of temptation.

                        Lukose 4 - 5 - 8 - Temptation of Jesus Christ.

                        5The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all
                        the kingdoms of the world. 6And he said to him, "I will give you all
                        their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can
                        give it to anyone I want to. 7So if you worship me, it will all be
                        yours."

                        8 Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve
                        him only

                        As a Jacobite Christian my view is , UNITY AMOUNG CHRISTIANS IS NOT AT
                        ALL A BIG HURDLE, IF WE STAND BEHIND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO HAS BEEN SENT BY GOD THE FATHER WITH SO MERCY WITH GREAT PLAN BY SELECTING THE LINE THROUGH -Abraham - Ishach - Jacob - Judah.... TO SALVATE US, CURRENTLY LIVING , THE DEAD,AND THE PEOPLE YET TO BE BORN. A GREAT PLAN OF GOD THE FATHER ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH HIS BELOVED SON BY GIVING US A GREAT CHANCE TO ATTAIN 'FRUIT OF LIFE". THE FLOW IS CONTINUING WTH THE HELP OF HOLY SPIRIT'S PRESENCE IN THE UNIVERSE BY RELIEVING US IN OUR SORROW AND TO ENLIGHTEN US SPIRITUALLY. ....

                        But if we try a unification in the human way, then it would be a
                        HIMALAYAN TASK to accommodate/share the 'POWERFUL's " in suitable places and also to share the 'MONEY ' in one UNITED sack. This initiate would be a beginning of another rollover of the problem to the next centuary.. an voyage through desert without seeing the land of canan.

                        Then , WHAT IS THE SOLUTION : Better to go separately time being without any hatred and always serve the other without any reward with true Love with Jesus Christ ( To avoid hurdles of Money & Power blockage). For spiritual enhancement, Both (Jacobite and Orthodox ) can find a common stage for to enlighten the people spiritually by arranging 'Convention etc and also both churches has to utilize more time in Sunday's for Preaches based on deepness of Holy verses. If the respective priest's are incapable(anchoring in local stories) in delivering preaches, The respective authority should nominate preachers for the spiritual enhancement.

                        Yes , once the land is ploughed , and the word is rightly sowed ...then we can dream a great harvest.

                        May God bless all.
                        Thanks.
                        Benny
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                      • Joseph V.V
                        To all those in SOC who are in this group and those not in this group and those in IOC, Praise Be His Name,   It is nice to see there are people who talk of
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 30, 2009
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                          To all those in SOC who are in this group and those not in this group and those in IOC,

                          Praise Be His Name,

                          It is nice to see there are people who talk of peace (I did not say �unity') in our church; People who wish Our Lord and not human power to prevail on our church. Whether unity or not, what we need is peace, which can only come from Him and no human power can make or break it. I feel some who spoke on this issue forgot this aspect.

                          If anyone wants to know the real problem and the answer to the problem, please refer 1st Corinthians Chapter 6 Verses 1-9 (first part of verse 9). It is so clear there, we don't need any further explanation.

                          At the first reading we may not get the answer. Pray and read as many times till you get the answer. (I have read this so many times, whenever I hear something which is not suiting to us, the followers our savior and His teachings Christians, I read it again, and feet had we all read this and understood).

                          Let us pray to Him for His action, which is beyond our strength, power and imagination.

                          I have an example to sight. While I was in Bombay, though I had been going to both the SOC and IOC churches (at that time we were not divided as we are now). The Parish planned to re-build the church, were I used to go the most, which was the nearest to me, and started the work. From the time we started the work anti-social elements (let me use this word) started their work. They will destroy something or other, steal the cement, steel etc. in the night and it was an organized work to stop us from building the Church. All parish felt sad and some of the members were so furious. But the Vicar had just one statement to make. Don't worry. If they break we will make. We are building His House and He will work and the House will be built. Let us continue our work with our prayers. This activities and the words of the Vicar went on for few months. To all our surprise, from one day they stopped all their activity and in a short time we could complete that Church.

                          Had we taken it to the street or had chosen any other course of action including law, which naturally would have been as per human thinking and his belief in his useless power, but because of the belief of the Vicar, we would not have been able to make that church or at least would have gone for a long legal battle.

                          What we need is (both in SOC and IOC) more such type of people to say if they try to break we will make. Let me stress here few of the verses mentioned above.

                          Like in this example, I strongly believe one day He will work because it is His House and He won't allow anything bad to happen to it.

                          As we all know till He worked, things were different in Jerusalem Church. It was going on for years, He allowed it to happen but one day He worked and it was turning upside down in all aspects, and it did not take much time and all so powerful could only watch  and abide. I am longing for it and am sure about it.

                          Thanks for your patience
                          Let us pray for His prevalance
                          Joseph V. V.

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                        • Varugese C J
                          Dear All, Now-a-days the above subject is getting constant mention in SOCM. It is a fact that absolute unity will defenitely strengthen the body mass. But here
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 31, 2009
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                            Dear All,

                            Now-a-days the above subject is getting constant mention in SOCM. It is a fact that absolute unity will defenitely strengthen the body mass. But here lot more questions will be arisen - for WHOM, for WHAT and WHY etc. etc. Man learn from history. History do not make any mistakes, but historians make?

                            We all believe that the CHURCH is the BODY and CHRIST is the HEAD. If we all are the ORGANS of that BODY, different organs will have different functions.

                            The split in Malankara Church is not a new news to us. Since 16th century we witnessed it in intervals. Every time the Syrian Orthodox stand firm with its commitment to the true faith, and hence we could overcome the difficulties due to these splits. The law of natural justice was applied all those times by mutual consent. But this time that is not happening. By passing of time, always there are people who are willing to sell themselves rewarded for it, and hence we can't move ahead - as Patriarch Abraham (not the HH Patriarch) told once to his nephew Lot that "if you move left, I will move right" "if you move north, I will move to south". The propagators of unification must also remember BABEL, the great fort once the humanity ventured to reach HEAVEN.

                            Let us not make a conclusion whether a unity is possible or not. The
                            rivalary among the common faithfuls are not at all their among JSC and IOC barring a few pockets. Let us all pray Almighty to grant HUMILITY to the people leading both IOC and JSC.

                            With prayers,
                            CJ Varughese
                            # 1012
                          • Essahaak
                            Beloved in Holy Trinity!   Good...good..good...Bible says you are not suppose to be called Father,as there is only one Father- in Heaven, you are all
                            Message 13 of 13 , Sep 1, 2009
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                              Beloved in Holy Trinity!
                               
                              Good...good..good...Bible says you are not suppose to be called Father,as there is only one Father- in Heaven, you are all brothers...
                               
                              I am not referring to our spiritual fathers, they were remarkable through their deeds..I do believe in our saints irrespective of prejudice..all Syrian Christian Faith, no all Christian faith belongs to me..Then why you are against Holy Scripture?
                               
                              What I understood is all these quarrel, fighting, bloodshed is plainly due to money mongering...think on that..BUT with out money there is no fame!!! ..no body cares you...this is from my bitter experience...but now I am in good position,Gift of my Father in Heaven..so seek his bosom, am sure He will elevate you..
                               
                              Kingdom of God is unity in Jesus (Yashu)..Being a strong believer of Syrian Christian Tradition, we are not suppose to be a Judge, if you are pointing our somebody,beware four fingers are against you..LET HIM DECIDE..What is right and wrong....through chivalric nature we can find the beauty, enjoyment of Christian life..Think of our forefathers, saints,martyrs...
                               
                              In Jesus Love,
                              esahaak(Isaac)
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