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Can the Gulf Parishes/Congregations be under one separate Diocese???

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  • Thomas Mathew
    Thanks Mr. Mathew for sharing your views. I fully agree with you that there is difference in financial status between members in any area whether it is Gulf /
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 6, 2009
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      Thanks Mr. Mathew for sharing your views. I fully agree with you that there is difference in financial status between members in any area whether it is Gulf / India or any other place. Contribution is not on compulsion and if this is happening in your church then it is high time that you all get organized.

      I had the opportunity to serve our church as committee member and as
      well as in administrative level. In Kuwait we are more organized. As per general body's decision committee is not allowed to make house visit for monetary purposes, unless it is authorized by the Supreme Head His Holiness Patriarch.

      Church General body, has set a minimum amount for church eligible membership. This amount also is not taken compulsory, rather members willingly pay. Any member can opt not to pay, but then he will not be permitted to attend the general body. He can attend church and take part in all activity except attending general body and being part of any administrative post. But still we encourage all to register as a
      member and there is no prejudice between a member and an eligible member except that a member can not attend the General Body and a committee member. We all know that Church can not run or be maintained without the members contributing. Whoever can actively take part should take part and I do not see any flaws in the way we are functioning.

      We do not have any ill treatment from any Bishops and one thing I
      can assure you is that, there is no compulsory collection from any one so far. They may announce their need (if any). Whoever is willing to contribute can contribute. We all have the freedom to choose. So what is the harm in announcing?

      I belive the probelms you are facing has no relation to the appointment of the bishops.

      Best regards..
      Thomas
      ID # 4800
    • Alias.C
      Fellow Believer, First of all thanking Mr. Varkey, for putting forward this key issue of our Gulf parishes. As we all know material objectives and spiritual
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 6, 2009
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        Fellow Believer,

        First of all thanking Mr. Varkey, for putting forward this key issue of our Gulf parishes. As we all know material objectives and spiritual deeps cannot be placed in one basket. The only solution to this issue is "To be a Cow without the Milk" and this should acted from the layman to the Business category, by which we could save our churches from becoming Limited companies with CEO'S.

        Regards,

        Alias.C
        4108

        --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Varkey Titus wrote:
        >
        > Dear members,
        >
        > Some times I wonder our Church heirarchy's strategies on Gulf parishes.  Eventhough, on technical terms, still these parishes are directly under the spiritual administration of the Patriarch of Antioch & All the East, in effect it was implemented only upto 1993.  The parish administration matters were directly handled by His Holiness until that time and the parish committees were able to voice their opinion to His Holiness, on various matters. However, since 1994, due to the request (Or pressure??) from our Malankara Church heirarchy, the administration of these Gulf parishes were given to metropolitans of Malankara Synod.  Here on started the 'Step-Mother' attitude of our heirarchy to the 'Milking Cows' of Gulf. 
      • Mathew Thomas Kannathumuriyil
        Dear Mr. Thomas, Thank you for your note dated 7 June 2009. I am so sorry, I did not know that you are located in Kuwait. Kuwait is one of the richest country
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 7, 2009
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          Dear Mr. Thomas,

          Thank you for your note dated 7 June 2009. I am so sorry, I did not know that you are located in Kuwait. Kuwait is one of the richest country in the Middle East and those who are located in Kuwait has always a different view.

          In reply to your last paragraph, may I produce the following information…

          I am totally agree with Mr. Varkey Titus's comments that……

          "If the Gulf Parish Administration matters are directly handled by His Holiness by appointing a permanent Bishop for the Gulf Region, then the Parish Committee will be able to voice their matters / opinion directly to His Holiness through their Bishop and he will be able to contact His Holiness whenever he require". Also he will not approach the parishioners for frequent collections on various projects.

          If a Bishop is posted from Malankara for three years to the Gulf Parish, what interest he has towards the Gulf Parish / Parishioners. He will not be interested in the improvement / development of the Gulf Parish/s or the feelings of the Church members and his aim will be to collect the maximum from the Gulf Members within the short period (3 years) ie. `Milking Cows' and also the Malankara Hierarchy has a Step-Mother's attitude towards the Gulf Members.

          If a new Bishop is posted to the Gulf Region for 3 years then, his interest will be to bring a Priest from his own family or his own Diocese so that this Priest will be compelled to execute orders of the Bishop. He will act according to his own way and the interest of the Bishop without thinking the feelings of the Senior Members or the majority members of the Parish who had to sacrifice a lot for the formation of the particular Gulf Church. Members of the Gulf Parish/s are from the different dioceses from India ie. Angamaly, Suvishesha Samajam, Simhasana Churches, Knanaya Arch Diocese etc. If the newly appointed Priest belonging to the Northern or Southern Area, after his arrival in the Gulf, he will play some politics and influence the Northern or Southern Area people and create a split among the Church Members and form a Group. By playing these games he will get the majority members in the Church General Body and form a Committee with his own people so that anything can be decided through the Committee as per the interest of the Bishop or the Priest. If any of the Founder / Senior Members who are not belonging to this group and if he raise or protest anything in the General Body then he will be `Hit Listed'. After that the matter will be informed to the Bishop at Malankara and he will appear like a Special Officer and give some verbal warning / warning letter or ex-communicate (Mudakku) to the victim as per the direction of the Priest. In order to avoid these issues most of the members will have to suppress their feelings and get away from these issues.

          I am in the Gulf for the past 34 years and had lot of bitter experience.

          I am a very Senior Member of one of the popular Church in the Gulf and was in the Church Committee for several years during the initial stage of the Church, but now-a-days I am trying to get away from the Church Committee and the General Body Meeting because I am unable to tolerate this type of politics. My opinion is if the Gulf Churches can be controlled directly by His Holiness by appointing a Bishop (NOT A MALAYALEE BISHOP) and this Bishop will administer the Gulf Church Diocese without any partiality and will not have any special
          consideration to the members according to the region.

          MATHEW THOMAS KANNATHUMURIYIL
          ID NO. 3673

          --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Mathew wrote:
          >
          > Thanks Mr. Mathew for sharing your views. I fully agree with you that there is difference in financial status between members in any area whether it is Gulf / India or any other place. Contribution is not on compulsion and if this is happening in your church then it is high time that you all get organized.
          >
        • Mathew G M
          Dear Mr Mathew Thomas, Bishops are human too and are not perfect. It is our responsibility to pray for them, so that the Lord will strengthen them and allow
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 7, 2009
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            Dear Mr Mathew Thomas,

            Bishops are human too and are not perfect. It is our responsibility to pray for them, so that the Lord will strengthen them and allow them to teach the truth and lead the folk effectively.

            However it is wrong for us to think that Malayalee Bishops will have partiality but Non Malayalee Bishops are perfect and won't have any partiality or will not have any special consideration.

            I beg to differ. I will say Syrian or Arabic Bishops suffer from the same human weakness of Malayalee Bishops. They will also have their own favorites and their own special considerations.

            It is some of the human weeknesses of some of the Syrian bishops that has led to a division of the Syriac church in America, especially in California and the creation of the so called Bishop Gurgan in Europe.

            In Christ,
            Mathew G M
            0929


            --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Mathew Thomas Kannathumuriyil wrote:
            My opinion is if the Gulf Churches can be controlled directly by His Holiness by appointing a Bishop (NOT A MALAYALEE BISHOP) and this Bishop will administer the Gulf Church Diocese without any partiality and will not have any special consideration to the members according to the region.
            >
            > MATHEW THOMAS KANNATHUMURIYIL
            > ID NO. 3673
          • Mathew Kuruppan
            Dear moderator I do agree with the suggestion for a Diocese under H H patriarch and a Bishop who can communicate in Arabic, appointed by H H. Dubai church was
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 9, 2009
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              Dear moderator

              I do agree with the suggestion for a Diocese under H H patriarch and a Bishop who can communicate in Arabic, appointed by H H. Dubai church was formed with this idea and run by HH till Malankara Sinod grabed the area from the oversee of HH.

              Under the malankara, we experienced that except UAE other Gulf countries have one bishop and the Managing Committee have power except the spiritual issues.

              In UAE, as what described as the Milking Cow, have many Parishes(Financially sound and not) and the Bishops in charge always interferes in the administrative issues of the church, H G even went ahead with changing the constitutions with the approval from Damascus.

              Who to be blamed, the poor parishioners or the coccus surrounding the Bishop or the aspirants of Higher position from HH.

              Appreciated the formation of the open forum, if all can join hands and do a little for the well being of churches in Gulf , let us all raise our voice.

              Regards

              Mathen
              4159
            • Thomas Mathew
              Dear Mr. Mathew, Thanks for your opinion. I understand that you are going through a very difficult time suffering from frequent collections and groupism.
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 9, 2009
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                Dear Mr. Mathew,

                Thanks for your opinion. I understand that you are going through a very difficult time suffering from frequent collections and groupism. Even then, in my opinion, changing the bishop does not improve your situation.

                How can you guarantee that proposed NOT A MALAYALEE BISHOP will not approach the parishioners for frequent collections on various
                projects assigned to him ? He may also have projects, only difference is that it may be some other projects somewhere. I think the only solution is to exercise your freedom not to contribute, if you do not like to do so.

                You mentioned, that Achen is making group and get things done by majority. In a society everything will not happen the way we want. Normally any church follows the GB decision. For a few, that decision may not be the way they want it, but it is the way any church functions and we need to abide by it. Here also changing the bishop or achen will not have any major impact.

                Thomas Mathew
                ID -4800

                --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Mathew Thomas Kannathumuriyil wrote:
                >
                > Dear Mr. Thomas,
                >
                > Thank you for your note dated 7 June 2009. I am so sorry, I did not know that you are located in Kuwait. Kuwait is one of the richest country in the Middle East and those who are located in Kuwait has always a different view.
                >
                > In reply to your last paragraph, may I produce the following information…
                >
                > I am totally agree with Mr. Varkey Titus's comments that……
                >
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