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Re: IOC and Indian Partiarchate

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  • Arun
    There is a very validated comment, I have seen since I became a member of this forum. We do not need to worry about what the IOC doing as their internal
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 30 7:31 PM
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      There is a very validated comment, I have seen since I became a member of this forum. We do not need to worry about what the IOC doing as their internal affairs. We have to be alert  with they dont mess up with our parishes and its properties through the third rated tactics of encouraging the priests and bishops for cross-factioning as well as the fundamental rights of our constitution given as the right of an Indian citizen to believe in any religion  and keep the faith towards a spiritual leader and his spiritual supremacy.   

      Arun
      4162
    • Cijoy Varghese
      DEAR SIR We should ask universal Church to create legal &  Apastolic Indian Patriach under holy throne of PETER. Pope has several Patriach under him so can
      Message 2 of 13 , May 1, 2009
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        DEAR SIR

        We should ask universal Church to create legal &  Apastolic Indian Patriach under holy throne of PETER. Pope has several Patriach under him so can Patriach of Antioch.

        Cijoy Varghese
        4067
      • Philip Abraham
        Dear Mr. Mathew G M, I congratulate you for your mature, broad minded and hate-free message. You certainly have the Love of Christ within you. May God
        Message 3 of 13 , May 1, 2009
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          Dear Mr. Mathew G M,

          I congratulate you for your mature, broad minded and 'hate-free' message. You certainly have the "Love of Christ" within you. "May God Bless you."

          Regards,
          Philip Abraham,
          Saudi Arabia.
          ID No.4097
        • Issac K Joseph
          Dear Philip Please go through your owns words in different Indian orthodox Church Pvt Ltd company internet forums and judge yourself who is spreading hate
          Message 4 of 13 , May 3, 2009
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            Dear Philip

            Please go through your owns words in different "Indian orthodox Church Pvt Ltd company" internet forums and judge yourself who is spreading 'hate' messages.

            Quote

            1. Any person with common sense can know the malevolent motive behind
            the crafty `claims' advertisement of the `Puthen Kurish Society'
            over the Seminary...

            2. Indeed even the Crow can fly up-side down (Kakka malannu parakkum)
            when there are crafty administrators. What more can one expect when
            there are amateurish leaderships both at the `Puthen- Kurish Society'...

            3. 2) Nowhere in the world does the Patriarch experience such Pomp
            & glory as in India; leave alone his home country, where the so-
            called "Prince" Patriarch's very existence is not known to all. (We
            have a large group of Syrians working with us here in the Middle
            East. I had changed a lot in my views and opinions after getting to
            know them very closely, the so called "praised Seemakar", whom the
            innocent Kerala folks to this day consider as something mystical that
            they see once in a while- "Kandillae nalla poovam pazham polae veluthu
            erikunathu")....

            Unquote

            In Christ
            Issac K Joseph
            0917

            --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Philip Abraham wrote:
            >
            > Dear Mr. Mathew G M,
            >
            > I congratulate you for your mature, broad minded and 'hate-free' message. You certainly have the "Love of Christ" within you. "May God Bless you."
            >
            > Regards,
            > Philip Abraham,
            > Saudi Arabia.
            > ID No.4097
            >
          • Kochumon Mannicherry
            Dear Cijoy In best of my knowledge its against the canon law. Patriarchs are equal so its impossible to create a Patriarchate within a patriarchate. As they
            Message 5 of 13 , May 3, 2009
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              Dear Cijoy

              In best of my knowledge its against the canon law. Patriarchs are equal so its impossible to create a Patriarchate within a patriarchate. As they are equal in all right how will it work I don't know. The only exception is the fifth patriarch (metropolitan of Jerusalem) but these positions were created by general synod n such things exist now so who have the authority to create new patriarchate now I don think any one. We cannot follow catholic theory in this matter catholic concept change time to time for example they add many new concept(many of them controversial) in to faith. If we carry on lie that then we will not be Orthodox anymore. At the end of the day what difference it make? If we not satisfied under catholicose we will never going to be satisfied under a new Indian patriarch either. What matters is following the real faith not mere imitation of what some one else do? Indian church survived catholic persecution and Anglican invasion with out an Indian Catholicose or Patriarchate so what malankara church gained by having catholicose personally I believe it made us look unchristian power crazy people in front of others nothing more. Be humble is the best way to be true Christian not having thrones and wealth. We did not have the wealth we have before, but our church members were true Christians then. Now we don't care where the money coming from but as long its money we accept it and the person who give it regardless how he made it get all the importance. Who need the widow's penny?

              Kochumon Mannicherry
              1019

              --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Cijoy Varghese wrote:
              >
              > DEAR SIR
              >
              > We should ask universal Church to create legal &  Apastolic Indian Patriach under holy throne of PETER. Pope has several Patriach under him so can Patriach of Antioch.
              >
              > Cijoy Varghese
              > 4067
              >
            • Arun Mathew
              Mr. Joseph, I read the articles related to this topic and I would like to suggest that we, the Syrian Orhtodox Church members doesn t need to worry about
              Message 6 of 13 , May 5, 2009
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                Mr. Joseph,

                I read the articles related to this topic and I would like to suggest that we, the Syrian Orhtodox Church members doesn't need to worry about the internal affairs of Indian Orthodox church and its honourable Catholicose. If they decided to give their leader the title of Patriarch, Pope, Marpapa or whatever it is, we dont need to criticize that, since thats their internal matter and the Universal Syrian Orthodox Church doesn't have anything to do with it.I dont know how many church leaders reading the discussions in this forum, but if anyone reading it, let them make the smart decisions and be alert that the IOC is not going to mess up with our parishes and its property any more. Simultaniously, hire some intelligent attorneys and get our parishes and its properties thorugh the legal way. We do not need to respond to the same way as some of the Indian Orthodox Members commenting about us and our leadership.

                Because majority of that church members doesn't have any interest in church issues since they all know that they doing unfair. As they said, we just agree that we are PUTHEN KURISHU SOCIEITY and we are happy with that and they dont need to worry about that either. The Great Sree Narayana Guru worshipped the diety of Lord Siva and when he was criticized, he responded that he was worshipping Ezhava Siva. The truth is that today is ours and tomorrow is ours too.Our primary responsibility is to expand our church in the new horizons and make it as at least the second largest church in Kerala within the next couple of decades. Church leadership has the responsibility to consult the lawyers and find ways to prevent the cross-factioning of priests and how to legally face it if such an incident happen in the future as well as how to keep our property with us in the future occasions.
                 
                Arun Mathew
                4162
              • Philip Abraham
                Dear Issac, Thank you for the Rejoinder. Indeed, Mr. Mathew G.M. has the `Laissez-faire mentality . Not all can have it. That needs to be appreciated and
                Message 7 of 13 , May 6, 2009
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                  Dear Issac,
                  Thank you for the Rejoinder.
                  Indeed, Mr. Mathew G.M. has the `Laissez-faire mentality'. Not all can have it. That needs to be appreciated and that's why I went-out to congratulate him.

                  No offence please.

                  Regards,
                  Philip Abraham,
                  Saudi Arabia.
                  ID No.4097
                • J M Paul
                  Dear Philip Mathew, It should not be considered as a Laissez-faire mentality of Mr. Mathew, but to be considered as the real picture of the intention of the
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 10, 2009
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                    Dear Philip Mathew,

                    It should not be considered as a"Laissez-faire mentality' of Mr. Mathew, but to be considered as the real picture of the intention of the IOCians. You and other IOCians do have "fuedal mentality' that whatever you people think are the correct version as you always criticise Patriarch of Antioc and HB Thomas I Catholica while talking about "unity and Peace in Orthodox communion'. If you are a true cristian then you should apreciate and respect other church's leaders instead of speading venom against them. First you must teach the IOC leaders about the true version of the Cristianity(love others as you do yourself) then to interpret others view about the church matters
                    J M Paul
                    #1040
                  • Cijoy Varghese
                    Dear sir Thanks for response, Could you explain about Jadiku Thalavan, Arkodian, Malankara Matran which existed in our church . I read in one autobiography of
                    Message 9 of 13 , May 18, 2009
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                      Dear sir

                      Thanks for response,

                      Could you explain about Jadiku Thalavan, Arkodian, Malankara Matran which existed in our church .

                      I read in one autobiography of St. Eldo Mor Baselious of Kodamangalam that saint was Catholicose of East & he came in that capacity in response to a letter addressed to him in that capacity & not as a representative of holy throne. Could someone explain?

                      I believe that our church is a free independent & national church with Indian outlook from the time of Saint Thomas till now. If it is not true please correct me this is just a mail from a young member of church who likes to know more about and discuss about church I belong to.

                      I would also like to know if our Vettickal seminary library allows non students, members of our Church to use the library

                      Cijoy Varghese
                      4067
                    • Paul Joshy
                      Dear Cijoy, Could you give from which source you got such information about Mor Baselious? And it seems the knowledge you derived are from those who falsify
                      Message 10 of 13 , May 20, 2009
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                        Dear Cijoy,

                        Could you give from which source you got such information about Mor
                        Baselious?

                        And it seems the knowledge you derived are from those who falsify the facts for the convenient of misinterpreting history in their favour. Now a days IOC has been trying to portray pre-1912 saints who come from Antioc are theirs and teach that they had come to malankara independently and not by the interest of the Patriarch of Antioc. (See the statement made by Konat Achan during the Asianet debate on Thrikkunnathu seminary incident). This new realization was seemed to prove(though falsely) three things; firstly, the current IOC Catholica has natural lineage to the ancient Catholicose of the East/Mafrianate which was under the Patriarch of Antioc, that abolished in 1860 and revived in 1912 and the current Kottayam Catholica is the natural and real Catholica of the East who has direct, not subordinate, relationship with the Patriarch of Antioc; secondly, Catholicose of the East/Mafrianate had been working independently and had no hierarchical relationship with the Patriarch; and thirdly, the actual relationship of Malankara with Antioc got established only with the visit of Patriarch H H Pathrose III in 1876, the first Patriarch visited Malankara.

                        The new revelation is another Geebelsian strategy of the IOCian�s.

                        And the titles like Jadiku Thalavan, Arkodian, Malankara Matran are being used by the regional head of the Syrian Church(SOC or Jacobites) in Malankara from time to time. When Mor Abdul Jalleel Greegorious visited Malankara in 1665 he abolished the titles Jadiku Thalavan and Arkodian and enthroned it as Marthoma Methran and lately the bishop of Malankara Archdiocese is named as Malankara Methrapolitha and finally it became as Catholica, though Malankara Methrapolitha is still using by Orthodox and Jacobites (Metropolitan Trusty) because the bishop who holds that name are only entitled to control the financial matters of the church which was proclaimed by the Royal Court of Travancore.

                        J. M. Paul
                        #1040
                      • Cijoy Varghese
                        Dear sir I got this information from “Visuda Eldo Mar Baselious Bavayude Jevacharitram” published by K. V Varghese, K.G books, Pandalam, purchased from
                        Message 11 of 13 , May 24, 2009
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                          Dear sir
                          I got this information from �Visuda Eldo Mar Baselious Bavayude Jevacharitram� published by K. V Varghese, K.G books, Pandalam, purchased from Kothamangalam Kochupally bookstall

                          Cijoy Varghese
                          4067

                          --- On Wed, 20/5/09, Paul@... <Paul@...> wrote:
                          Dear Cijoy,

                          Could you give from which source you got such information about Mor
                          Baselious?
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