Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re : Thrikkunnathu Seminary Eyewitness Account

Expand Messages
  • Alex Jojo Joseph
    Dear Brethren, PRELUDE: It had been a real long time since I had written on many of our painful and hot issues, in this forum. In fact, I had restrained myself
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 28, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Brethren,


      It had been a real long time since I had written on many of our
      painful and hot issues, in this forum. In fact, I had restrained
      myself many a times not to mouth my feelings/anger on fellow beings
      and considered many of the posts as mere blabbering or sheer
      negligence. Above all, it had been a feeling of 'what change can
      happen' evenif I shout or remain silent. But, now, after reading one
      post in the Indian Orthodox mailgroup, I chose to respond.Infact, I am
      making myself rush through all other tasks expected from me, so that I
      can find time for keying-in this mail.This is not an instinctive
      reaction, but a well thought, deliberate action, and I feel this needs
      to be shared with a wider audience.


      A posting titled "Thrikkunnathu Seminary Eyewitness Account" which had
      come in the Indian Orthodox Forum, which had been written by one Mr.
      V. Varghese Mathew, Angamally.

      With all due respect to you brother Varghese, I agree to disagree with
      you on your words from the said post. Rather, I choose to delve into
      the lines and understand the same. This is no reciprocation and plz
      dont get me wrong here. If I take your words : Myself, who feel proud
      to be one among your "Puthencruz Society", dont even think that there
      will be any change in the your thought process on seeing my response.
      To add, I further do realize that, not just you, but all those who
      associate with your lines of thought, who feel happy in keeping this
      already fossilized and absurd theological fascinations, are never
      going to change at all.

      But still, I chose to keep reading and responding. Maybe because I do
      appreciate the fiction in your post. Great work of art !

      (I have attached the original post below, as an addendum to this mail)


      Is that right to respond for a post in IOC forum in SOCM forum ? Am I
      justified for my response.

      My reasons are
      - I am not sure how many of us are seeing the IOC posts
      - I dont have a habit of writing to IOC forum.
      -- I chose to be a happy member to read the orthodoxy/theology
      discussions there. Many of the members of IOC forum, are also
      personally known to me, I do like their views on subjects related to
      faith/bible/orthodoxy etc.
      -- And, I always remain there as a silent spectator in the 'hot'
      discussions as I do in the other IOC discussions. Just because its
      anyone's right to voice their thoughts. Let that be at the top of
      their voice, especially when there are people to listen.
      - All my posts (whether serious,silly,questioning,personnel or
      debating) had been here and I want it to be here
      - I feel more people should just read and enjoy the fiction in the
      original post, which is my subject for this response
      - Finally, I am sure, this message with reach all those eyes, both from IOC or SOC forums


      1. >> Eyewitness Account <<

      Happy to know that you were there inside the church, near the tombs
      of our holy fathers all through the day, so that you could give this
      'eye witness writeup'. I do appreciate your dedication and effort.

      2. >> unfairness on the part of Judiciary<< >>all ended well<<

      Its great to know that you also do accept that our judiciary is
      unfair. This had been one argument which the Jacobites had been
      raising from good old Nariman days! No one noticed. Now, atleast when
      there is a fell that its getting paid back, this acceptance,
      eventhough late, is always welcome.

      As the oft repeated war strategy goes, if you cannot defeat the enemy
      now, wait for your turn, make yourself mightier, and strike at the
      right point. When IOC had everything (not denying the fact that it
      still has) ie, money, power,influence and political blessing, JSOC had
      been in shatters. It was a painfull realization that, to make others
      even listen to us, we need to first stand on foot, establish ourself,
      make our fellowbeings powerful, be influential, be united as a
      votebank to negotiate for political blessing and then strike hard when
      the iron is hot.

      UDF with Ommen Chandy on steer may not be able to give a helping
      hand, since Indian democracy is all about opportunism, money and
      negotiation. The only opportunity for JSOC is then LDF. So even if its
      Achumman on lead, we have to find our way through. This is no child's
      game, but the same old brains which you guys had been using all through.

      3. >> Court verdict on 30th January which in all probability will be
      in favor of Puthencruz society<< >>Money Politricks <<

      Thanks for the wish. Hope it becomes a reality.For this is what we
      had been praying all along. As I had mentioned above, even if it is
      'money' or 'political tricks' or for all that matter 'blackmailing, as
      in one of the earlier judicial verdict', let it be. We learned this
      art from IOC and now we are mastering it.

      And for those influential groups in IOC, who are PhDs in this
      particular art, do have the option of filing another series of
      petetions till the SC of India with all blessings from your dean of
      this college of art. This can mean that the Thrikkunnath issue will
      prevail for another 50 years, in court and litigations. Within this
      time, everything will be just ruins and will be beyond repair. As you
      please !!

      4. >> many people have the habit of going to their own church every
      Sunday and later attend the feasts in other churches <<

      You said it.Yes, this is exactly the point to be made. Thrikkunnath
      Seminary is an 'other' church for IOC. You can manage to keep the
      habit of attending qurbano at some other 'own' church, wherever it is,
      and can find time to visit and attend the 'feasts' in 'OTHER' churches
      like Thrikkunnath Seminary. Same is what we do with Parumala Church. I
      had made sure to offer my prayers at the tomb atleast once in every
      month, when I had been in Kerala. But, for those people who 'own' this
      Thrikkunnath Seminary, whose forefathers had toiled for the
      establishment of the same, can do nothing but wait, pray and fight for
      rights to open the church.

      5. >> incense was offered only at the tomb of late HG Dr. Philiphose
      Theophilos <<

      Surprising (for me) since I had always wondered at the great
      stage-management capability of IOC faction. In my simple thoughts, I
      had expected a melodramatic performance and avid demonstration of
      so-called rock-solid faith at the tombs by IOC core-team. And, here is
      where I accept my failure. It agained proved that we are just kids
      when it comes to making news. Its a learning indeed !

      Further, I neither want to make any remarks nor explanations on this
      premeditated and conspicuous action. A question which had left my mind
      clock-ticking from this incident is that "Where are we heading when we
      decide to seperate-out, share and assign saints and holy fathers?".
      Reminds me of a comic scene from one of the malayalam movie
      (chandranudikkunna Dikkil) where Innocent moves an incense stick
      towards Christ's photo and asks Christ to take as much incense as he
      wants so that only left overs are received by other gods !!

      6. >> Murmering to aids << >>Kuppayam<< >>Masanapsa<< >>Maphiranite<<

      Good fiction. Definitely has a way of putting things eventhough there
      is lot more which could be improved. Appreciable attempt to blend
      sarcasm, irony and imagination to a seemly illogical plot. Keep
      writing, its not too far to reach an IOC theologian / Devalokam
      publiction editor stature.

      7. >> Poor enthusiastic journalist <<

      Even MM journalists needs to be classified here. The snap of our Bava
      (with the Censer in hand) was published by them. Anyway, not to debate
      : But, it seems too difficult for me to digest the fact that someone
      who believes in orthodoxy, who understands the difference between the
      public celebration and Anaphoras, claim as an achievement when Censer
      was blocked by law !! Great work of (demi)god(s) !

      Usage of "Kinnam Kattathu" kollam. Isthaayi. Ennal mukalil
      paranjathinaano parayunne "Murthyekkal valiya Shanthi" ennu ?

      8. >> carried Patriarchal flags <<

      Noting but and invite for you to come to southern dioceses of IOC to
      see the catholica flags being used ! Its just that fact. South, means
      majority with IOC and North means, JSOC ! Plain statistics. Raison
      d'ĂȘtre - we all know, the power centres of bygone days !!

      9. >> As a final note, things went of peacefully << >> many were
      smiling at our faithful <<

      Good that there is an acceptance that opening the churches which had
      been closed down is what is meant by 'peace'. Its not many, but all of
      us will smile at each other. Just because we belong to two factions
      doesnot mean we will be absolute strangers. That we will not love each
      other. Once the above meaning of peace is understood by the IOC power
      mongers, problem will be half solved.

      Yes, I am not keeping a closed eye here. JSOC also needs some changes
      for sure.

      Unless we learn from the world, where orthodox churches co-exist, we
      cannot be peaceful. Lets understand that we are very much two
      different churches now. Like RCC and JSOC, it should be IOC and JSOC.
      The differences may be Ecclesiological which was and is superscribed
      with theology and faith. Now, since the divide is existing, lets not
      make it wide deliberatley and perish on both ends. We can accept each
      other, leave the courts and co-exist. let all churches be opened and
      be shared. The majority gets the pocession and minority gets their
      rightful share and also aid to be established, from the mother church.
      I know its an utopian dream. But man is not complete without dreams !!

      10. >> no Syrians but are Arabs <<

      I always understood that it is the respect towards the holy church,
      the body of Christ, that matter. Not that where its geographical
      location is !!

      if this is the case, if someone dont like Kottayam, just for reason X
      or Y, does that mean he needs to change his faith and move to a
      different Christian denomination ?

      FOOTNOTE :

      Any seemingly harmless, but coherently misleading and intentionally
      venomous remarks can be dangerous. Extremely dangerous that it can
      provoke even the acclaimed introvert to react. We had been doing this
      for ages. Until unless we stop the same and come out of the shell of
      brain-deads, its the debate that will prevail ! Only the debate ! And
      mind you, if decided to do so, there are many more out there who can
      do this better than all of us.

      St.Mary's JSO Cathedral, Queen's Road, Bangalore
      St.George JSO Cathedral, Kavumbhagom, Thiruvalla
      Member ID # 0910


      Due to the grace of Lord Almighty, this year's Feast passed peacefully.

      Even though there was unfairness on the part of Judiciary, all ended
      well. Now we are waiting on the Court verdict on 30th January which in
      all probability will be in favor of Puthencruz society. Money Politricks.

      One of the points that will be brought to the court will be the number
      of Puthencruz society faithful who prayed at the Tombs were more! It
      is a fact that many people have the habit of going to their own church
      every Sunday and later attend the feasts in other churches if it is on
      a Sunday. The allotted time for our Church was from 7.00am to 11.00am.
      By the time many of our people who were not aware of the timings came,
      the allotted time was over and they went with the society members
      after 1.00pm to offer prayers at the Tombs. A few
      Patriarch fanatics didn't like it and unnecessary tensions were
      created. But those who came in the morning to the Chapel attended the
      Holy Qurbana and took part in the doopa prarthana which was conducted
      by our Bishops according to Status-quo. Since it will be a violation
      to the court order, incense was offered only at the tomb of late HG
      Dr. Philiphose Theophilos.

      After 1.00pm, society members came to the Tomb after being charged up
      by HB Thomas saying his time to conquer the Seminary like the
      Israelites is nearing, once again showcasing that he is not going to
      follow any orders if it is against his liking. The government
      authorities made it clear to the Society members, there will be only
      Prayers and no other activities like offering incense or Holy
      Qurbana will be allowed. Metal dictators were also installed.

      After one batch of the Puthencruz Bishops came and prayed at the Tomb
      and left,HB came to offer prayers along with a group. HB was murmuring
      to his aids on the way to the Tomb. One aid carried a heavy red cloth
      which was later realized as HB's Kappa. Another carried a bag which
      was detained by metal dictator. It had a Cup & Chalice, and Sensor
      etc. On reaching the tomb HB started putting the Kappa. Now may be
      according to the latest Antiochian tradition while offering
      prayers at the Tomb, you don't have to remove the black rob the Bishop
      wears on top of the Red rob and wear a white kuppayam before putting
      Kappa. Also the head cover which is part of the Kappa of a Bishop is
      not needed and Masanapsa is enough. May be this could be one of the
      latest rights given to the Maprhiyana of Malankara.

      After putting the robs HB started asking for the items which he was
      not aware were detained by the Police but the people with HB were
      hopeful it will arrive soon. However, they couldn't spend more than 10
      minutes at the tomb since the police kept an account of the time with
      a stop watch. Finally HB had to return - Mission
      Accomplished.......... Last year due to the benevolence of the
      Ministers, HB could swing the sensor at the Tomb without fire, this
      time there was no such privilege since the Court was involved. The
      Police returned the items that were detained while the group came back
      and the feelings on their face could be well summarized "Enney kandal
      kinnum kattathanennu thonnumo".

      Now turning to the news paper reports, it appears the journalist of
      Kerala Kaumudi was the one who carried the Sensor and the journalist
      of Deshabhimani has lit the fire in it before giving it to HB for
      offering incense since they have reported doopa prarthana was
      conducted. Poor enthusiastic journalist does not know the fact, if
      these reports are brought to court it will go against the Society
      members. The report of the Vishwasa samrashakan is a class apart. The
      facts of their report can be vouched with the write-up on a photo of
      HB & Co returning from the church is reported as entering the church.
      The sole intention of this Puthencruz society publication is to
      instigate rivalry and vengeance amongst the faithful.

      There was also a report with regard to our people shouting slogans and
      disturbing the crowd. The fact is, after the time for our people was
      over by 11.00am many people started leaving for their homes but the
      Police prevented them from going and asked them to remain at the
      Seminary until 5.00pm. The Society members were to arrive only from
      1.00pm and there was more than 1000 police. Obviously people were
      stranded and many had to remain as detainees till 5.00pm. As a result
      a few of our people protested with slogans, but later spent their time
      in prayers until 5.00pm at the Chapel. The total faithful belonging to
      both the factions put together who attended the feast could be around
      two thousand.

      I have seen people coming in procession to the Tombs with, Cross,
      Candles, ornamental umbrellas, and flags that represent Saints and
      Martyrs of the church. But except for one person who carried a cross
      most of the other Society members carried Patriarchal flags while
      entering the Tomb to show their Patriarch is above the Saints and Martyrs.

      As a final note, things went of peacefully and I could see that the
      Society faithful are slowly coming into terms with reality as many
      were smiling at our faithful who were sitting inside the chapel
      compound. But unfortunately the majority is being trapped and has
      fallen in to those who teach and believe that, first Antioch came into
      being, Antioch was with God and Antioch is God. Will
      they ever know that the so called Patriarchs who they venerate are no
      Syrians but are Arabs. Since there is lot of similarity between Arabic
      and Syriac language the poor Sathyavishwasi thinks that what they
      speaks is all Syriac. Infact what relation the Malayalee Christian
      have for Syriac language is similar to the relation the Arabic
      Christians have for Syriac. Nothing more.Unfortunately the Antiochian
      Satyavishwasi is not ready to accept the fact the
      majority of the few hundred people who speak Syriac as their mother
      tongue belong neither to the Syrian Orthodox Church nor to any
      Christian denomination. Same is the case with the liturgy and
      vestments we use. No one has got any patent rights. If we have got
      anything from Antioch, they have been borrowed from other churches in

      Meanwhile, please pray for an impartial judgment on the Thrikkunathu
      Seminary issue so that it leads to a permanent peace amongst the
      warring factions of our church so that all faithful can come and offer
      prayers together without any separate timings in future.
    • Sabu Alias
      ... Brother congrats for your effort to expose the man of IOC in reference.. This man is a habitual liar . You can verify it from his postings in IOC. Dont
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 29, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        >"but coherently misleading and intentionally venomous remarks
        >can be dangerous. Extremely dangerous that it can provoke even
        >the acclaimed introvert to react. We had been doing this for ages"

        Brother congrats for your effort to expose the man of IOC in reference.. This man is a habitual liar . You can verify it from his postings in IOC. Dont worry IOC itself is misleading its believers. So we can forget this IOCian. IOC is/was cliaming that they are giving due respect to Our Fathers entombed in Thrikkunnath Seminary. Now on 26-01-2009 we saw that respect!!. They were so afraid (due to respect) that their leaders didnot even cast an eye on those holy tombs!. For IOC this is not a new thing. Hypocrazy and crookedness is in thier blood. So expect more.

        Sabu Alias
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.