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Re: Thrikkunnathu Seminary- Some realities

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  • Johnson
    Shlomo to all, As a result of the intercession of St.Valiya Thirumeni, the faithful could enter the revered place and pray on the St. s 56th Dukhrono. Thanks
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 27, 2009
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      Shlomo to all,

      As a result of the intercession of St.Valiya Thirumeni, the faithful
      could enter the revered place and pray on the St.'s 56th Dukhrono.
      Thanks to the Govt. for taking a non partisan decision.

      On this occasion I would like to highlight certain points which our
      lawyers should take up on 30'th when the IOC case's hearing would be
      called.

      1) All the time IOC say that both the Seminary and the Church belong
      to them. To support this claim they say and declare that the fathers
      who are entombed there are their fathers or common fathers. They
      celebrate the feast of these fathers !!!. Then when the Govt.who are
      the current custodian of the closed church allowed 4 hours to them
      to conduct intercessionary prayers at these father's tombs why they
      did not enter the holy tomb's place and conducted dhoopa prarthana?.
      Instead they prayed at the tomb of their bishop, Mar Theophelos
      only. The niyukthan was heard saying (as reported by news papers)
      that they did not enter at the tombs of their " highly revered
      common fathers " or the tomb of their " to be Saint" Valiyathirumeni
      becuase of standing legal issues!!!!.

      This reveals their hypocracy. They conduct the feast of these
      fathers to show the world and to cheat the faithful and just impress
      them but they do not respect them or pray for / through them. HAD
      THEY HAVE ANY RESPECT TO ST. VALIYA THIRUMENI, LATE .DR. THEOPHILOS
      WOULD NOT HAVE ALLOWED HIS PET DOG INTO THE SAINT'S SACRED ROOM.

      Our lawyers should highlight this point with the support of news
      clippings that they do not respect these fathers nor pray at their
      tombs but only want to hold the property. The blind followers of IOC
      if any from the Angamaly diocese or any one who respect Valiya
      thirumeni should recognise the real motive of their leadership and
      exit from the evil group.

      2) Niyukthan said in a press conference that 'Avakasham illathavar
      prarthana nadathi'. What do he mean? Any one who wants to pray
      should take a consent from Devalokam?.

      3) Though the St.Mary's church remains closed I have seen IOC
      priests praying at Dr. Theophilos' tomb on any day. They come to the
      Seminary and enter the church premises freely. This means that only
      the Jacobites are prohibited to pray at their fathers' tomb? Why the
      Govt. is not protecting the status quo impartially?.

      Again I feel that the law enforcing authorities and the judiciary to
      understand that the status quo should be given for the group /
      procedure and not to any person. If a person defects from the oath
      then how the status quo is maintained if when is allowed to continue
      in the same post?.

      If our lawyers are sincere to the church and the judiciary is not
      blind we can win the case.

      In his love

      Johnson Baroda
      #2335
    • Cijoy Varghese
      Dear sir Wwe have to constitute a legal commitee on all malankara basis to look into  ownership documents of all churches & properties of our church to make
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 28, 2009
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        Dear sir

        Wwe have to constitute a legal commitee on all malankara basis to look into  ownership documents of all churches & properties of our church to make them legally correct.

        In such a way that no outside church or persons is able to make a claim on our property.

        Earlier when metropolitians deserted we lost property this should not happen again

        Cijoy Varghese
        Allapra church
        Kandanad
      • Bibu Philip Matthew
        Dear All The news that High court has dismissed the case by IOC prohibiting Jacobites the real owner from entering seminary is most welcome. Court has given
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 28, 2009
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          Dear All

          The news that High court has dismissed the case by IOC prohibiting Jacobites the real owner from entering seminary is most welcome. Court has given interim justice.

          As I told you earlier politicians and media has limit and they will stand neutral in public for votes and business, they cannot provide a solution ,only court can give us justice. I understand Jacobite Syrian church never want to drag it to court as a principle, that we Jacobites will not approach the court first, but IOC has taken it to court and have utterly failed in the case. This has given us a temporary legal solution and helped us.

          Trikkunath seminary belongs to Jacobite Syrian church and we have all legal documents to prove it ,silence is not an option when things are ill done,we should not be hesitant in approaching court for a noble cause, H.B.Catholicos Thomas-I should not feel bad in  approaching court to execute will of former Jacobite bishops if necessary to prove ownership legally. I repeat fighting for a noble cause is not a sin, for false prophets who violate Shalmootho ,will resist by all means. Similarly Jacobite church should get the control of Mor Athanasious High school in Nedumbassery as its real owner according to the registered will of Jacobite bishop Mor Gregorios Vayaliparambil is Jacobite Syrian Church .

          Vayaliparambil Itty Mathu was the treasurer in charge of Trikkunath seminary construction in 1903 and Mor Gregorios Vayaliparambil inaugurated the seminary in 1957 with new building,we have long association with Jacobite church and seminary since its construction. Vayaliparambil Matthew Matthew, a government servant was the architect who supervised the construction of some new buildings in seminary and he was an adviser to St.Athanasious Paulose. We have built it for Jacobites Syrian Church using the money of Jacobites loyal to Holy throne of Antioch only and not for false bishops and trespassers.

          But if Jacobite church as the real owners should get permanent ownership, we have to make it a legal issue, by applying correct legal procedure and not a democratic issue which will lead to a law and order issue ultimately, giving upper hand to political leaders, who will always take a neutral stand as a popular way. Media also wants it to be a political issue,so that they can have debates which will be a good time pass for channel.

          Only a court can approve our ownership as the final authority and the only solution is to prove our ownership in a court, otherwise this issue will remain for ever though we will have right to enter church during annual feast,once a year. Our Church leaders should deal this, the legal way for a permanent real solution. Catholicos HB.Thomas-I and metropolitan of Angamaly has to realise that the only solution is by court and our reluctance in moving to court as a principle (this principle is good but by applying this principle we are in a way not claiming the ownership) will only create more and more law and order issue bringing disgrace to Christianity and Jacobite church. There will be pressure on us not to follow the legal way. If our intention is permanent ownership we must follow the legal way immediately.

          We are now following a policy of appeasement in a way by not going for the correct permanent solution. For the Jacobite masses entering the seminary once a year may be sufficient, but for real Jacobite they need a permanent solution. Otherwise Every January we have to claim ownersip, making it a law and order problem for entry.This is my personal opinion.

          Let The Truth Prevail.
          Bibu Philip Matthew
          Vayaliparambil Pynadath
          0074
        • Thomas Varghese
          Dear Johnson You may aware that there was an agreement between orthodox and Jacobites regarding the praying at the tombs on 2005. The agreement contains( I
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 28, 2009
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            Dear Johnson

            You may aware that there was an agreement between orthodox and
            Jacobites regarding the praying at the tombs on 2005.

            The agreement contains( I think, As per jacobite request) that no
            orthodox priest should offer "Dhoopam" at these three bishops tombs.

            Since orthodox church always was telling JSC to abide by these
            agreement, It will be very difficult to present the case further if
            they themselves contradicts this agreement.

            This is the simple reason.

            Thanking you

            Thomas
            #2316

            --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Johnson wrote:
            >
            > >
            > 1) All the time IOC say that both the Seminary and the Church belong
            > to them. To support this claim they say and declare that the fathers
            > who are entombed there are their fathers or common fathers. They
            > celebrate the feast of these fathers !!!. Then when the Govt.who are
            > the current custodian of the closed church allowed 4 hours to them
            > to conduct intercessionary prayers at these father's tombs why they
            > did not enter the holy tomb's place and conducted dhoopa prarthana?.
            > Instead they prayed at the tomb of their bishop, Mar Theophelos
            only"
          • Mathew
            Mr.Johnson, You may not aware that there was an agreement between the Orthodox brothers and us regarding the seminary issue which is to keep the status
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 29, 2009
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              Mr.Johnson,

              You may not aware that there was an agreement between the
              Orthodox brothers and us regarding the seminary issue which is to
              keep the status quo(existing state)is only a temperory agreement. The
              status quo has to be kept untill the court has finalized the issue
              regarding the ownership of the seminary and the church.But there is a
              question still existing. Was this agreement approved by any legal
              system in India after that? Because there was a court order during
              the close out of the church that the status quo has to be kept. That
              was in 1977(I believe)The status quo in 1977 means the manager is our
              beloved Mannaraprayil Achen and the Angamaly Metropolitan is
              Philipose Mar theophilose Thirumeny. Was this status quo kept by our
              beloved brothers in Orthodox Church and its respectful leaders? But
              after 1977 Status Quo has been repeatedly violated.

              1) Orthodox brothers restructure the seminary building and start a chapel inside the seminary

              2) Beloved Mannaraprayil Achen has been removed and beloved Bobby Varghese Achen replaced him

              3) Theophilose thirumeny entered in to eternal life and beloved Paulose Mor Pakomiose replaced him

              4) All the bishops and the regular priests of the orthodox church
              entering in to the seminary SINCE 1977 and denying our bishops and
              priests to enter in to the seminary

              5) Beloved Orthodox leaders kept forty people inside the seminary and named as 'THEOLOGY STUDENTS'.

              Who is violating the status quo? If there is a decision to keep the
              status quo, it has to be the state of 1977 that Mannaraprayil achen
              as the manager of the church and immediate discontinuation of the
              chapel functioning inside the seminary untill the court has to
              finalize the issue. There is no other bishops or priests can enter in
              to the church or seminary from both factions untill the problem is
              resolved through the legal system. Untill then let Mannaraprayil Achen (Media Maniach) take the control.

              I request the attorney who is representing our church in the court
              has to read all these postings also. Thank you,

              Mathew
              Oklahoma
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            • Johnson
              Dear Mr. Thomas V Shlomo I am not aware of any such agreement which is binding to the faithful. But I have a question. If your leadership is honouring a so
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 30, 2009
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                Dear Mr. Thomas V

                Shlomo

                I am not aware of any such agreement which is binding to the
                faithful. But I have a question. If your leadership is honouring a
                so called agreement of 2005 why can't you honour the probated wills
                of founders and former custodians of the said Church and Seminary
                which are legally standing?.

                The real and true fact is that your leadership do not have any
                respect to these saintly fathers but only want to hold the property
                by any means. You may not understand the tears of true followers of
                them because you always believe in money and might. Otherwise why
                Dr. Theophilos was buried there against his wishes?. Didn't you read
                the letter written by your own Mannaraprayil Cori?. So please don't
                try to be smart. Smartness in this world may not stand correct on
                the day of last judgement if you believe in His Words.
                Try to think rationally and in the light of Holy Scripture.

                In his love

                Johnson
                #2335

                --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Varghese wrote:
                >
                > Dear Johnson
                >
                > You may aware that there was an agreement between orthodox and
                > Jacobites regarding the praying at the tombs on 2005.
                >
              • Sbu Alias
                Brother, Johnson the said agreement itself is a clear indication of the true nature of IOC. Had they considered the entombed fathers as theirs, they would not
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 1, 2009
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                  Brother, Johnson the said agreement itself is a clear indication of the true nature of IOC. Had they considered the entombed fathers as theirs, they would not have conceeded to such an aggreement. They need their brothers / neighbours property. For that they will come to any agreement as a Mammon worshipper is not afraid of God.

                  Sbu Alias
                  3323
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