Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Thrikkunnathu Seminary- Some realities

Expand Messages
  • Mathew
    There is another Perunnal has been completed and the seminary issue remains unresolved and the Orthodox and Jacobite churches are still keeping their
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 25, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      There is another Perunnal has been completed and the seminary issue
      remains unresolved and the Orthodox and Jacobite churches are still
      keeping their perspective about the ownership of the seminary. During
      these circumstances, as a regular parish member of the Jacobite
      church, I would like to place a suggestion about how to proceed in
      the seminary issue in the future, which I would like to invite the
      comments and feedbacks from the other members also. The Jacobite
      church is always reluctant to legally proceed in order to get the
      seminary back to our church. The opposite faction is using plenty of
      money and lawyers to twist the rules and regulations in order to get
      our churches and its property. We have to effectively prevent these
      actions through the legal way.

      1) The constitution of 1934 and 2002 are not applicable to the
      Thrikkunnathu Seminary since the Seminary was established long years
      back before these two constitutions.

      2) There are different wills which were created and registered
      in accordance with the laws of the land regarding the ownership and
      how the seminary has to be ruled.

      3) The supreme court verdict that the parish churches are
      belonging to the parish members.

      4) So the Attorney has to request the court to convene
      a) Either a meeting of the parish members who were the members
      of this church during the time it was get closed and determine how
      the seminary and church has to be ruled in the future.
      b) Or to convene the Pallyprathipurushayogam of the churches
      which were existed during the time of this seminary creation and
      determine how to rule this seminary.

      This is the possible resolution of this issue and the church has to
      take the legal initiative in order to get our property back to our
      church. Medias and public opinion are largely influencing the legal
      system during this modern age. So we can effectively use all our
      resources to prove that we are the real owners of the seminary in the
      public. We can use the Will Pathrams, Mannaraprayil Achen's Letter,
      Different Paper clippings, Different Photos etc in order to do so.
      But organized and effective steps are needed to get our church back
      to our community.

      Mathew
      ========================
      From the desk of the Moderator:

      Please sign your messages with member ID. If not having a member ID, please send your details including contact number to moderators
      (SOCM-FORUM-owner@yahoogroups.com)and obtain a member ID BEFORE POSTING ANY MORE MESSAGES in SOCM. Thank you for your cooperation.
    • Johnson
      Shlomo to all, As a result of the intercession of St.Valiya Thirumeni, the faithful could enter the revered place and pray on the St. s 56th Dukhrono. Thanks
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 27, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Shlomo to all,

        As a result of the intercession of St.Valiya Thirumeni, the faithful
        could enter the revered place and pray on the St.'s 56th Dukhrono.
        Thanks to the Govt. for taking a non partisan decision.

        On this occasion I would like to highlight certain points which our
        lawyers should take up on 30'th when the IOC case's hearing would be
        called.

        1) All the time IOC say that both the Seminary and the Church belong
        to them. To support this claim they say and declare that the fathers
        who are entombed there are their fathers or common fathers. They
        celebrate the feast of these fathers !!!. Then when the Govt.who are
        the current custodian of the closed church allowed 4 hours to them
        to conduct intercessionary prayers at these father's tombs why they
        did not enter the holy tomb's place and conducted dhoopa prarthana?.
        Instead they prayed at the tomb of their bishop, Mar Theophelos
        only. The niyukthan was heard saying (as reported by news papers)
        that they did not enter at the tombs of their " highly revered
        common fathers " or the tomb of their " to be Saint" Valiyathirumeni
        becuase of standing legal issues!!!!.

        This reveals their hypocracy. They conduct the feast of these
        fathers to show the world and to cheat the faithful and just impress
        them but they do not respect them or pray for / through them. HAD
        THEY HAVE ANY RESPECT TO ST. VALIYA THIRUMENI, LATE .DR. THEOPHILOS
        WOULD NOT HAVE ALLOWED HIS PET DOG INTO THE SAINT'S SACRED ROOM.

        Our lawyers should highlight this point with the support of news
        clippings that they do not respect these fathers nor pray at their
        tombs but only want to hold the property. The blind followers of IOC
        if any from the Angamaly diocese or any one who respect Valiya
        thirumeni should recognise the real motive of their leadership and
        exit from the evil group.

        2) Niyukthan said in a press conference that 'Avakasham illathavar
        prarthana nadathi'. What do he mean? Any one who wants to pray
        should take a consent from Devalokam?.

        3) Though the St.Mary's church remains closed I have seen IOC
        priests praying at Dr. Theophilos' tomb on any day. They come to the
        Seminary and enter the church premises freely. This means that only
        the Jacobites are prohibited to pray at their fathers' tomb? Why the
        Govt. is not protecting the status quo impartially?.

        Again I feel that the law enforcing authorities and the judiciary to
        understand that the status quo should be given for the group /
        procedure and not to any person. If a person defects from the oath
        then how the status quo is maintained if when is allowed to continue
        in the same post?.

        If our lawyers are sincere to the church and the judiciary is not
        blind we can win the case.

        In his love

        Johnson Baroda
        #2335
      • Cijoy Varghese
        Dear sir Wwe have to constitute a legal commitee on all malankara basis to look into  ownership documents of all churches & properties of our church to make
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 28, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear sir

          Wwe have to constitute a legal commitee on all malankara basis to look into  ownership documents of all churches & properties of our church to make them legally correct.

          In such a way that no outside church or persons is able to make a claim on our property.

          Earlier when metropolitians deserted we lost property this should not happen again

          Cijoy Varghese
          Allapra church
          Kandanad
        • Bibu Philip Matthew
          Dear All The news that High court has dismissed the case by IOC prohibiting Jacobites the real owner from entering seminary is most welcome. Court has given
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 28, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear All

            The news that High court has dismissed the case by IOC prohibiting Jacobites the real owner from entering seminary is most welcome. Court has given interim justice.

            As I told you earlier politicians and media has limit and they will stand neutral in public for votes and business, they cannot provide a solution ,only court can give us justice. I understand Jacobite Syrian church never want to drag it to court as a principle, that we Jacobites will not approach the court first, but IOC has taken it to court and have utterly failed in the case. This has given us a temporary legal solution and helped us.

            Trikkunath seminary belongs to Jacobite Syrian church and we have all legal documents to prove it ,silence is not an option when things are ill done,we should not be hesitant in approaching court for a noble cause, H.B.Catholicos Thomas-I should not feel bad in  approaching court to execute will of former Jacobite bishops if necessary to prove ownership legally. I repeat fighting for a noble cause is not a sin, for false prophets who violate Shalmootho ,will resist by all means. Similarly Jacobite church should get the control of Mor Athanasious High school in Nedumbassery as its real owner according to the registered will of Jacobite bishop Mor Gregorios Vayaliparambil is Jacobite Syrian Church .

            Vayaliparambil Itty Mathu was the treasurer in charge of Trikkunath seminary construction in 1903 and Mor Gregorios Vayaliparambil inaugurated the seminary in 1957 with new building,we have long association with Jacobite church and seminary since its construction. Vayaliparambil Matthew Matthew, a government servant was the architect who supervised the construction of some new buildings in seminary and he was an adviser to St.Athanasious Paulose. We have built it for Jacobites Syrian Church using the money of Jacobites loyal to Holy throne of Antioch only and not for false bishops and trespassers.

            But if Jacobite church as the real owners should get permanent ownership, we have to make it a legal issue, by applying correct legal procedure and not a democratic issue which will lead to a law and order issue ultimately, giving upper hand to political leaders, who will always take a neutral stand as a popular way. Media also wants it to be a political issue,so that they can have debates which will be a good time pass for channel.

            Only a court can approve our ownership as the final authority and the only solution is to prove our ownership in a court, otherwise this issue will remain for ever though we will have right to enter church during annual feast,once a year. Our Church leaders should deal this, the legal way for a permanent real solution. Catholicos HB.Thomas-I and metropolitan of Angamaly has to realise that the only solution is by court and our reluctance in moving to court as a principle (this principle is good but by applying this principle we are in a way not claiming the ownership) will only create more and more law and order issue bringing disgrace to Christianity and Jacobite church. There will be pressure on us not to follow the legal way. If our intention is permanent ownership we must follow the legal way immediately.

            We are now following a policy of appeasement in a way by not going for the correct permanent solution. For the Jacobite masses entering the seminary once a year may be sufficient, but for real Jacobite they need a permanent solution. Otherwise Every January we have to claim ownersip, making it a law and order problem for entry.This is my personal opinion.

            Let The Truth Prevail.
            Bibu Philip Matthew
            Vayaliparambil Pynadath
            0074
          • Thomas Varghese
            Dear Johnson You may aware that there was an agreement between orthodox and Jacobites regarding the praying at the tombs on 2005. The agreement contains( I
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 28, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Johnson

              You may aware that there was an agreement between orthodox and
              Jacobites regarding the praying at the tombs on 2005.

              The agreement contains( I think, As per jacobite request) that no
              orthodox priest should offer "Dhoopam" at these three bishops tombs.

              Since orthodox church always was telling JSC to abide by these
              agreement, It will be very difficult to present the case further if
              they themselves contradicts this agreement.

              This is the simple reason.

              Thanking you

              Thomas
              #2316

              --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Johnson wrote:
              >
              > >
              > 1) All the time IOC say that both the Seminary and the Church belong
              > to them. To support this claim they say and declare that the fathers
              > who are entombed there are their fathers or common fathers. They
              > celebrate the feast of these fathers !!!. Then when the Govt.who are
              > the current custodian of the closed church allowed 4 hours to them
              > to conduct intercessionary prayers at these father's tombs why they
              > did not enter the holy tomb's place and conducted dhoopa prarthana?.
              > Instead they prayed at the tomb of their bishop, Mar Theophelos
              only"
            • Mathew
              Mr.Johnson, You may not aware that there was an agreement between the Orthodox brothers and us regarding the seminary issue which is to keep the status
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 29, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Mr.Johnson,

                You may not aware that there was an agreement between the
                Orthodox brothers and us regarding the seminary issue which is to
                keep the status quo(existing state)is only a temperory agreement. The
                status quo has to be kept untill the court has finalized the issue
                regarding the ownership of the seminary and the church.But there is a
                question still existing. Was this agreement approved by any legal
                system in India after that? Because there was a court order during
                the close out of the church that the status quo has to be kept. That
                was in 1977(I believe)The status quo in 1977 means the manager is our
                beloved Mannaraprayil Achen and the Angamaly Metropolitan is
                Philipose Mar theophilose Thirumeny. Was this status quo kept by our
                beloved brothers in Orthodox Church and its respectful leaders? But
                after 1977 Status Quo has been repeatedly violated.

                1) Orthodox brothers restructure the seminary building and start a chapel inside the seminary

                2) Beloved Mannaraprayil Achen has been removed and beloved Bobby Varghese Achen replaced him

                3) Theophilose thirumeny entered in to eternal life and beloved Paulose Mor Pakomiose replaced him

                4) All the bishops and the regular priests of the orthodox church
                entering in to the seminary SINCE 1977 and denying our bishops and
                priests to enter in to the seminary

                5) Beloved Orthodox leaders kept forty people inside the seminary and named as 'THEOLOGY STUDENTS'.

                Who is violating the status quo? If there is a decision to keep the
                status quo, it has to be the state of 1977 that Mannaraprayil achen
                as the manager of the church and immediate discontinuation of the
                chapel functioning inside the seminary untill the court has to
                finalize the issue. There is no other bishops or priests can enter in
                to the church or seminary from both factions untill the problem is
                resolved through the legal system. Untill then let Mannaraprayil Achen (Media Maniach) take the control.

                I request the attorney who is representing our church in the court
                has to read all these postings also. Thank you,

                Mathew
                Oklahoma
                ========================
                From the desk of the Moderator:

                Please sign your messages with member ID. If not having a member ID, please send your details including contact number to moderators
                (SOCM-FORUM-owner@yahoogroups.com)and obtain a member ID BEFORE POSTING ANY MORE MESSAGES in SOCM. Thank you for your cooperation.
              • Johnson
                Dear Mr. Thomas V Shlomo I am not aware of any such agreement which is binding to the faithful. But I have a question. If your leadership is honouring a so
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 30, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Mr. Thomas V

                  Shlomo

                  I am not aware of any such agreement which is binding to the
                  faithful. But I have a question. If your leadership is honouring a
                  so called agreement of 2005 why can't you honour the probated wills
                  of founders and former custodians of the said Church and Seminary
                  which are legally standing?.

                  The real and true fact is that your leadership do not have any
                  respect to these saintly fathers but only want to hold the property
                  by any means. You may not understand the tears of true followers of
                  them because you always believe in money and might. Otherwise why
                  Dr. Theophilos was buried there against his wishes?. Didn't you read
                  the letter written by your own Mannaraprayil Cori?. So please don't
                  try to be smart. Smartness in this world may not stand correct on
                  the day of last judgement if you believe in His Words.
                  Try to think rationally and in the light of Holy Scripture.

                  In his love

                  Johnson
                  #2335

                  --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Varghese wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Johnson
                  >
                  > You may aware that there was an agreement between orthodox and
                  > Jacobites regarding the praying at the tombs on 2005.
                  >
                • Sbu Alias
                  Brother, Johnson the said agreement itself is a clear indication of the true nature of IOC. Had they considered the entombed fathers as theirs, they would not
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 1, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Brother, Johnson the said agreement itself is a clear indication of the true nature of IOC. Had they considered the entombed fathers as theirs, they would not have conceeded to such an aggreement. They need their brothers / neighbours property. For that they will come to any agreement as a Mammon worshipper is not afraid of God.

                    Sbu Alias
                    3323
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.