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Re. Apostolic Church (Reply to Fr, K.K. John & Mr. Thomas P) Part 2

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  • Paul Philipose
    Dear Achan, Let me ask you this. Are you following your father s faith? I always wonder what you do as a priest when you read the 5th Thubden (For the departed
    Message 1 of 100 , Nov 5, 2002
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      Dear Achan,
      Let me ask you this. Are you following your father's faith? I
      always wonder what you do as a priest when you read the 5th Thubden
      (For the departed spiritual fathers and doctors of the church). Do
      you know where those souls will be? They will rejoice God in my
      church with us. You criticize all those fathers for 6 and half days
      (from Sunday afternoon onwards) and then pray for them and seek their
      intersession on Sunday. You have 365 (and more) cases against the
      church, which produced these fathers. And you talk endless abuse on
      this church and the sons of these church fathers who died for our
      Lord Jesus Christ and His church... Tell me, will God forgive you?

      You said faith is enough. Is it? I can give early church history
      and name of all bishops from Apostle to this day and all Holy Synods
      and there decisions. We have a church rule book called canon, passed
      on to us by our fathers. Show me:
      1) That Apostle Thomas established a See some where from early
      literature
      2) show me who succeeded Apostle Thomas?
      2) Show all bishops till this date
      3) Were any local synods convened? What were the decisions? Was
      See of Thomas established?
      4) Where was the See established? Kottayam? Kochi? Madras? Kanoor?
      5) Any early church history in Malankara, except bishops coming
      from Antioch
      6) Any argument about See of Antioch before 1900 AD, or even from
      1950 AD?
      7) Your catholicos told justice 'MaliMadu', that you are willing
      to remove that claim 'See of Thomas' from letter heads in 2002. So
      your 'See of Thomas' is something, which could be dropped and
      recreated at your will?

      I am surprised so many Christian radios preach the protestant version
      of the Gospel. Many of them have such respect for Luther as
      their 'Saint'. Brief statements that Luther made are

      1) When he was a bishop under Pope: "Most Holy Father (Pope Leo X), I
      cast myself at thy feet with all I have and am ....."
      2) When he wanted to marry and do other lustful acts:
      "It was Luther's idea, how ever that so long as one had faith,
      conduct was not of great importance. This he wrote to Melancthon: "Be
      a sinner, and sin boldly, but believe more boldly still. Sin will not
      drag us away from Him, even should we commit fornication or murder
      thousands and thousands of times a day (Letter of August, 1521).
      So annoying to him were the Ten Commandments, that he wrote of
      them "We must put the whole Decalogue entirely our of our sight and
      out of our hearts. If Moses scares you with his stupid Ten
      Commandments, say to him at once "Take yourself off to your Jews! To
      the gallows with Moses" (Rebuilding a lost faith -page 126).

      3) He wanted to prove that he was justified for all his actions. So
      he went ahead and added on the word "alone" to Rom 3:28 "Man is
      justified by faith [alone]". When questioned he wrote, "It shall
      remain in 'my' New Testament and it all the Popish donkeys were to
      get mad and beside themselves, they will not get it out."

      4) Once he became angry he called all people in Germany to "burn down
      Jewish schools and synagogues" destroy catholic churches and kill
      them.
      5) He declared "Who ever teaches otherwise than I teach, condemns
      God and must remain a child of Hell" (it means Yes I am the Lord")
      (page 131)

      6) Luther had no mercy on the poor in Peasant's war and exhorted the
      nobles to kill them and 100,000 were killed. (page 129)

      7) Luther tried to influence the people by forcing the authorities
      to punish those who differ from his teachings in the universities. In
      1556 the Pfalsgraf, Otto Heinrich declared that the doctrine of
      Luther, the exclusive religion of the land.

      And we hear day and night from TV and radio, protestant Gospel
      created by Luther. But I could not help to find seminaries to
      Luther's argument and you and your churches. For the Protestants,
      Luther is a 'saint'

      1) First your catholicos took vows in the name of God "I will obey
      Peter and all Patriarchs".

      2) Then Catholicos said "You are foreigner and Arab". Now you say
      to me "I only need faith". Your catholicos in Kerala High Court: "I
      don't know 10 commandments" (to me it reads as, I don't care").

      3) Catholicos wanted to justify his arguments. So he started
      Modifying Word of our Lord. "Peter up on this rock I will establish
      MY CHURCH" and ..."I will give you the Keys of Heaven." This is
      modified to suit your case.
      I have a question, how did your Catholicos know that this is
      what Jesus meant? (What about St. Chrysostom? What about St.
      Ignatius? What about Eusebious? Your catholicos could say "Hell with
      them I am infallable")

      4) So some innocent faithful people want to listen to church canon.
      They believe in orthodox faith and are under orthodox bishop. But
      your catholicos is angry and shouted "Close down their Churches. Beat
      them
      Hit them. Seize their belongings. They are praying to the LORD".

      6) He declared, "Whoever that refuses to obey me should be punished
      by any means." "I will go to the court; Destroy them in any way I can"

      7) Catholicos had no mercy on the poor faithful of the church.
      Catholicos went to the court to destroy the faithful though the
      Supreme court said "every church is independent". Your catholicos
      declared "NO, it belongs to the catholicos." Luther sided with
      nobles. Most of the rich and 'nobles' are in your side. With help of
      these nobles your faction tried to kill our prayers. I know you are
      not killing us, because of the laws. Otherwise we would have been
      dead now. You cancelled the Visa of Patrachal representative and sent
      him back. Did he not believe in the orthodox faith? Didn't he pray to
      the LORD? Didn't he obey his head? He did. But you want to destroy
      every thing associated with the LORD's church. (Including its
      churches, its people, its bishops.) Its bishops are consecrated by
      the church head, legally. Whether Apostle Thomas established a See
      here or not, still they are legal bishops. But your faction does not
      care.

      8) Like Luther, your catholicos tried to influence the 38 MLA's and
      persuaded them to act against some poor faithful and ban them from
      praying to our LORD.

      contd... Part 3

      Paul Philipose
    • Dipu George
      Shlomo, Witnessing various falsehoods written in both the forums by misguided people I felt it logical enough to reproduce the true version of the Church
      Message 100 of 100 , Nov 23, 2002
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        Shlomo,

        Witnessing various falsehoods written in both the forums by misguided
        people I felt it logical enough to reproduce the true version of the
        Church History written by none other than the most Rev Malankara
        Malpan Dr Kanyamparambil Achen.

        I humbly implore this forum to kindly reproduce the article as it is,
        so that the faithful could have a clear view about the happenings in
        this church for the past 100 years. This article starts from page 173
        of the book. However only select but important portions (relevant in
        this context) have been written along with my very small observations
        in the spare time I could afford because of my busy schedule.
        I do not know if this book is available anymore but I sincerely
        exhort every faithful to try to get at least a copy of it.

        Aloho Ahmuch ………….

        Dipu George

        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        -------------------
        THE SYRIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH IN INDIA AND ITS APOSTOLIC FAITH

        PART 14

        The Supreme Court judgment of 1958

        In spite of unselfish services rendered by Dr P T Thomas and Adv K P
        Abraham and P P John the Catholicos could win the suit on " certain
        legal points". In spite of this adverse decision the prelates and
        the faithful worked with determination for the perpetuation of their
        Holy Faith.

        But "peace at any cost " became the slogan of some influential
        quarters. The following pages will show whether it was for the better
        or for the bitter.

        The Union of 1958

        In His memorable Patriarchal Bull of 9th December 1958 His Holiness
        after elaborating the advantages of union and peace ends the Kalpana
        with the words that "We are pleased to accept Mar Baselios
        Geevarghese as Catholicos for the sake of peace in the Malankara
        Church".

        This magnanimous gesture from the Holy Father was lauded by the whole
        Christendom but the partisans of the Catholicos found it as a
        submission of the Patriarch in the wake of the adverse judgment of
        the Supreme Court. This is totally incorrect. It has already been
        cited earlier that in His first Patriarchal Kalpana to the Malankara
        Church dated 11th November, the Holy Father had clearly expressed His
        prime desire for peace and that too it was at a time when the High
        Court of Kerala had "DECIDED IN FAVOUR OF THE PATRIARCH'S PARTY".
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