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Proposal for truce. (MSOC Vs JOC).

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  • Mammen H
    Dear Readers, Will a proposal in this forum make any positive move? But keen to know the opinions of others. The primary subject of the conflict is the
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 2, 2008
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      Dear Readers,

      Will a proposal in this forum make any positive move? But keen to
      know the opinions of others. The primary subject of the conflict is
      the "Throne". Let us adore the "Thrones", St. Peter's and St.
      Thomas'. For IOC, HH Patriarch is the spiritual leader. The "HH
      Catholicos" and the "HB Catholicos" quandary can be solved through
      the following steps.

      1. Let HH Patriarch be always our spiritual leader.
      2. Let both the HH and the HB retire and take rest.
      3. Let the new HH be the senior Metropolitan of the present
      Jacobite group.
      4. Let present Assistant Catholicos HB Milithios continue.
      5. Select another Metropolitan from Jacobite group to be in line
      for Assistant Catholicos.
      6. Dissolve both the associations and elect a new one.
      7. Shuffle the Diocese Bishops and Vicars.

      If this happens, with in a few years our church will be long ahead
      than other churches in kerala.

      Will evils in both the group agree this?

      Regards

      Mammen H
      Kuwait
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    • Gleeson Baby
      Dear Mammen, ... Thomas . For IOC, HH Patriarch is the spiritual leader. The HH Catholicos and the HB Catholicos quandary can be solved through the
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 5, 2008
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        Dear Mammen,

        >>>>> Will a proposal in this forum make any positive move? But keen to know the opinions of others. The primary subject of the conflict is the "Throne". Let us adore the "Thrones", St. Peter's and St.
        Thomas'. For IOC, HH Patriarch is the spiritual leader. The "HH
        Catholicos" and the "HB Catholicos" quandary can be solved through
        the following steps.

        1. Let HH Patriarch be always our spiritual leader.
        2. Let both the HH and the HB retire and take rest.
        3. Let the new HH be the senior Metropolitan of the present
        Jacobite group.
        4. Let present Assistant Catholicos HB Milithios continue.
        5. Select another Metropolitan from Jacobite group to be in line
        for Assistant Catholicos.
        6. Dissolve both the associations and elect a new one.
        7. Shuffle the Diocese Bishops and Vicars.<<<<<<<<<<

        Let me give my opinion of your proposal.

        1. Its not the "Throne" the only issue or the most important issue. The fact is MOSC made apparant deviation from the centuries old faith, practises and customs of the mother church. As far as the Throne is concerned, historically its an accepted fact that the oldest or the first church is the See of Antioch established by St Peter. Its a fact even accepted by the catholic church, a church which never accepts anything which devalues Rome. Now if somebody wants to create a new throne just to compete with the See of Antioch, that too as late as 1974, its their problem. And if that Throne doesnt get accepted even by the christian community in malankara and needs the "honorific" title confered by the supreme court to survive, its for the creators to answer.

        2. HH the Patriarch is the supreme spiritual head of the jacobite syrian church. There is no argument on that. But as far as MOSC is concerned can you be authoritive about their stand. Of course the 95 SC judgement which is applicable to MOSC declares the Holy Patriarch as the Spiritual head. Even the 34 constitution also in a smocky way declares HH as the spiritual head. Ad Nariman when arguing in SC was asked by the judges what will be the status of malankara church without the Patriarch. He replied that it will be like the body without head...

        Now just go through the public atturances of the leaders of Mosc.. They talk as if HH is the head of some foreign church who have no business in malankara..This dual stand taken by MOSC inside and outside the court will never catalyse a serious discussion on peace talks..

        3.Your idea of giving retirement or rest to HH, HB etc etc arises out of your wrong perception that the church case is not issue based but the handiwork of some people.Any proposal which sidelines the actual issues to be discussed or sorted out will only fall through.It will only be a waste of time for the concerned. The issues which are under contention should be identified and should be discussed to find a solution, if at all its there..

        4. In my opinion there are two issues which have to be sorted out.
        a) The position of the Holy See in the Malankara Church.
        b) the temperol independence of the parish churches....

        I have written above on the dual stand by MOSC regarding the Holy See. Let them retreat from the stand taken by Ougen Catholicos in 74 and go back to the the letter and spirit of the Shalmoosa of the same Ougen Catholicos in 64..Let the MOSC publically accept that HH the Patriarch is the supreme spiritual head of the malankara church. They should not do it half heartedly. They shouldnt do it just because SC told them so.. they shouldnt do it just because its written in the 34 constitution or because they are reciting in the first thubdhen... They should do it because its a matter of faith to them which have been accepted by the community for centuries..

        Regarding the temperol independence of the parish churches, you may be knowing the stand of JSC. It dosnt accept any authority of the malankara metran or bishops or priests on the temperol affairs of the parish churches.The custodian of the temperol affais of the individual parish churches is vested on the parish pothuyogam and through it the parish managing commitee. Any talk of parish churches belonging to malankara metran or bishops( as in catholic churches) will never find acceptance in any JSC churches..

        I feel these two are the most important issues to be discussed.

        And i can guarantee you that MOSC will never take a clear stand on the above.. Its assured, and there you can find why the century old dispute can be settled only by a peacefull parting of ways...

        rgds

        Gleeson Baby
        St George Jacobite Syrian Church
        Arakunnam
        0891
      • Sajy Thannikkottu
        Dear Mammen H Basic need of the hour is people recognizing right & wrong. Once we are able to identify these rights & wrongs, we would be able to condemn
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 5, 2008
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          Dear Mammen H

          Basic need of the hour is people recognizing right & wrong. Once we
          are able to identify these rights & wrongs, we would be able to
          condemn violence. Until unless people will not condemn violence we
          will not have any change in our life.

          It is not because there is no solution for our problem, but it is
          because we don't want a solution. Your suggestion can be a good move
          if it can generate response. I won't say this is the only solution;
          there can be other solutions also. But I think you will get hardly any
          response, as it is not easy to swim against wave. People will find
          swimming very easy & convenient with wave. Our people also prefer this
          & so we can't blame them.

          None of our Metropolitans will take any initiative to solve this
          century old violence. They are happily watching foolish people like
          you and me running around them. There are enough people to clap for
          them in public meetings. Malankara Varghese might have died in the
          name of church conflict. And even there is a Binu who was killed for
          the same reason. There can be a Fr. Mathew Jacob Puthusseri who was
          attacked, or there can be so many other clergies & laymen from both
          factions. Who cares? Our Metropolitans are satisfied in their
          minister like reception in various functions, as they have ensured a
          chair with state & union Ministers.

          Is there any loss for these Metropolitans? They might have forgotten
          all of these names. Only those who were dependent of these people have
          a loss. I know these selfish leaders are not going to bring any bread
          for me like what Jesus Christ did. Instead I, myself, have to work
          hard for earning my daily bread. Still I respond to these messages
          hoping there will be a day where our people will recognize rights and
          wrongs.

          Today when I was reading Mathew Chapter 5 I was thinking, have they
          spend at least a day on meditating these, we would have got a solution
          for a problem of 100 years. I really mean it; we need ONLY ONE DAY FOR
          A PROBLEM OF 100 YEARS! Will they be ready?


          Regards

          Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu
          # 2912
        • George Kurian
          Dear Saji, I and my New World Publication (www.newworldstories.com) wholeheartedly support the idea for peace. If Dr.Martin Luther King Jr. and the President
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 6, 2008
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            Dear Saji,

            I and my New World Publication (www.newworldstories.com) wholeheartedly support the idea for peace. If Dr.Martin Luther King Jr. and the President Elect Mr.Barack Obama could make a change of history, why not we the people from God's own Country connot make a small truce !!!

            Unless we move forward boldly and try for peace, it will never happen. Please read my posting "The Abandoned Treasure" published in by publication, we will know what we are losing !!

            Saji and dear friends let us all try and I am sure we will succeed.

            George Kurian
            Chief Editor
            New World
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