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  • Eldo EV
    Dear moderators, Now a day’s IOC says lot about the unity .What type of unity they want? Why both were spilt?? Has the situation of 1975 changed?? When we
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 26 9:19 PM
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      Dear moderators,

      Now a day�s IOC says lot about the unity .What type of unity they want? Why both were spilt?? Has the situation of 1975 changed?? When we split, there were only 2 bishops with us. The spit was regarding the faith.

      IOC says their apostolic thrown is of St Thomas and SOC believe St. Peter. Has any change today in this? And the split was done by the layman, not the bishops. All the SOC bishops today are on that time was priests or layman. All the SOC bishops were selected by the people of SOC. So the split is due to the difference in faith. What action is taken by the IOC in their stand for bringing back the SOC peoples other than court cases? Has these IOCs thinking by bring some SOC bishop and unity can be achieved?? What is the result of Trissur and Muvatupuzha unity? Today it is the big headache for both factions. These bishops throw out the great Constitution and supremacy of IOC Catholicos by ordaining a foreign bishop. So in the present situation any unity of both will like a mixture of water and oil.If IOC says they are belongs to St. Thomas where are the churches built by St. Thomas?? Let them first acquire all the seven churches because the Catholicos (the fifth patriarch as per the IOC) is sitting in the thrown of St. Thomas and is the custodian of all the churches in India.

      Remove the article 1 of their Constitution where the supreme head is the Patriarch of Antioch. Change their clergy�s dress code and make according to Indian tradition stop using all foreign languages used in their liturgy and use Sanskrit or Chethamizhu.Start using new prayers and songs, hymn in place of foreign ones. Find out the liturgy used by St. Thomas and use it. Find out the Pakalomattom family and make someone the Arkadiyakon as it was the tradition. Stop use all foreign name for their bishops and find out Indian names. Restart the title Marthoma instead of using these catholicos, Baselious etc, as it all foreign. Other than thalikettu in holy Matrimony, what Indian tradition these IOC can claims??

      If Saint Gregorious Abtul Jallel bava not came to india, today what was the fate of these great Indian church?? They will be under Archbishop of Varapolly or Ernakulam. When so many Indian bishops are available in other churches why these great church peoples went to foreign to become bishops (as they claims -asked assistance when the church was in crisis from other churches). Today I read a message in IOC forum that a large gathering was in front of Ernakulum colectorate where so many bishop were there. The total number was 200. what a fate?? Now can you identify your strength?? Now understand why political parties supporting SOC.

      Eldo EV
      # 4120
    • Jacob Varghese
      Dear brother Eldo and all, The so called unity is never possible. Can a true Syrian Christian can accept the IOC and their priests and bishops? I think that
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 28 5:24 AM
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        Dear brother Eldo and all,

        The so called "unity " is never possible. Can a true Syrian Christian can accept the IOC and their priests and bishops? I think that even if anyone bring that "unity " many church will leave their present dioceses and will become directly under Patriarch as Simahasana church.

        Even when the move to unity was warm just after the Supreme court verdict confirming the supremacy of Antioch Patriarch , the Kanjikuzhy Catholicose was not responding to that. I was fortunate to present in an informal meeting with our Perumpally thirumeni, during which he demanded the comment from the then IOC Catholicose regarding the Supreme court verdict. If he accept the court verdict he has to accept the Patriarch as their supreme spiritual head and the peace process is easy. If he do not accept the verdict then he has to face actions for contempt of court. But they were quiet about the verdict. Even now the laymen wish to divide the disputed church properties and separate peacefully, but IOC Catholicose not agreeing to that.

        In the recent past many prominent personalities including Bishops from other Christian communities, Political and other religious leaders were expressed their willingness to mediate the peace process, but the IOC refused all. They want the settlement only through the court  but never willing to obey it if it is not favorable to them.

        Why we should waste our time and energy to discuss unity, which is not a possible among the two faction? Instead  if we can bring some out of court settlement peace formulae which is acceptable to both faction, is better .

        Jacob Varghese
        Id # 4112
      • Manoj C George
        Dear Bro Eldo, Please do not worry too much about whatever the IOC s say or write. They just cant bear the huge reception given to HH and HB by the church and
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 28 8:07 PM
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          Dear Bro Eldo,

          Please do not worry too much about whatever the IOC's say or write.
          They just cant bear the huge reception given to HH and HB by the
          church and the faithful. They are spellbound by the huge success of
          the Holy apostolic visit. They know that if they organise something
          like this the maximum they can get is 5000 people and half of them
          will be taken on rent. Just recall the festivities organised to
          canonise their saint vattasseril. Their own journals reported the low
          turnout of people. Just compare this with the sea of faithful
          gathered at Marine drive, Mulanthurthy, Panambady and kandanad. How
          can they bear this ? If you go through the messages in their forums
          you can see the height of their desperation.

          Instead of worrying about what they write let us understand their
          feeling of insecurity. Once I remember reading in a magazine that for
          Pakistan the policy of hatred towards India is a matter of survival.
          They want to keep this hatred alive so as to keep public attention
          away from their internal problems and power struggles within. The
          same applies to IOC also. For them spreading hatred and lies about
          the SOC and the SOC hierarchy is a matter of survival. Let them be
          happy with what they are doing. Let us just ignore them.

          If you go through their forums their main arguments are ...

          1. The visit of HH is creating law and order issues. HH is entering
          churches which fall under the 1934 constitution.

          But they fail to get even a stay against the visit of HH to these
          churches. They conveniently forget that leave alone entering these
          churches their leaders cannot even think of coming near these
          churches which are to be governed by the 1934 bible. They overlook
          the fact that the police were there not to lathi charge the faithful
          or provide protection for forced entry. They were there to control
          the multitudes of faithful who thronged the place to have a glimpse
          of their spiritual father and seek his blessings. Once IOC 's
          understand that HH is not here to conquer churches like they tend to
          do but to conquer the hearts of the faithful all this hue and cry
          about law and order problems will die out.

          2. HB Thomas I is the stumbling block for the unity of the church.

          HB Thomas I has saved this church from falling into the trap of ayyos
          again like 1964. The church has become a resurgent force under his
          leadership. From a stage in 1995/6 where we thought we will lose
          everything like we did in the 1970's we are today a well organised
          church with a constituion, able leadership, new dioceses,etc.,. And
          all this happened under the visionary leadership of HB. So of course
          HB is the stumbling block for the unity as ayyos envision unity. For
          ayyos unity means complete submission to them. When this did not
          happen and HB was the person under whom the SOC reorganised how can
          they bear this ? Please understand their plight.

          3. HB tend to follow dharna, kuthiyiruppu satyagraham, upavasa
          satyagraham etc.,. to make his claim.

          The funny part is that the very people who criticize him for this are
          following the same methods of protest. But unfortunately since it is
          just a show off and the real intention is something else always their
          dramas have had a bad climax.

          4. Another of our friend who blames everything and anything that
          happens around world on the Patriarchs of antioch is worried that Mor
          Clemis Augen Kaplan is being taken around malankara and this is wrong
          because HE was involved in a scam.

          Whatever the scam was, his explanation has already been accepted by
          HH and the matter is a closed one. But this guy very conveniently
          forget that their "parishudda" catholica Mathews II lost in crores
          when one of the financial institutions went under. Now since he is
          bothered only about what is happening in SOC he might not have
          noticed this. This is the problem with IOC ians. They read only SOC
          journals like Vishwasasamrakshakan but never bother to read IOC
          journals. They are always there to point out even spelling mistakes
          on VS but are never bothered when vedi magazines go full steam
          spitting hatred. They only listen to people like HG Mor gregorios
          speaking on stages but conveniently ignore hysterics of mannuthies.
          They are quick to criticise HG for having made some political
          comments but conveniently forget our dear mannuthy's famous joke of '
          the resignation of 37 MLA's'. These are the people who conveniently
          ignore the huge block in their eyes but look for dust in others eyes.
          Let us stop arguing with them. There is no point in trying to wake up
          people who are acting to be asleep.

          There are a lot of issues like this doing rounds in their forums.
          Then there are a set of people who are running around different
          forums spreading all sorts of nonsense. Recently there was a guy
          selling flowers on their forum. In SOCM he talks always about peace
          and unity. It is people like these that we have to be careful of.

          Dear brother, let them do whatever they want to. Let them shout peace
          or unity. We as a church have made our decision to co-exist. Let us
          stop worrying about them and concentrate on making our church
          stronger. The apostolic visit has re-inforced the confidence that we
          were experiencing for the last six years under HB Thomas I. The
          apostolic visit has come as a huge moral booster. Let us thank God
          almighty for having given us such a loving and visionary Patriarch
          and such an able and caring catholicose. Let us consider ourselves
          lucky for having lived in this golden era in the history of malankara
          church under such great spiritual fathers.

          Long live HH the patriarch and Long live HB the catholicose.

          ID # 1309
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