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Re: Icons in the Syrian Orthodox tradition

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  • Shinu Jesus Abraham
    Greetings to All Thanks to Mr. Apu Jose for bringing up the subject. The problem is defenitely as Rev.Fr. Mani Rajan mentioned - WHO WILL BELL THE CAT Let me
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 1, 2008
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      Greetings to All

      Thanks to Mr. Apu Jose for bringing up the subject. The problem is
      defenitely as Rev.Fr. Mani Rajan mentioned - "WHO WILL BELL THE CAT"

      Let me just add to it a few more points to the list of Mr. Apu from
      the most important place of church - the holy Thronos

      1. Are we allowed to have silver or golden cross in the centre of
      Thronos? Isint it a plain wooden cross the right SOC tradition?

      2. Isint there an order for the number of candles on the holy
      Thronos? Looking around I am seeing from 2 candles to as many as 15
      candles in some churches. Is this right?

      There are much more to list out which needs the attention of the
      concerned, if not will only help to multiply in the future.

      Requesting prayers

      Shinu Jesus Abraham
      Member id # 2908

      --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Rev. (Dr.) Fr. Mani Rajan wrote:
      >
      > Dear moderators,
      >

      >
      > It is sad that Syrian Orthodox Church Book stalls have started
      > selling items which were forbidden by our Church Fathers. I had
      to
      > tell this to some of our "leaders" to become more unpopular!
      >
    • Apu Jose
      Dear readers, I would like to thank Rev Fr Mani Rajan, Mr John Thomas, Mr Eldhose and Mr Shinu for responding to my posting. I request all of you who read this
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 2, 2008
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        Dear readers,

        I would like to thank Rev Fr Mani Rajan, Mr John Thomas, Mr Eldhose and Mr Shinu for responding to my posting.

        I request all of you who read this , to spread this teaching among the members of our Church. I guess at least in their respective parishes they will be able to bring about some difference .

        With prayers
        Apu Jose
        Ernakulam , Kerala
      • Dr.
        Dear moderators, 1. Are we allowed to have silver or golden cross in the centre of Thronos? Isint it a plain wooden cross the right SOC tradition? Wooden cross
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 2, 2008
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          Dear moderators,

          1. Are we allowed to have silver or golden cross in the centre of
          Thronos? Isint it a plain wooden cross the right SOC tradition?

          Wooden cross (empty budded cross or Easter cross) is our tradition.
          There can be additional ornamental golden or silver cross but a
          wooden cross is a must for it is symboic of the cross on which Christ
          was crucified.

          2. Isint there an order for the number of candles on the holy
          Thronos? Looking around I am seeing from 2 candles to as many as 15
          candles in some churches. Is this right?

          There is no documentary evidence about the number of candles to be
          placed on the altar (Anson, 1948). Moreover, it was not our practice
          until 10th or 11th century. However, Exodus 40:4; John 8:12; Psalm
          27:1; Matthew 25:1-13 are some of the Biblical references that allude
          to the use of candles (oil lamps) in the Church. The number of
          candles is supposed to be 12 symbolising the 12 Apostles. Since the
          Cross symbolises Christ, 13 candles (one at the centre) are not
          necessary. However, the practice varies with local traditions.
          Please note that Mor Dionysius Bar Saleebi (d. 1171) or Mose Bar
          Kipho (d. 903) did not mention about the practice in their
          commentaries.

          References
          Anson, P. F. (1948). Churches - Their plan and furnishing.
          Milwaukee: The Bruce Publishing Company.
          Mose Bar Kipho (1988). Church fathers - II (G.. Chediath, Trans.).
          Kottayam: OIRS.
          Dionysius Bar Saleebi (1990). Exposition of Liturgy (G. Chediath,
          Trans.). Kottayam: OIRS.

          Fr. Mani Rajan

          --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Shinu Jesus Abraham wrote:
          >
          > Greetings to All
          >
          > Thanks to Mr. Apu Jose for bringing up the subject. The problem is
          > defenitely as Rev.Fr. Mani Rajan mentioned - "WHO WILL BELL THE CAT"
          >
        • Shinu Jesus Abraham
          Greetings to all Thanks to achen for the detailed reply. But would like to know a bit further clarification. Which cross should be on the centre of the
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 4, 2008
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            Greetings to all

            Thanks to achen for the detailed reply. But would like to know a bit
            further clarification. Which cross should be on the centre of the
            top-most step of holy thronos? Is it right to have 15+ candles on
            the holy thronos when we know that candles symbolises the 12
            Apostles?

            Shinu Jesus Abraham
            Member ID # 2908

            --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Rev. (Dr.) Fr. Mani Rajan wrote:
            >
            > Dear moderators,
            >
            > 1. Are we allowed to have silver or golden cross in the centre of
            > Thronos? Isint it a plain wooden cross the right SOC tradition?
            >
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