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Re: Immaculate Conception of Mary

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  • Rev. Fr. Dr. Mani Rajan
    Dear moderator, This is in response to Item 3 of SOCM Digest No. 2687 The Syriac Orthodox Church does not accept the immaculate conception of St. Mary as
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 7, 2008
      Dear moderator,

      This is in response to Item 3 of SOCM Digest No. 2687

      The Syriac Orthodox Church does not accept the immaculate conception
      of St. Mary as declared by Pope Pius IX in 1854. In contrast, Mary
      was born with the original sin. "For as in Adam all die, even so in
      Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22). "Therefore, just as
      through one man's sin entered the world, and death through sin, and
      thus death spread to all man, because all sinned" (Rom 3:23; Rom.
      5:12). "All" refers to mankind and it will be reasonable to include
      St. Mary in the group. The concluding prayer of the holy Qurbono
      after the final blessing includes St. Mary for whom the sacrifice was
      made.

      There is an important role for St. Mary in the redemption of
      mankind. However, the Catholic and Protestant Churches occupy the
      opposite poles on this matter. The Catholic Church goes to the
      extent qualifying St. Mary as corredemptrix. This term projects St.
      Mary to have an equal status in the redemptive act of Jesus Christ.
      The Protestant Church considers Mary as a lady used for Jesus to take
      flesh from, which was possible for any woman (Genesis 3:15; Gal
      4:4). The Syriac Orthodox Church qualifies St. Mary with different
      names, which are indicators of the theological teachings about her.
      Perpetual virgin, Mother of God, Mother of Church, first among the
      saints and the second Eve are a few of the qualifications. The
      teachings of Patriarch Severios of Antioch and that of Philoxinos of
      Mabbug are relevant in understanding the concepts about St. Mary.

      Fr. Dr. Mani Rajan

      --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Mathew G M wrote:
      >
      > I have a doubt, does Syriac Orthodox Church teach about
      the "Immaculate
      > Conception of Mary" ? I know the Roman Catholic Church teaches about
      > this dogma. What is the official position of the SOC on this.
      >
      > Can any of the learned memebers of Thirumeni clarify this for me.
      >
      > In Christ,
      > Mathew G M
      > # 0929
      >
    • Rin Sam
      Immaculate Conception Of virgin St. Mary. This is a Catholic Church dogma which state that St. Mary did not have any Sin Of Birth and Sin Of Deed. In real
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 7, 2008
        Immaculate Conception Of virgin St. Mary.

        This is a Catholic Church dogma which state that St. Mary did not have
        any Sin Of Birth and Sin Of Deed. In real sense there is no sin of
        Birth (original sin) Immaculate means free from sin.

        The Orthodox Church believe that St. Mary inherited the Sin Of Adam
        (disobedience of Adam).However St. Mary was Blessed with Grace Of
        God. The angel said To Mary You Who are Highly Favoured, The Lord Is
        With You (Luke 1:28)Again in verse 30 " You have found favour with
        God" This mean St. Mary was fully blessed by Grace of Lord God .She
        (St. Mary) was an ordinary person like any other virgins who used to
        work at the temple of Lord. But The Lord Highly favoured her because
        of her meekness/humility.

        Rin Sam
        #4038

        --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Mathew G M wrote:
        >
        > I have a doubt, does Syriac Orthodox Church teach about
        the "Immaculate
      • Issac K Joseph
        I think we misunderstood the word Immaculate . She was and is Immaculate (sinless status). Only difference is the timing. This is the difference between RC &
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 7, 2008
          I think we misunderstood the word "Immaculate". She was and is Immaculate (sinless status). Only difference is the timing. This is
          the difference between RC & OO

          I think we, the OO church, believes that St. Mary become Immaculate (sinless status) from the time she was greeted by the Angles. But RC
          doctrine says she was Immaculate in her mother's womb, which we rejects. So St. Mary was and is Immaculate and no harm to call her "Amalolbhava (sinless status) Mathave". If I am wrong, I request
          the learned members to correct me.

          In Christ
          Issac K Joseph
          # 0917

          --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Mathew G M wrote:
          >
          > I have a doubt, does Syriac Orthodox Church teach about
          the "Immaculate
        • Alex Thomas
          Dear All, This is with reference to Mr. Issac K Joseph s posting on Immaculate Conception of St. Mary especially about what is given in the paragraph I think
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 7, 2008
            Dear All,

            This is with reference to Mr. Issac K Joseph's posting on Immaculate Conception of St. Mary especially about what is given in the paragraph "I think we, the OO church, believes that St. Mary become Immaculate (sinless status) from the time she was greeted by the Angles. But RC doctrine says she was Immaculate in her mother's womb, which we rejects. So St.Mary was and is Immaculate and no harm to call her "Amalolbhava (sinless status)Mathave". If I am wrong, I request the learned members to correct me."

            I am not a learned member in this subject but wish to post my opinion regarding what is written by Mr. Issac. I too understand that St. Mary is immaculate but the point is when she became immaculate. Here is why I am doubtful whether we can use the word `Immaculate Conception" in its full unless we are very clear on the context in which that combination is used. Roman Catholic Church combines these two words to give the meaning that St. Mary is immaculate from the time her mother conceived her in the womb, which I understand that SOC don't accept. If we use this word in the context that St. Mary is immaculate from the time she was chosen to conceive Jesus in her womb, I think there is no harm to use the word to address St. Mary. But as the popular understanding is what is meant by the RC church, we should not use `the Immaculate Conception of St. Mary' as such and instead we can say that St.Mary is immaculate meaning pure/sinless in status in which context I too agree with Mr. Issac K Joseph regarding that usage.

            But I totally disagree with the usage of the Malayalam words `amalolbhava mathavu' to address St. Mary as it clearly means faultless from birth. When we disintegrate the Malayalam word `amalolbhava' it will be `a-mala-ulbhava' which means `ulbhavathile amalayayaval' where `a-mala' means `azhukkillatha/ thelinja/ parishudha' in Malayalam. So if we use the words `amalolbhava mathavu' to address St. Mary it will be same as the RC dogma that St. Mary is immaculate from her birth. So we should not promote the usage of the word `amalolbhava mathavu' to address St. Mary and if we want to address St. Mary as faultless or immaculate as she was choosen to conceive our lord Jesus we can use the word "amala mathavu' which means `kalankamillatha/ parishudha mathavu' and not `amalolbhava mathavu'

            This is what my understanding about the meaning of these two words in English and Malayalam and request learned members to correct me if I am wrong in understanding these words.

            Regards,
            Alex Thomas.
            # 971
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