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Immaculate Conception of Mary

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  • Mathew G M
    I have a doubt, does Syriac Orthodox Church teach about the Immaculate Conception of Mary ? I know the Roman Catholic Church teaches about this dogma. What
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 5, 2008
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      I have a doubt, does Syriac Orthodox Church teach about the "Immaculate
      Conception of Mary" ? I know the Roman Catholic Church teaches about
      this dogma. What is the official position of the SOC on this.

      Can any of the learned memebers of Thirumeni clarify this for me.

      In Christ,
      Mathew G M
      # 0929
    • Rev. Fr. Dr. Mani Rajan
      Dear moderator, This is in response to Item 3 of SOCM Digest No. 2687 The Syriac Orthodox Church does not accept the immaculate conception of St. Mary as
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 7, 2008
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        Dear moderator,

        This is in response to Item 3 of SOCM Digest No. 2687

        The Syriac Orthodox Church does not accept the immaculate conception
        of St. Mary as declared by Pope Pius IX in 1854. In contrast, Mary
        was born with the original sin. "For as in Adam all die, even so in
        Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22). "Therefore, just as
        through one man's sin entered the world, and death through sin, and
        thus death spread to all man, because all sinned" (Rom 3:23; Rom.
        5:12). "All" refers to mankind and it will be reasonable to include
        St. Mary in the group. The concluding prayer of the holy Qurbono
        after the final blessing includes St. Mary for whom the sacrifice was
        made.

        There is an important role for St. Mary in the redemption of
        mankind. However, the Catholic and Protestant Churches occupy the
        opposite poles on this matter. The Catholic Church goes to the
        extent qualifying St. Mary as corredemptrix. This term projects St.
        Mary to have an equal status in the redemptive act of Jesus Christ.
        The Protestant Church considers Mary as a lady used for Jesus to take
        flesh from, which was possible for any woman (Genesis 3:15; Gal
        4:4). The Syriac Orthodox Church qualifies St. Mary with different
        names, which are indicators of the theological teachings about her.
        Perpetual virgin, Mother of God, Mother of Church, first among the
        saints and the second Eve are a few of the qualifications. The
        teachings of Patriarch Severios of Antioch and that of Philoxinos of
        Mabbug are relevant in understanding the concepts about St. Mary.

        Fr. Dr. Mani Rajan

        --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Mathew G M wrote:
        >
        > I have a doubt, does Syriac Orthodox Church teach about
        the "Immaculate
        > Conception of Mary" ? I know the Roman Catholic Church teaches about
        > this dogma. What is the official position of the SOC on this.
        >
        > Can any of the learned memebers of Thirumeni clarify this for me.
        >
        > In Christ,
        > Mathew G M
        > # 0929
        >
      • Rin Sam
        Immaculate Conception Of virgin St. Mary. This is a Catholic Church dogma which state that St. Mary did not have any Sin Of Birth and Sin Of Deed. In real
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 7, 2008
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          Immaculate Conception Of virgin St. Mary.

          This is a Catholic Church dogma which state that St. Mary did not have
          any Sin Of Birth and Sin Of Deed. In real sense there is no sin of
          Birth (original sin) Immaculate means free from sin.

          The Orthodox Church believe that St. Mary inherited the Sin Of Adam
          (disobedience of Adam).However St. Mary was Blessed with Grace Of
          God. The angel said To Mary You Who are Highly Favoured, The Lord Is
          With You (Luke 1:28)Again in verse 30 " You have found favour with
          God" This mean St. Mary was fully blessed by Grace of Lord God .She
          (St. Mary) was an ordinary person like any other virgins who used to
          work at the temple of Lord. But The Lord Highly favoured her because
          of her meekness/humility.

          Rin Sam
          #4038

          --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Mathew G M wrote:
          >
          > I have a doubt, does Syriac Orthodox Church teach about
          the "Immaculate
        • H.E. Mor Deevannasios Geevarghese
          Dear moderators About Immaculate Conception In 1854, Pope Pius IX pronounced this dogma. Till 1854 Roman Catholic Church Had another faith. But we have yet
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 7, 2008
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            Dear moderators

            About "Immaculate Conception"

            In 1854, Pope Pius IX pronounced this dogma. Till 1854 Roman Catholic Church Had another faith. But we have yet not accepted this faith. It is our faith that Virgin Mary was born as a child of blessing to her parents who had no children for years. Adam's sin has passed from generation to generation till Jesus Christ and following the last soul to final Judgement.Jesus Christ keeping those who believe in Him and baptised in Him as a born again generation.

            About Mary as we have seen in St.Luke.

            Luk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that
            art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among
            women.
            Luk 1:29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and
            cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
            Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast
            found favour with God.
            Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring
            forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
            And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly
            favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
            Luk 1:29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and
            cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
            Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast
            found favour with God.
            Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring
            forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

            In Syriac we read as Angel Gabriel saying "Peace be with you Mariam
            full of Grace". If she was immaculate she was Grace filled and no
            need of another filling. But by the Grace of Holy Spirit She was
            redeemed and purified from the Sin of Birth. She became the Mother
            of God. Jesus also gave this blessing as the Mother of God to those
            who are doing the will of God.

            Luk 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my
            brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

            Now we can conclude, the immaculate conception is not the faith of
            our church, St. Mary, the Mother of God filled with Grace through her
            dedicated life and gave birth to Jesus Christ our Lord. She became
            the mediator and submitting us to God.

            Deevannasios Methrachan
            Manjanikkara
            08-08-08

            --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Mathew G M wrote:
            >
            > I have a doubt, does Syriac Orthodox Church teach about
            the "Immaculate
          • Issac K Joseph
            I think we misunderstood the word Immaculate . She was and is Immaculate (sinless status). Only difference is the timing. This is the difference between RC &
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 7, 2008
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              I think we misunderstood the word "Immaculate". She was and is Immaculate (sinless status). Only difference is the timing. This is
              the difference between RC & OO

              I think we, the OO church, believes that St. Mary become Immaculate (sinless status) from the time she was greeted by the Angles. But RC
              doctrine says she was Immaculate in her mother's womb, which we rejects. So St. Mary was and is Immaculate and no harm to call her "Amalolbhava (sinless status) Mathave". If I am wrong, I request
              the learned members to correct me.

              In Christ
              Issac K Joseph
              # 0917

              --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Mathew G M wrote:
              >
              > I have a doubt, does Syriac Orthodox Church teach about
              the "Immaculate
            • Alex Thomas
              Dear All, This is with reference to Mr. Issac K Joseph s posting on Immaculate Conception of St. Mary especially about what is given in the paragraph I think
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 7, 2008
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                Dear All,

                This is with reference to Mr. Issac K Joseph's posting on Immaculate Conception of St. Mary especially about what is given in the paragraph "I think we, the OO church, believes that St. Mary become Immaculate (sinless status) from the time she was greeted by the Angles. But RC doctrine says she was Immaculate in her mother's womb, which we rejects. So St.Mary was and is Immaculate and no harm to call her "Amalolbhava (sinless status)Mathave". If I am wrong, I request the learned members to correct me."

                I am not a learned member in this subject but wish to post my opinion regarding what is written by Mr. Issac. I too understand that St. Mary is immaculate but the point is when she became immaculate. Here is why I am doubtful whether we can use the word `Immaculate Conception" in its full unless we are very clear on the context in which that combination is used. Roman Catholic Church combines these two words to give the meaning that St. Mary is immaculate from the time her mother conceived her in the womb, which I understand that SOC don't accept. If we use this word in the context that St. Mary is immaculate from the time she was chosen to conceive Jesus in her womb, I think there is no harm to use the word to address St. Mary. But as the popular understanding is what is meant by the RC church, we should not use `the Immaculate Conception of St. Mary' as such and instead we can say that St.Mary is immaculate meaning pure/sinless in status in which context I too agree with Mr. Issac K Joseph regarding that usage.

                But I totally disagree with the usage of the Malayalam words `amalolbhava mathavu' to address St. Mary as it clearly means faultless from birth. When we disintegrate the Malayalam word `amalolbhava' it will be `a-mala-ulbhava' which means `ulbhavathile amalayayaval' where `a-mala' means `azhukkillatha/ thelinja/ parishudha' in Malayalam. So if we use the words `amalolbhava mathavu' to address St. Mary it will be same as the RC dogma that St. Mary is immaculate from her birth. So we should not promote the usage of the word `amalolbhava mathavu' to address St. Mary and if we want to address St. Mary as faultless or immaculate as she was choosen to conceive our lord Jesus we can use the word "amala mathavu' which means `kalankamillatha/ parishudha mathavu' and not `amalolbhava mathavu'

                This is what my understanding about the meaning of these two words in English and Malayalam and request learned members to correct me if I am wrong in understanding these words.

                Regards,
                Alex Thomas.
                # 971
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