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Re: Can you explain the difference

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  • Dipu George
    ... Answer For that I suggest that we read the History of the Syrian Orthodox Church and its Apostolic Faith by the most Rev Kanyamparambil Curien
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 9, 2008
      --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Rev. Fr. George Thankachan wrote:
      >

      >If you say IOC is an anathematised church, you will have to say that
      >St.Thomas- the Apostle of Christ and HH.Ignatios Abded Messiah
      >Patriarch who came to India to establish the 'Catholicate of the East'
      >in 1912 also excommunicants. Do you agree with this? Why do you >mislead poor people of your Church and invite curse upon you from heaven?

      Answer
      For that I suggest that we read the "History of the Syrian Orthodox Church and its Apostolic Faith" by the most Rev Kanyamparambil Curien Corespiscopa Achen. It deals in detail about the the origin of the term and title of Catholicose,the jurisdiction of the Antiochean Church and the drama behind inviting Abdel Messiah, who was not of sound mind into Malankara. One of the stalwarts of that diabolic feat later founded the Malankara Reeth. He claims that Vattasseril Dionysius favoured union with the Catholic Church of Rome and etc and etc.

      Curse upon from Heaven?
      Christ the Lord and our God is full of Infinite Compassion and Mercy. Why does this IOC Achen use terror and instill fear into inquisitive minds by saying such things? A man of God would have indeed said that May God have Mercy on you. Rather i should assume that this Achen is trying to stop us in inquiring more into this matter. Hope he doesn't "curse me" for saying this. I pray and Hope that what i have asked is a genuine attempt into understanding the true reasons for the Split in our Church.

      From what this "sinner" has learnt with his feeble intelligence is " God is Love"

      God is the source of infinite love. Out of this Love He created this universe and the world around us.

      To share in this Love He created woman for man and the rest of the creation.

      Can any Church born out of Hatred claim true succession from St Peter ( the Keys to Heaven and of this World and the Foundation - Rock- of faith and God's Love) or for that matter from St Thomas? Their whole Church revolves around the centre piece of an absurdity called " the 1934 Constitution" whose sole aim is division and severance from the ancient Church.Is that Holy?

      Does God reside in this Church of Hatred? Why did Vattasseril divide this Church? Was it out of Spiritual Reasons in terms of Faith or Materialistic ( The Malankara Metropolitan title and the perks associated with it)?

      If it was for Materialistic reasons .. then tell me how shall i be cursed for questioning the validity of the IOC Priesthood?

      As to the arrival of our beloved Patriarch during 2000 and 2004, the IOC Bishops were spewing venom all over the place threatening dire consequence if the Holy Moran steps foot on Malankara? Was it the Grace of God which prompted them to say all this?

      These incidents are unfortunately on record and i hope that this IOC Achen wont deny these.

      The IOC Bishops can conduct service in our places of Worship but they wont allow our beloved Patriarch into any of their Churches when He is their Supreme Head also. The IOC websites prove otherwise.

      I recall an incident from the Old testament about Esau denying his Birthright. We know the future of Esau's descendants from what we have read in the Bible.

      Look at the Protestant Churches and the Marthoma Church. They claim theirs is the true faith by denying Holy gifts and the martyrdom and faith of the early Church Fathers.

      Does the IOC consider them as true churches?

      All i asked was a question " Is the Priesthood of the IOC valid and the position of our Church regarding this"

      regards

      Dipu George
      St George Simhasana Church
      Tiruvalla
      0174
    • John Chacko
      Dear All I am writing because Jacobite bishops are keeping silent on most important matter loyalty and salmootho and very existance of Jacobite church. The
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 11, 2008
        Dear All

        I am writing because Jacobite bishops are keeping silent on most
        important matter loyalty and salmootho and very existance of
        Jacobite church.

        The Indian orthodox rebel group is a faction which gave birth when HH.Patriarch received complaint on mismanagement of a bishop, who on questioning, out of revenge declared he is equal to Patriarch and is head of church in India, who was excommunicated and who later begged at feet of Patriarch and he was restored. This group's aim is grab power and thus acquire wealth from all church,live as Political leaders. This group has violated all christian commands and oath taken in the name of God(salmootho). Everytime there is a conflict between false prophet and true prophet,christ himself warned about false prophet,this group survived initially on mercy of mother church who always forgave them in love of christ.

        Syriac Orthodox church of Antioch never believes in temporal power and wants to pardon false prophet, but Christ himself never forgave Judas,for this reason HH.Patriarch excommunicated those who viloated shalmootho including vattaseri,Nicolovos and new German monk ordained by Milithios. But Indian Jacobite leadership never excommunicated any of bishop who violated salmootho,though genuine Jacobites themselves have excommunicated them. There are many Jacobites who fear only God and keep distance from Jacobite bishop and who never recognise or accept blessing of Indian orthodox priest/bishop as they violated salmootho and betrayed master which is the greatest sin which Christ himself never forgave.

        The Indian Jacobite leaders statement they are ready to allow Indian
        orthodox priest conduct service is based on fact that practically it will never happen and jacobite peple will oppose.If this is allowed Jacobite church will break again,many will join prayer groups. And Mor Gregorios parumala's shalmootho clearly says he is a Jacobite bishop loyal to Patriarch though after his death false prophet grabbed his tomb and make money. Genuine jacobites never visit Parumala,they intercede from heart as it will be an insult to visit Parumala Thirumeni's tomb,if they visit a commercial anti-christian groups controlled tomb.

        Jacobite leadership should be more careful before making such comment (to allow IOC priest in some church for worship), as such a union will divide Jacobite church.

        Genuine Jacobites are people who fear only God,they keep distance from even Jacobite bishop and worship God alone,they never associate with/accept priest/bishop who violate shalmootho or betray their master.

        This group may not appear in forums, but they live in silence in different parts of world. They themselves ban Indian orthodox for closing the place of worship of God in many places by filing fake case, exploiting some Indian judicial clause.

        So ultimately it is the substance of each people who will decide and
        act according to his faith,genuine Jacobites only keep away from
        Indian orthodox because they have diluted truth with lies.A true beliver who worship and fear only God and who studies history of church  unbaised if he is a syriac orthodox will never associate with Indian orthodox rebel/false bishops. Even if Indian Jacobite leadership is afraid to excommunicate bishops like Milithios,they follow automatically the Patriarchal bull of excommunication in this.

        If by favour Indian orthodox priest conduct service in St.Marks monastry it is surely a bad act, which should not be permitted, but we dont have to judge it as God will never ever accept qurbano of a prophet who violated salmootho(oath taken in God's name several times) and has betrayed his master and has closed 100's of worship places for power in India.

        Further ,the kingdom of God is not this world, hence this world is ruled by satan, so it is not God's will that Indian orthodox should exist,further its satan's responsibility to retain fake bishops in this world to fight with God.Even devil worshipers exist here .

        SOCM Forum should not allow message which is completely lie
        even if its from IOC priest. Dont allow lie from Indian orthodox
        in this forum too much, permit truth if there is any.

        Chacko John Korah
        St.Peters Jacobite chapel
        Trichur
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      • Dipu George
        Dear Brethren, If i am right ...Nicolavos, Militios and Athanasius were excommunicated by our HH Patriarch for actions unbecoming of Bishops. If that is the
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 11, 2008
          Dear Brethren,

          If i am right ...Nicolavos, Militios and Athanasius were excommunicated by our HH Patriarch for actions unbecoming of Bishops.
          If that is the case ...were they re consecrated again as bishops when they joined the IOC or is the IOC ignoring and disrespecting our Patriarch and Church and yet being hypocrites by saying they want unity?

          Imagine the number of priests they have consecrated and will consecrate in the near future?

          Would any of the SOC members partake the Eucharist from such priests?
          If unknowingly then we havent committed sin.. If yes..then?
          They consecrated a rebel Syrian Bishop to teach our Beloved HH Patriarch a lesson?

          Was it inspired by the Grace of God or the Devil? Consecrating a Bishop is a Holy Act . These Guys made it a mockery.

          Does this mean none of the IOC will ever enter Heaven?

          nope... All our souls belong to the Lord and after our earthly life our souls return back to Him and abide in Him unless we have committed sins against the Holy Spirit.

          For that we have to lead a Holy Life ,partake of the correct Eucharist whenever we can.and follow the commandments and sacraments a instructed by our Lord and God.

          Where there is hate there is no God.

          I wish some of the learned clergy in this forum would throw more light into this matter.

          regards

          Dipu George
          St George Simhasana Church
          Tiruvalla
          0174
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