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Re: Mission of the Holy Church

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  • Johnson
    Dear brother in Christ, I feel that either you are confused or pretends to be confused. It is evident from the church history that the title of Jerusalem
    Message 1 of 14 , May 12, 2008
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      Dear brother in Christ,

      I feel that either you are confused or pretends to be confused. It
      is evident from the church history that the title of Jerusalem
      Patriarch or 5th Patriarch is only decorative to the Syriac Orthodox
      Arch bishop of Jersuslem and as any other bishop H.E is leading a
      diocese under H.H Patriarch.

      In his love
      Johnson
      #2335

      --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Sajy Thannikkottu wrote:
      >
      > Thank you for this message.
      >
      > Does it mean Jerusalem Patriarch is a position similar to the one
      of H
      > B Catholicose and similarly leads a community under HH Zakha Iwas.
      >
    • Sajy Thannikkottu
      Dear brother Are you referring to Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and Jordan: Mor Severius Malke Mourad? Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu # 2912
      Message 2 of 14 , May 12, 2008
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        Dear brother

        Are you referring to Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and Jordan: Mor
        Severius Malke Mourad?

        Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu
        # 2912

        --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Johnson wrote:
        >
        > Dear brother in Christ,
        >
        > I feel that either you are confused or pretends to be confused. It
        > is evident from the church history that the title of Jerusalem
        > Patriarch or 5th Patriarch is only decorative to the Syriac Orthodox
        > Arch bishop of Jersuslem and as any other bishop H.E is leading a
        > diocese under H.H Patriarch.
      • Shinu Jesus Abraham
        Greetings to all Let us don t blame the priests or the laymen of IOC for their lack of knowledge on history, Patriarchate or Jerusalem Patriarch. It is the
        Message 3 of 14 , May 13, 2008
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          Greetings to all

          Let us don't blame the priests or the laymen of IOC for their lack
          of knowledge on history, Patriarchate or Jerusalem Patriarch. It is
          the result of all the manipulations of top think tanks of MOC
          (Malankara/ Manorama / Muthoot - whatever fits can be read)
          especially in the last 40+ years. Let us only try to help them –
          those willing let them see with their eyes, hear with their ears and
          understand with their hearts.

          Those priests who believe in Priesthood may refer the scolarary
          work "Mathopadesa Sarangal" by Mor Dionysius Geevarghese Vattasseril
          who created IOC understands from where the apostolic succession is
          from, before commenting "the Patriarch is not accepted by Malankara
          Sabha". Please don't comment before understanding the manipulations
          already made on the original work.

          Those who don't know who was St. Peter and what he was assigned can
          read another scholarary work in the below link. Pages 29,30 do refer
          in detail about the Patriarch of Jerusalem too.

          http://www.geocities.com/malankaraorthodoxfaith/ThomasAthanasius_Initial_Page.htm

          Those who don't know the church history can have a quick reference
          at the very famous mulamthuruthy padiola. Below is a link short and
          sweet which was hand written by our own Kochu Thirumeni who believed
          and practiced that SOC faith his whole life. May be a scroll through
          the signatories may reveal some of our close relatives / forefathers
          who did pledge on behalf of us too.

          http://www.geocities.com/parumalathirumeni/Padiyola_Malayalam.htm

          and

          http://www.syrianchurch.org/MalankaraSyrianChurch/MalankaraHistory.htm

          Those interested to know the chronological order of our hierarchs in
          SOC may refer the below links which cannot be produced by any of the
          20th century churches

          http://sor.cua.edu/Patriarchate/PatriarchsChronList.html

          and

          http://catholicose.org/PauloseII/Catholicate.htm


          Those still interested to learn more may find the below link equally
          interesting and useful.

          http://www.syrianchurch.org/Books.htm

          May God bless us all

          Shinu Jesus Abraham
          Id # 2908
        • Sajy Thannikkottu
          Though Shinu s message wasn t addressed to me I thought to respond as it appeared under my message. My question Are you referring to Patriarchal-Vicarate of
          Message 4 of 14 , May 16, 2008
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            Though Shinu's message wasn't addressed to me I thought to respond as it appeared under my message. My question "Are you referring to Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and Jordan: Mor Severius Malke Mourad?" was a kind of one word question-answer.

            I am not ashamed of accepting if I don't know. I am not interested in discussing topics such as IOC or SOC thinktanks as mentioned. I remember a similar inconclusive debate with you had sometime back. And this time I asked this question as a continuation of a message posted here.

            Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu
            # 2912
          • Shinu Jesus Abraham
            Dear Sajy To my limited knowledge Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and Jordan: Mor Severius Malke Mourad is the current successor of Mor Abdul Jaleel Bava,
            Message 5 of 14 , May 17, 2008
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              Dear Sajy

              To my limited knowledge Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and
              Jordan: Mor Severius Malke Mourad is the current successor of Mor
              Abdul Jaleel Bava, though centuries of trials and tribulations have
              reduced the power and size of the holy seat. Many of the
              metropolitans and catholicose of both SOC and IOC have visited this
              partriarchate and have conducted holy Eucharist in the very famous
              St. Marks monastery in the last century. Hope some learned can
              through some light on the history.

              http://www.syrianchurch.org/Paravur/StGregorios.htm

              and

              http://www.saintgregorios.org/PARUMALA/pilgrimage.htm

              Shinu Jesus Abraham
              ID # 2908

              --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Sajy Thannikkottu wrote:
              >
              > Though Shinu's message wasn't addressed to me I thought to respond
              as it appeared under my message. My question "Are you referring to
              Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and Jordan: Mor Severius Malke
              Mourad?" was a kind of one word question-answer.
              >
            • Sajy Thannikkottu
              Dear brothers Seeing the tone of of some messages I thought those who posted them could be well studied. I hope someone in the forum could help me to know more
              Message 6 of 14 , May 19, 2008
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                Dear brothers

                Seeing the tone of of some messages I thought those who posted them
                could be well studied. I hope someone in the forum could help me to
                know more about the current Jerussalem Patriarch. I haven't seen
                anything introducing Mor Severius Malke Mourad as Mor Gregorious in
                SOC websites. As refering in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOCM-FORUM/message/12415 we remember Mor Gregorious not Mor Severius

                Ps: Most of us fight only because we have seen some others in that
                fight. We've taken a side only because others have taken a side. For a
                Typical Malayali, it is not necessary to know the reason before
                entering a warfield.

                regards

                Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu
                # 2912
              • Sunny M. Jacob
                Dear All, I find a transition for the subject text on comparing 2 Holy Qurbana Kramam, ie. 1. H Qubana kramam (MSOT Seminary 2003 edition) which gives ....
                Message 7 of 14 , May 21, 2008
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                  Dear All,
                  I find a transition for the subject text on comparing 2 Holy Qurbana
                  Kramam, ie.
                  1. H Qubana kramam (MSOT Seminary 2003 edition) which gives "....
                  nammude Pathriyarkkisaya Moran Mor Ignathiouse Zakka Pradhamanu
                  vendiyum sreshta Katholikka Aboon Mor Baseliouse Thomas Pradhamanu
                  vendiyum nammude melpattakkaran..... nu vendiyum..."

                  2. Aradhana Sahayi, onnaam bhagam, kollavarsham 1122)- "nammude
                  Pathriyarkkisaya Aboon Mar Ignathiousinu vendiyum, nammude
                  melpattakkaran Mor--- nu vendiyum"

                  Can any one explain the tansition.

                  Kindly shower light to the 1'st Dypthic that is read and prayed in
                  Our Holy Church under the Holy See of Antioch, that
                  states "....nammude Pathriyarkkisaya...." and not "....nammude
                  pathriayarkkesanmaraya...."

                  My brother in Christ Mr.Johnson, could you please define plurality
                  of Holy Patriarch from what you have mentioned.

                  Sunny
                  ID #3320
                  --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Johnson wrote:
                  >
                  > Shlomo,
                  >
                  > The Syriac Orthodox bishop in Jerusalem used to be honararily
                  > decorated as the 5th Patriarch (or Jerusalem Patriarch) with the
                  > name 'Mor Gregorious' like Mor Iganatius for the Holy Patriarch,
                  Mor
                  > Baselious for the H.B Catholicose. This honour was provided by the
                  > church in large due to the importance and significance of
                  Jerusalem.
                  > We do pray in 1'st Dypthic as 'Innum ee ayushkalathum namme meyichu
                  > bharikkunna nammude pathriayarkkesanmaraya Moran Mor Ignathiosinu
                  > vendium Aboon Mor Gregoriousinu vendiyum Aboon Mor Baseliousinu
                  > vendiyum ...........
                  >
                  > In his love
                  > Johnson
                  > #2335.
                  >
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