Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

True believe

Expand Messages
  • S Chandy
    Hi all in Christ, We always claim that we Jacobites are the first Christians and we have the true practice of Christianity, the same we used to teach our
    Message 1 of 13 , May 11, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi all in Christ,

      We always claim that we Jacobites are the first Christians and we have
      the true practice of Christianity, the same we used to teach our
      children on all circumstances, but at the time of their marriage we
      are ready to throw them to any Christians believes or denominations,
      by doing this are we truthful or faithful to our self?, is it right?.
      Please share your opinion.

      regds
      S Chandy
      ========================
      From the desk of the Moderator:
      Please sign your messages with member ID. If not having a member ID, please send your details including contact number to moderators
      (SOCM-FORUM-owner@yahoogroups.com)and obtain a member ID BEFORE POSTING ANY MORE MESSAGES in SOCM. Thank you for your cooperation.
    • Dr. Sinu Punnasseril John
      Dear Mr. Chandy, This is a serious issue for the Syriac Orthodox from Malankara in places where we are minorities. There are several reasons why this is
      Message 2 of 13 , May 12, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Mr. Chandy,

        This is a serious issue for the Syriac Orthodox from Malankara in places where we are minorities. There are several reasons why this is happening. In dioceses like Angamaly where there are a lot of our members, it is very easy for people to find suitable alliances from our own church. However, it is not so easy for people living in other places.

        Another factor for this inter denominational marriage is the dowry system. Unfortunately, our members are behind the dowry system and
        has been in practice for several decades now. Dowry should be decided by the parents of the females rather than the male's parents. What we see nowadays is that parents of the boy asking dowry of certain amount and without the promise for that amount, they will not proceed with the alliance! For them it is more important to get money / property when their son is getting married than getting an appropriate girl! It has also become a family's prestige issue to tell other people how much their son got as dowry! In my opinion, this practice should be banned first in our church. When it comes to find a suitable alliance for girls, many of the parents find affordable ones from other denominations than our own church. For parents who are not so keen on their faith (probably more than 60%), in that scenario, prefers alliances from other denominations who ask (agree for), less dowry. In some cases parents will be forced to give their daughter to the boys of other churches, even if they didnt want to do so, because they could not find a boy from our own church at all.

        People living in other countries have more difficulties than who
        lives in India. In US, as far as I know, the dowry spractice is not
        so common. However, parents in US who insists marriages only within our church have a hard time finding suitable alliances, in an arranged marriage. Partly because our community in US is so small to have a broader search. Even with todays online matrimonials and other medias, alliances are still difficult within our church in US. In that case, most often parents tend to find alliances from other churches like Indian Orthodox, Marthoma or Roman Catholic churches. After all, people prefer alliances through personal contacts rather than matrimonial advertisement though medias.

        2001 census of India shows a Male/Female ratio of 0.96 for
        christians in Kerala. This means we have more females than males among Kerala Christians! Similar is the case of total Males/Females in Kerala. Though we haven't done a census in our church, I would assume it is a similar scenario (not sure, unless an accurate census is done). If it is true in our church, it means we will end up loosing at least a few females to other denominations (unless they decide to join the convents) or will have difficulty in finding alliances from our own church. The lower number of males, will again force parents of females to arrange marriages from other denominations. Because this will widen the search for males. If this ratio continues (only in the hands of God) in near future,alliances will become a more serious problem than now. There are some research studies which shows that high energy diet intake of mothers during conception will influence the chances of having baby boys!

        http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/boy-or-girl-the-answer-may-depend-on-moms-eating-habits/?incamp=article_popular_3

        However the exact scientific mechanism, how a high energy diet influenze the selection of baby boys, is not clear. Moreover, it is only a correlative study. So selection of male/female is far away scientifically in natural fertilization.

        The difficulty in finding suitable alliances for parents of females,
        because of the disproportionate ratio, will be augmented by dowry
        practice in India. So what we can do now is to battle against this practice. But not sure how many of our church leaders and members will come forward in doing so!

        A significant number of our families attend other churches especially IOC, when they are far away from Kerala (Outside Kerala dioceses in India). In these cases it is easier for them to find alliances from the church they attend or through the members of that church. This is where we loose our members silently! No one is bothered about it! Part of those who attend their Sunday schools will be brain washed to the so called 'national fanaticism in faith' of IOC.

        Our boys getting married from other churches is not detrimental, in view, to our church, because of the tradition we follows in India; girl joining the church of the boy after marriage. However, this trend should NOT be encouraged, especially if we have less number of boys than girls. Otherwise, it will make it difficult for our girls to find boys from our own church!

        Our church can definitely have an office at Puthencruz to
        facilitate (not sure if there is one already) marriages within our church and also to discourage the interdenominational marriages. The office should have details of the people who live in other countries as well as out side Kerala (in India). It will be easier if we have a computer based data system with the details of all our youths in search of partners.

        Regards,

        Sinu Punnasseril John, PhD
        Boston, MA, USA

        ID:0076


        --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, S Chandy wrote:
        >
        > Hi all in Christ,
        >
        > We always claim that we Jacobites are the first Christians and we
        have
        > the true practice of Christianity, the same we used to teach our
        > children on all circumstances, but at the time of their marriage we
        > are ready to throw them to any Christians believes or denominations,
        > by doing this are we truthful or faithful to our self?, is it
        right?.
        > Please share your opinion.
      • Regie Zacheriah Koshy
        Dear S Chandy, Under the said conditions , a non christian / a spiritually weak christian would loose his/her confidence in the faith that is
        Message 3 of 13 , May 13, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear S Chandy,

          Under the said conditions , a non christian / a spiritually weak christian would loose his/her confidence in the faith that is professed. Probably in Jesus Christ as well - as we claim to be led by Him at the same time. 
           
          Sincerly & best regards,
           
          Regie Zacheriah Koshy.
          From- ID # is 4039

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: "S@..." <S@...>
          To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:58:09 PM
          Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] True believe


          Hi all in Christ,

          We always claim that we Jacobites are the first Christians and we have
          the true practice of Christianity, the same we used to teach our
          children on all circumstances, but at the time of their marriage we
          are ready to throw them to any Christians believes or denominations,
          by doing this are we truthful or faithful to our self?, is it right?.
          Please share your opinion.
        • Susan
          Hi, I think what we need is a speed dating event. I hardly ever meet eligible Syrian Orthodox bachelors, forget having a choice then. And as an eligible
          Message 4 of 13 , May 14, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi,

            I think what we need is a speed dating event. I hardly ever meet eligible Syrian Orthodox bachelors, forget having a choice then. And as an eligible Syrian Orthodox bachelorette (or bacheloress as the case maybe!), I can assure you that, in as many as the numerous profiles I've been through and dealt with, there never was one where we got to the dowry-discussion stage before the proposal failed to take fruition!

            So maybe we are all concentrating on the wrong problem by discussing dowry here. Or it just might be that I am unique in this respect. The real problem from my perspective is the lack of opportunities to socialize with like-minded (faith and education-wise) youth! How do you propose to solve that?

            Oh, and also to qoute - "For parents who are not so keen on their faith (probably more than 60%), in that scenario, prefers alliances from other denominations who ask (agree for), less dowry.". Where did that figure of 60% come from? Is it from a researched study or something of the like?

            Regards,
            Susan
            #0878
          • Sherin Chandy
            Hi Sinu, You are right, Its good to have such a database so that our marriages can be restricted in our own community and in some cases I suggest alliance with
            Message 5 of 13 , May 14, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Sinu,

              You are right, Its good to have such a database so that our
              marriages can be restricted in our own community and in some cases I
              suggest alliance with Roman Catholic also not that bad as they too
              follow the same apostolic blessings. And the system of dowry should
              be killed, this can be achieved by induviduals think of not
              promoting it while they get married.

              In his Love
              S Chandy


              --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Dr. Sinu Punnasseril John wrote:
              >
              > Dear Mr. Chandy,
              >
              > This is a serious issue for the Syriac Orthodox from Malankara in
              places where we are minorities. There are several reasons why this
              is happening. In dioceses like Angamaly where there are a lot of our
              members, it is very easy for people to find suitable alliances from
              our own church. However, it is not so easy for people living in
              other places.

              ========================
              From the desk of the Moderator:
              Dear Sherin
              Please sign your messages with member ID. If not having a member ID, please send your details including contact number to moderators
              (SOCM-FORUM-owner@yahoogroups.com)and obtain a member ID BEFORE POSTING ANY MORE MESSAGES in SOCM. Thank you for your cooperation.
            • Dr. Sinu Punnasseril John
              Dear S. Chandy, I personally don t think encouraging marriage with RC is good. First, we are not in full communion with them (we have only partial communion;
              Message 6 of 13 , May 14, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear S. Chandy,

                I personally don't think encouraging marriage with RC is good. First,
                we are not in full communion with them (we have only partial
                communion; in cases where intermarriages are unavoidable, baptism and
                marriages are mutually accepted. Also, in cases any of the members
                are not accessible to their own church, they are allowed to receive
                communion from the other church). Second, RC insists their daughters
                getting married only to RC boys but mean time have no problem in their son getting married from other churches, especially Jacobite church. There are not many cases where the Jacobite boys getting married from RC church. When comes to a marriage, RC church is very vigilant in loosing their members. I remember the story of a poor RC parents, who wanted their dauther getting married to a Jacobite boy. The RC church (priest) didn't cooperate with it! This was a news in the TV channel that time. When this happened, our church already had agreement on marriages with RC. The RC priest in a TV interview, said he thought the boy belonged to the IOC, when notified about the church agreement. But actually the parents had repeatedly told him that was not the case! This is not a single incident and I have seen similar cases happening in Thrissur, Malabar areas, whom I personally know of. So they are very strict when a RC girl getting married outside the RC. On the other hand, Jacobites are not worried about it at all in any cases, whether it is a boy or girl! This type of selected marriages to RC are detrimental to our church as we will only loose our own members. So I would still insist marriages within Jacobites!

                Hi Susan,

                I appreciate your willingness to share your own personal experience here. As I told before, there are several reasons why parents opt for a different denominations when seeking marriages for their children and dowry practice is only one among those! A vast majority of the Jacobite population in Kerala still follows strict dowry practice. I moved to US about 8 years ago and I assume that dowry practice in Kerala has not been changed since then!

                You asked me where this number 60% (I wrote: probably more than 60%), came from and I thank you for pointing it out. I wanted to say more than 50% but some how I mistyped 60% and might have sounded like a research study figure. But it is not, and is only an assumption and I apologize for it. I wrote 'probably' to point out that, it is only an assumption. If you can ask 10 families in your (Jacobite) church, whether they care giving away their daughters to other churches outside Jacobite, I expect at least 5 of them (probably more) will say they dont care. I have personally done this with a lot of members in our churches and was surprised that most of our members are not at all concerned about such marriages. You can also have a look at the matrimonial sections and see that there are only a few who insist marriages within Jacobite church. But if you ask 10 families of RC, you will be surprised to hear what they think! In my earlier posting, I mentioned that we should learn from Knanayites in this regard. In some cases, parents are helpless; love marriages, dowry issues, not finding a Jacobite member etc and I don't blame them for that.

                What I want to say is that our church leaders and priests should
                insist marriages within our church and also should facilitate such
                marriages. Starting an office for this process will be a good start.

                You may think that the 'speed date' will facilitate marriages. But it may not be true in some (or most) cases. It is adding up another step in the traditional way of arranged marriages followed in Kerala. If some one prefer a 'speed date' before marriage, then it will take a day, a week (not sure how long you meant a 'speed date' should be) or whatever time for the date to figure out that, that proposal is not going to work out. Then that person will try another one and will take its own time to figure out if it is going to work out or not (most likely not!). So as many 'speed date' a person do, it is making the marriage process more complicated and lengthy, in my personal opinion. I am sure there are people with different opinion about it. In some cases I have heard it worked! But definitely, not many! Both the traditional way of arranged marriages and pre-marital dates have its own mertis and demerits. But I don't prefer to get into that discussion in this forum.

                Dear Mr. Thomas,

                It is not fanaticism to limit marriages within our community. You will definitely find a suitable person from our own church. But you just need to look for it (Unless you think all our members, including yourself, are bad!). If you are only looking for a suitable partner for your daughter, you can find them even among Hindus, Muslims, Pentecosts or among Jehovah Witness's. Because they all may have very good people. But none of them proclaim our faith, which is most important! If we love Jesus Christ and our church, who is the bride of Jesus, we should not allow giving away our own children to other denominations. When you consider love among others, you should also consider this important love, which is probably not visible! In most cases this important love for their mother church is forgotten while alliances are sought. Love Jesus Christ and his Bride, the church. As per our faith, it is the Syriac Orthodox Church and the churches in full communion with us. It doesn't mean that we should hate other churches or we are fanatic. We should love every one. But we should not forget that we should love our own church as well! I am sure you and most other 'sensible' parents do love our church but this love is forgotten when looking for alliances, most likely, unknowingly.

                I am also a parent but as per your ideology, a 'non-sensible' parent (smile!)


                Regards,

                Sinu P. John, PhD
                Boston, USA
                ID:0076
              • Thomas Mathew
                Dear Brothers and Sisters, Do we need to be that fanatic to limit the choice within our church. As a parent my first preference/prayer will be to get a
                Message 7 of 13 , May 14, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Brothers and Sisters,

                  Do we need to be that fanatic to limit the choice within our church. As a parent my first preference/prayer will be to get a suitable partner for my children. Church will be a factor I prefer, but I will not (I assume all other sensible parents will not) sacrifice other important factors mearly for Church.

                  Let us spread the message of love. Let us try to love the individuals
                  than giving much importance to the denomination they belong to. After
                  all everything is GOD's creation.

                  With Warm Regards..
                  Thomas Mathew.
                  # 4800

                  --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Dr. Sinu Punnasseril John wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Mr. Chandy,
                  >
                  > This is a serious issue for the Syriac Orthodox from Malankara in
                  places where we are minorities. There are several reasons why this is
                  happening. In dioceses like Angamaly where there are a lot of our
                  members, it is very easy for people to find suitable alliances from our
                  own church. However, it is not so easy for people living in other
                  places.
                • Regie Koshy
                  Dear Sinu, Hi , I am new to the forum . I was just reading through the discussions on the forum and its intersting . I  would like to clarify something ...
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 16, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Sinu,

                    Hi , I am new to the forum . I was just reading through the discussions on the forum and its intersting . I  would like to clarify something ... if I may...

                    Who came first and who deserves first place ....God or the Church ?
                     
                    Sincerly & best regards,
                     
                    Regie Zacheriah Koshy.
                    From- ID # 4039


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    >Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] Re: True belief: Interdenominational Marriages
                    >
                    >Dear S. Chandy,
                    >
                    >I personally don't think encouraging marriage with RC is good. First,
                    >we are not in full communion with them (we have only partial
                    >communion; in cases where intermarriages are unavoidable, baptism and
                    >marriages are mutually accepted. Also, in cases any of the members
                    >are not accessible to their own church, they are allowed to receive
                    >communion from the other church). Second, RC insists their daughters
                    >getting married only to RC boys but mean time have no problem in >their son getting married from other churches, especially Jacobite church.
                  • Dr. Sinu Punnasseril John
                    Dear Regie, I am pretty sure you know the answer to your own question! When we say we should love our church, it doesn t mean that we are forgetting our Lord
                    Message 9 of 13 , May 16, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Regie,

                      I am pretty sure you know the answer to your own question!

                      When we say we should love our church, it doesn't mean that we are
                      forgetting our Lord for the sake of our church! Loving the true church means you are loving (following) the true teaching of the Lord (1 Timothy 4:6, "If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed"). Lord wanted us to follow the true teachings of our Lord, Jesus. We should be proud to say that our church, and the churches in full communion with us, are the only churches who follow this true teaching. Our church is not just based on Bible but rather the true apostolic teachings and traditions as well. As you know Bible is 100% accurate but NOT 100% complete. We emphasize the traditions we followed directly from Jesus through his desciples (2 Thess. 2:15, "Therefore, brethren stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or by our epistle") in addition to the Bible. Since Bible is not complete, our apostolic traditions fill that incompleteness. But NOT many churches do follow this true traditions. Moreover, other churches interpret Bible in their own way contradictory to the truth (thus we are not in communion with them). That is why we should limit our marriages within our own church, to prevent our children falling to false teachings (Galatians 1:6-9). So if God is important to you, then the true church should be important to you as well (Hebrews 2:1, "We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away"). Should we allow our own kids to drift away from what truth our church taught them? (1 Timothy 4:13, "Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching")

                      Regards,

                      Sinu P. John, PhD
                      Boston, USA
                      ID:0076

                      PS: For more accurate translation of the versus, please refer to the Peshitha Bible or the Bible translated by Most Rev. Dr. Kurien Corepiscopa Kaniamaparampil, in Malayalam.

                      >Re: True belief: Interdenominational Marriages
                      >Dear Sinu,

                      >Hi , I am new to the forum . I was just reading through the
                      >discussions on the
                      >forum and its intersting . I would like to clarify something ... if
                      >I may...

                      >Who came first and who deserves first place ....God or the Church ?
                    • Regie Koshy
                      Dear Sinu, God Bless you richly for your evident spirit of fellowship.   Yes, I have my opinion on the question.   I was only attempting to point out that
                      Message 10 of 13 , May 18, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Sinu,

                        God Bless you richly for your evident spirit of fellowship.

                        Yes, I have my�opinion on the�question.

                        I was only attempting to point out that God�IS first.�Always was, is and will be first. No body else can stand with Him on an equal footing. � I am the Lord, My Glory I will not give to another or my praise to graven images �

                        When one has understood [by His Grace] the cost God had to pay for our salvation, it will fill our hearts with Love for God and His Christ. This in turn will help us to love the Body of our Lord Jesus Christ as our own. The question arises � What if we meet another individual from a Hindu background or a Buddhist background. Are we going to stress that He or She must belong to the Jacobite church to be saved?

                        Or are we going to introduce Calvary and the Word of God � in whatever form we have it now {Complete or incomplete}. Once he accepts the Lord as His saviour and refuses to walk in our faith in the Jacobite system - Will we be able to love Him or Her as a member of the Body of Christ because he has received Jesus as His saviour and is filled with His spirit ?

                        If the answer is yes, then why is it that with this divine love in our hearts {as we claim to possess it ] we are not able to go to even a Pentecostals house or a Marthomites house or a Roman Catholics house and participate in a simple cottage prayer meeting with them? Assume that there is no church doctrine mentioned but only singing and preaching an evangelistic full gospel message.

                        We won�t do that. Why?

                        Because, I think �we are bound by our church spirit.. I however cannot bring myself to believe that the Apostles of Christ or the early church were bound by a church spirit. They were always willing to associate with others � only the others put them out of their company because of Christ and his Nature was inherent in them and this made them uncomfortable. In how many places are we cast out because we make people spiritually uncomfortable because of our blameless christian life ? The honest answer is No. Because we are in the mess like them - only with another name on our foreheads.

                        Sinu, I hold the opinion that the True doctrine is filled with the Power of God. The Power is in the doctrine word. When one is anchored in the true doctrine, then one is connected to the Power of God � which is manifested in the realm of Divine Love. You cannot say that you are a believer of the true doctrine and not have the Power inherent in your spirit to love someone or to heal or whatever that God intends in his own sovereignty. Most of all when you have divine love in your heart � you are not afraid of going away from your faith. The assurance is inbuilt into you. You are tied with Christ in a Holy Wedlock bound by the seven fold Holy Spirit. Yes you may fall here and there or you may backslide temporarily � but ultimately Love will prevail.

                        When I look at some of the recent past�news headlines concerning the tiff with the Orthodox believers {which if you remember actually led to serious physical contact in some time past] � I honestly am not able to reconcile the claim made - along with the actions that follow. You should have seen some of the our guys on the TV. It felt that the only thing they lacked was a machine gun !

                        I fail to see the Gospel of Jesus Christ manifested in the power of the resurrection. I feel that we are no different from the rest of them [Let us sweep our own house first clean so I speak for us alone at the moment. Whether or not others around us need a spiritual cleaning is left for those spiritually minded in their midst to re-enforce]

                        However the elect few � are always out of this mess.

                        My mind goes back to the OT story. When Lot was in the denomination called Sodom and Gomorrah [so to speak] � Abraham and Sarah were out of it and in the wilderness alone to themselves and God. God was in the camp fellowship with them � while Lot was arguing about which church belonged to whom etc.

                        Also I remember the words that God spoke when the children of Israel wanted a King.

                        God said that they had rejected Him Personally leading them through an anointed Prophet of God � Samuel.

                        They wanted to be like the rest of the world � a big powerful denomination with a King at the head. God was out of the picture � even though they did not accept it. They had the Law of Moses to claim as the original teachings, along with the traditions of the elders of those days and the tabernacles at Shiloh or elsewhere. God�s diagnoses however was � THEY HAVE REJECTED ME.

                        In the laodecean church age of Revelations - which I believe it is this age that we live in . How did Christ end up outside the door knocking to be let in ? Is there one church today in our vicinity that will confess that they have put Christ outside the door ? Not one. However the Word of God shows us that He is indeed outside the church and knocking. The call is now to the Individual - He that will let me in , He He, He. I will come and sup with Him{Singular} and He with me..... In every church age the spirit was calling to individuals. Christ is on the outside. We however claim He is inside. A paradox? No. The truth neverthless. We put him on the outside with out attitude, We put him on the outside when we refused to be led by Him, We put him on the outside when we rejected his revealed word to us to love the rest as they are. Yet we claim to be the real stuff.

                        Our beliefs are good. However God himself must turn around and confirm our faith as genuine. That is manifested by the depth of divine love we will possess in our hearts insomuch that it will become impossible for us to sleep at night � as we will find ourselves crying and sighing for the abominations done in the city. It was those people that the angel with the inkhorn marked � in the Book of Ezekiel. All the rest with their claims � DIED under divine Judgment.

                        The Question that our Lord asked Peter has come out to the open now with a more serious implication � what think YE of CHRIST �?

                        The church was established/ set up intending to manifest this Love for the Person of God in His SON through our Lives � to all the lost, sick and dying.

                        We are accountable to God who allowed His own son to die the death on the cross � for what we have done with the spirit of Love.�

                        I ask again � what are we focused on? Who came first and who deserves the first place? God or the church?
                        �God bless you once again.

                        Sincerly & best regards,
                        Regie Zacheriah Koshy.
                        ID # 4039.�


                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: "Dr.@..." <Dr.@...>
                        To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 12:04:31 AM
                        Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] Re: True belief: Interdenominational Marriages


                        Dear Regie,

                        I am pretty sure you know the answer to your own question!

                        When we say we should love our church, it doesn't mean that we are
                        forgetting our Lord for the sake of our church! Loving the true church means you are loving (following) the true teaching of the Lord (1 Timothy 4:6, "If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed"). Lord wanted us to follow the true teachings of our Lord, Jesus. We should be proud to say that our church, and the churches in full communion with us, are the only churches who follow this true teaching. Our church is not just based on Bible but rather the true apostolic teachings and traditions as well. As you know Bible is 100% accurate but NOT 100% complete. We emphasize the traditions we followed directly from Jesus through his desciples (2 Thess. 2:15, "Therefore, brethren stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or by our epistle") in addition to the Bible. Since Bible is not complete, our
                      • Dr. Sinu Punnasseril John
                        Dear Regie, Happy to see your eager to love other denominations. Yes, you should definitely love them! Our church is meant for love and is built based on love.
                        Message 11 of 13 , May 19, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Dear Regie,

                          Happy to see your eager to love other denominations. Yes, you should
                          definitely love them! Our church is meant for love and is built based on love. But as yourself pointed out, you should love God first! But the question is, what do you mean by loving God? Saying 'I love you God', or 'I love you Jesus', ten times a day? Definitely, not! Love is not done by word but by action! Bible teaches how to love: (1 John 3:18) "Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth". Now, what is action? (1
                          John 5:3) "This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,". You should love others definitely, but also carry out his commands in truth! His commands are what our church teaches in truth! So you should love members of your own church as well (1 Peter 2:17) "Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king". Our church teaches his commands in truth, with bible (written) and (2 T hessalonians 2: 15) apostolic tradition (taught by mouth). John 14:15, "If you love me, you will obey what I command". So let us first Love God by loving our own church!

                          We should not be discouraged by seeing whatever unfortunate happenings
                          (conflicts) in our church or with other churches. Where ever human beings assemble, it is natural to have conflicts because of the difference in opinion. These things have been happening in our church ever since apostolic times (see an example in Acts 15: 1-2). This might happen in our own houses too (hopefully not get to the streets!). With all these conflicts and subtle fights, our church
                          has survived about 2000 years and has kept our faith unchanged. These conflicts are not an excuse for some one to leave the church or stop loving the church (and stop listening to the true teachings). (Ephesians 4: 3 "Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love"). These conflicts may happen again in future (let us pray not to happen). But as believers we should do what we are supposed to do. We can't stop loving our Lord or stop following what God taught us in truth (what our church teaches), for any reason.

                          You asked why
                          "we are not able to go to even a Pentecostals house or a Marthomites
                          house or a Roman Catholics house and participate in a simple cottage
                          prayer meeting with them? Assume that there is no church doctrine
                          mentioned but only singing and preaching an evangelistic full gospel
                          message"

                          You are partially correct here. Praying together with other members
                          is not banned by our church. This (praying together) has been done in
                          ecumenical meetings even by our bishops. But when it comes to
                          churches like Pentecostal churches, who are continuously practicing proselytism, our church do not usually encourage it. It is not because of the 'church spirit' as you think, but because of the distortion of truth they have been doing during such prayer meetings (probably to catch people to their fold). Even if you say it involves only 'singing and preaching' there, you have to realize what they are preaching first. Unlike you or a few who knows the (truth of) Gospel, most of our members do not know the truth (unfortunately) and will follow blindly what those 'preachers' say, in most cases, contradictory to the truth. Most people who preach Bible will try to interpret the Bible versus during their speech and in the Pentecostal case, it happens to be purely based on Bible and his own imagination, which is most likely against the truth. So even if it is only 'preaching' it does mostly involve 'false teaching'. Why would our members want to hear such heresies anyway? Praying together with them will not harm you but have to be careful in how you pray and also what you learn
                          there.

                          "What if we meet another individual from a Hindu background or a
                          Buddhist background. Are we going to stress that He or She must
                          belong to the Jacobite church to be saved?"

                          See what Jesus has instructed (told) his disciples: (Mark 16:15-
                          16)"He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news
                          to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but
                          whoever does not believe will be condemned". So it is the duty of our
                          church to preach to others. We shouldn't be worried about what the fate of others (non believers) will be, but should be concerned about our own fate. Let us not judge others (non believers) and leave judgment to Jesus Christ (Acts 10:42, "He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead"). We do not deserve to judge others (Matthew 7:1-2, "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in
                          the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you"). But we (our church) should definitely preach the true faith (and only truth) to others! Our church teaches the truth and so we should definitely try to spread this truth to others (non believers).

                          Regards,
                          Sinu P. John, PhD
                          Boston, USA
                          ID:0076
                        • Susan
                          Dear All, I wonder if there is a Syrian Orthodox (Jacobite)community / congregation in Copenhagen or Denmark. If so would it be possible to have contact
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 17, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dear All,

                            I wonder if there is a Syrian Orthodox (Jacobite)community / congregation in Copenhagen or Denmark. If so would it be possible to have contact details / addresses?

                            Regards,
                            Susan
                            #0878
                          • Chev. Thomas Daniel
                            Dear Susan Shlomo As per H.E Mor Mattiyas, there is a congregation of our Iraqi people. 3 months before there was a Holy Qurbono conducted from one of the
                            Message 13 of 13 , Sep 30, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dear Susan
                              Shlomo

                              As per H.E Mor Mattiyas, there is a congregation of our Iraqi people.
                              3 months before there was a Holy Qurbono conducted from one of the
                              priests from Sweden. Please try to contact the following persons for
                              more information.

                              MOR JULIUS ABDULAHAD G. SHABO,
                              Syriac Orthodox Archbishopric
                              Forvaltar V.38, S-151 47 Sodertalje,Sweden.,
                              Tel: (+46) 8/550 656 44,
                              Kyr: (+46) 8/550 8606, Fax: (+46) 8/550 868 83

                              OR

                              MOR DIOSCOROS BENYAMIN ATAS,
                              Patriarchal-Vicariate of Sweden,
                              St. Aphrem Syriac Orthodox Cathedral,
                              Klockarvagen 110, S-151 61
                              Södetälje, Sweden., Tel: (+46) 8/550 611 70
                              Kyr: (+46) 8/550 611 76,
                              Fax: (+46) 8/550 843 00,
                              Central: (+46) 8/550-84140

                              In HIS Love
                              Chevalier Thomas Daniel (Reji)
                              # 0001

                              --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote:
                              >
                              > Dear All,
                              >
                              > I wonder if there is a Syrian Orthodox (Jacobite)community /
                              congregation in Copenhagen or Denmark. If so would it be possible to
                              have contact details / addresses?
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.