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Re:Mission of the Holy Church

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  • Bibu Philip Matthew
    Shlomo By the grace of God,we have successfully defeated Portuguese Colonial Forces persecution as early as 1653 AD,we have successfully defeated the great
    Message 1 of 14 , May 3, 2008
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      Shlomo

      By the grace of God,we have successfully defeated Portuguese Colonial Forces' persecution as early as 1653 AD,we have successfully defeated the great English Empire's subversion against Holy church as early as 1876 AD.And we have successfully overcome the coup detat of false prophets within church promoted by one of the big regional Press(Malayala Manorama) of India.So far nothing has stopped the Holy Church from its functiong in India,even the great Press have failed. This is beacause 'truth will prevail' and the words of Jesus Christ entrusting Peter to be head of church will be fulfilled,it may not be in numbers,but in substance.

      The services of Holy Throne of Antioch and its delegates in India are great.There is no other church in the world like us whose prophets came empty handed to India,guided by spirit of God and preserved us on our request.Being the first community or organisation of India to resist colonial forces for right to worship,we are no small people,even Indian freedom struggle started only in 1870s(I presume). But we started our personal struggle as early as 1653, this shows our great vision and strength.

      Regarding Manorama,late Varghese Mapillai was a good man who honoured the Holy Throne of Antioch and has written,in praise of services of Holy Throne of Antioch in India. But after his death when Mammen Mapillai took control of Manorama, policy changed and supported schism in holy church. Gone are their days of media monopoly, as today there are many malayalam media to report matters in truth.

      What ever it is 'the Plan God has purposed nobody can thwart.

      Rgds,
      Bibu Philip Matthew
      0074
    • Sajy Thannikkottu
      Could anyone shed light to the relationship between SOC Patriarch & Jerusalem Patriarch as mentioned in this message Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu # 2912 ...
      Message 2 of 14 , May 5, 2008
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        Could anyone shed light to the relationship between SOC Patriarch &
        Jerusalem Patriarch as mentioned in this message

        Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu
        # 2912


        --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Paul Joshy wrote:
        >
        > Dear CJ
        >
        >
        > In fact, this kind of "selective" attack does not deserve any kind of
        > attention as they have simply negated the heroic work of Abdul
        Jaleel Bawa for concretising Malankara church with the Holy church who
        came to Malankara 200 years before Mavelikara Padiyola was written.
        Instead, now Orthodox group says that Abdul Jaleel Bawa had no
        relationship with Holy Syrian Church and he was just a patriarch of
        Jerusalem ( poor orthodox group doesn't know the relationship between
        Jerusalem patriarch and Patriarch of the Holy Syrian church)
        >
        >
        >
        > By
        > J M. Paul
        > ID 4030
        >
      • Johnson
        Shlomo, The Syriac Orthodox bishop in Jerusalem used to be honararily decorated as the 5th Patriarch (or Jerusalem Patriarch) with the name Mor Gregorious
        Message 3 of 14 , May 7, 2008
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          Shlomo,

          The Syriac Orthodox bishop in Jerusalem used to be honararily
          decorated as the 5th Patriarch (or Jerusalem Patriarch) with the
          name 'Mor Gregorious' like Mor Iganatius for the Holy Patriarch, Mor
          Baselious for the H.B Catholicose. This honour was provided by the
          church in large due to the importance and significance of Jerusalem.
          We do pray in 1'st Dypthic as 'Innum ee ayushkalathum namme meyichu
          bharikkunna nammude pathriayarkkesanmaraya Moran Mor Ignathiosinu
          vendium Aboon Mor Gregoriousinu vendiyum Aboon Mor Baseliousinu
          vendiyum ...........

          In his love
          Johnson
          #2335.

          --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Sajy Thannikkottu wrote:
          >
          > Could anyone shed light to the relationship between SOC Patriarch &
          > Jerusalem Patriarch as mentioned in this message
          >
          > Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu
          > # 2912
          >
          >
          > --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Paul Joshy wrote:
          > >
        • Paul Joshy
          Dear Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu For the basis of my arguement see the following words and related sites. It is as just opposite to what the IOC s preachings
          Message 4 of 14 , May 8, 2008
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            Dear Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu

            For the basis of my arguement see the following words and related sites. It is as just opposite to what the IOC's preachings regarding Abdul Jallel Bawa and well as Jerusalem patriarch.
            **
            *Britannica online encyclopedia *article on *Syrian Orthodox
            Patriarchate*of Antioch *......* it has been the main custodian of the Christian holy places in * Jerusalem*.

            http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9070778/Syrian-Orthodox-Patriarchate-of-Antioch - 53k

            *Wikipedia.* Abdul Jaleel was born in
            Mosul<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosul>,
            Iraq <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq>. In 1654 he was ordained
            Metropolitan bishop for the Ameed (Diyarbaker) diocese in
            Turkey<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey>by the Patriarch Mar
            Ignatius She'mun<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mar_Ignatius_She%27mun&action=edit&redlink=1>.

            In AD. 1664, he was elevated as the Metropolitan of Jerusalem with the title Mar Gregorios. Due to the significance of the city, the Metropolitan of Jerusalem is referred to as the 5th Patriarch in the Syrian Orthodox tradition . He traveled to India

            <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India> in AD
            1665 to regularize the ordination of Mar Thoma
            I<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar_Thoma_I>and to oppose the
            Portuguese <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Empire>().

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar_Gregorios_Abdul_Jaleel

            *Parurchurch/Saint*. Abdul Jaleel Mor Gregorios Bava belong to the city of Moosal. He was the Bishop of the City of Ameed (Dayarbaker) and nearby places for ten years. Thereafter, His Holiness was elevated to become the Patriarch of Jerusalem (Fifth Patriarch).()

            http://www.margregoriousyouthassociation.org/thesaint.htm

            Paul Joshy
            # 4030
          • Sajy Thannikkottu
            Thank you for this message. Does it mean Jerusalem Patriarch is a position similar to the one of H B Catholicose and similarly leads a community under HH Zakha
            Message 5 of 14 , May 8, 2008
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              Thank you for this message.

              Does it mean Jerusalem Patriarch is a position similar to the one of H
              B Catholicose and similarly leads a community under HH Zakha Iwas.

              Or, is Jerusalem Patriarch a head like any other orthodox church head?

              Please rectify

              Sajy Thannikkottu
              # 2912

              --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Johnson wrote:
              >
              > Shlomo,
              >
              > The Syriac Orthodox bishop in Jerusalem used to be honararily
              > decorated as the 5th Patriarch (or Jerusalem Patriarch) with the
              > name 'Mor Gregorious' like Mor Iganatius for the Holy Patriarch, Mor
              > Baselious for the H.B Catholicose. This honour was provided by the
              > church in large due to the importance and significance of Jerusalem.
              > We do pray in 1'st Dypthic as 'Innum ee ayushkalathum namme meyichu
              > bharikkunna nammude pathriayarkkesanmaraya Moran Mor Ignathiosinu
              > vendium Aboon Mor Gregoriousinu vendiyum Aboon Mor Baseliousinu
              > vendiyum ...........
            • Johnson
              Dear brother in Christ, I feel that either you are confused or pretends to be confused. It is evident from the church history that the title of Jerusalem
              Message 6 of 14 , May 12, 2008
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                Dear brother in Christ,

                I feel that either you are confused or pretends to be confused. It
                is evident from the church history that the title of Jerusalem
                Patriarch or 5th Patriarch is only decorative to the Syriac Orthodox
                Arch bishop of Jersuslem and as any other bishop H.E is leading a
                diocese under H.H Patriarch.

                In his love
                Johnson
                #2335

                --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Sajy Thannikkottu wrote:
                >
                > Thank you for this message.
                >
                > Does it mean Jerusalem Patriarch is a position similar to the one
                of H
                > B Catholicose and similarly leads a community under HH Zakha Iwas.
                >
              • Sajy Thannikkottu
                Dear brother Are you referring to Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and Jordan: Mor Severius Malke Mourad? Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu # 2912
                Message 7 of 14 , May 12, 2008
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                  Dear brother

                  Are you referring to Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and Jordan: Mor
                  Severius Malke Mourad?

                  Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu
                  # 2912

                  --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Johnson wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear brother in Christ,
                  >
                  > I feel that either you are confused or pretends to be confused. It
                  > is evident from the church history that the title of Jerusalem
                  > Patriarch or 5th Patriarch is only decorative to the Syriac Orthodox
                  > Arch bishop of Jersuslem and as any other bishop H.E is leading a
                  > diocese under H.H Patriarch.
                • Shinu Jesus Abraham
                  Greetings to all Let us don t blame the priests or the laymen of IOC for their lack of knowledge on history, Patriarchate or Jerusalem Patriarch. It is the
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 13, 2008
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                    Greetings to all

                    Let us don't blame the priests or the laymen of IOC for their lack
                    of knowledge on history, Patriarchate or Jerusalem Patriarch. It is
                    the result of all the manipulations of top think tanks of MOC
                    (Malankara/ Manorama / Muthoot - whatever fits can be read)
                    especially in the last 40+ years. Let us only try to help them –
                    those willing let them see with their eyes, hear with their ears and
                    understand with their hearts.

                    Those priests who believe in Priesthood may refer the scolarary
                    work "Mathopadesa Sarangal" by Mor Dionysius Geevarghese Vattasseril
                    who created IOC understands from where the apostolic succession is
                    from, before commenting "the Patriarch is not accepted by Malankara
                    Sabha". Please don't comment before understanding the manipulations
                    already made on the original work.

                    Those who don't know who was St. Peter and what he was assigned can
                    read another scholarary work in the below link. Pages 29,30 do refer
                    in detail about the Patriarch of Jerusalem too.

                    http://www.geocities.com/malankaraorthodoxfaith/ThomasAthanasius_Initial_Page.htm

                    Those who don't know the church history can have a quick reference
                    at the very famous mulamthuruthy padiola. Below is a link short and
                    sweet which was hand written by our own Kochu Thirumeni who believed
                    and practiced that SOC faith his whole life. May be a scroll through
                    the signatories may reveal some of our close relatives / forefathers
                    who did pledge on behalf of us too.

                    http://www.geocities.com/parumalathirumeni/Padiyola_Malayalam.htm

                    and

                    http://www.syrianchurch.org/MalankaraSyrianChurch/MalankaraHistory.htm

                    Those interested to know the chronological order of our hierarchs in
                    SOC may refer the below links which cannot be produced by any of the
                    20th century churches

                    http://sor.cua.edu/Patriarchate/PatriarchsChronList.html

                    and

                    http://catholicose.org/PauloseII/Catholicate.htm


                    Those still interested to learn more may find the below link equally
                    interesting and useful.

                    http://www.syrianchurch.org/Books.htm

                    May God bless us all

                    Shinu Jesus Abraham
                    Id # 2908
                  • Sajy Thannikkottu
                    Though Shinu s message wasn t addressed to me I thought to respond as it appeared under my message. My question Are you referring to Patriarchal-Vicarate of
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 16, 2008
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                      Though Shinu's message wasn't addressed to me I thought to respond as it appeared under my message. My question "Are you referring to Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and Jordan: Mor Severius Malke Mourad?" was a kind of one word question-answer.

                      I am not ashamed of accepting if I don't know. I am not interested in discussing topics such as IOC or SOC thinktanks as mentioned. I remember a similar inconclusive debate with you had sometime back. And this time I asked this question as a continuation of a message posted here.

                      Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu
                      # 2912
                    • Shinu Jesus Abraham
                      Dear Sajy To my limited knowledge Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and Jordan: Mor Severius Malke Mourad is the current successor of Mor Abdul Jaleel Bava,
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 17, 2008
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                        Dear Sajy

                        To my limited knowledge Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and
                        Jordan: Mor Severius Malke Mourad is the current successor of Mor
                        Abdul Jaleel Bava, though centuries of trials and tribulations have
                        reduced the power and size of the holy seat. Many of the
                        metropolitans and catholicose of both SOC and IOC have visited this
                        partriarchate and have conducted holy Eucharist in the very famous
                        St. Marks monastery in the last century. Hope some learned can
                        through some light on the history.

                        http://www.syrianchurch.org/Paravur/StGregorios.htm

                        and

                        http://www.saintgregorios.org/PARUMALA/pilgrimage.htm

                        Shinu Jesus Abraham
                        ID # 2908

                        --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Sajy Thannikkottu wrote:
                        >
                        > Though Shinu's message wasn't addressed to me I thought to respond
                        as it appeared under my message. My question "Are you referring to
                        Patriarchal-Vicarate of Jerusalem and Jordan: Mor Severius Malke
                        Mourad?" was a kind of one word question-answer.
                        >
                      • Sajy Thannikkottu
                        Dear brothers Seeing the tone of of some messages I thought those who posted them could be well studied. I hope someone in the forum could help me to know more
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 19, 2008
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                          Dear brothers

                          Seeing the tone of of some messages I thought those who posted them
                          could be well studied. I hope someone in the forum could help me to
                          know more about the current Jerussalem Patriarch. I haven't seen
                          anything introducing Mor Severius Malke Mourad as Mor Gregorious in
                          SOC websites. As refering in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOCM-FORUM/message/12415 we remember Mor Gregorious not Mor Severius

                          Ps: Most of us fight only because we have seen some others in that
                          fight. We've taken a side only because others have taken a side. For a
                          Typical Malayali, it is not necessary to know the reason before
                          entering a warfield.

                          regards

                          Sajy Thannikkottu, Kathmandu
                          # 2912
                        • Sunny M. Jacob
                          Dear All, I find a transition for the subject text on comparing 2 Holy Qurbana Kramam, ie. 1. H Qubana kramam (MSOT Seminary 2003 edition) which gives ....
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 21, 2008
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                            Dear All,
                            I find a transition for the subject text on comparing 2 Holy Qurbana
                            Kramam, ie.
                            1. H Qubana kramam (MSOT Seminary 2003 edition) which gives "....
                            nammude Pathriyarkkisaya Moran Mor Ignathiouse Zakka Pradhamanu
                            vendiyum sreshta Katholikka Aboon Mor Baseliouse Thomas Pradhamanu
                            vendiyum nammude melpattakkaran..... nu vendiyum..."

                            2. Aradhana Sahayi, onnaam bhagam, kollavarsham 1122)- "nammude
                            Pathriyarkkisaya Aboon Mar Ignathiousinu vendiyum, nammude
                            melpattakkaran Mor--- nu vendiyum"

                            Can any one explain the tansition.

                            Kindly shower light to the 1'st Dypthic that is read and prayed in
                            Our Holy Church under the Holy See of Antioch, that
                            states "....nammude Pathriyarkkisaya...." and not "....nammude
                            pathriayarkkesanmaraya...."

                            My brother in Christ Mr.Johnson, could you please define plurality
                            of Holy Patriarch from what you have mentioned.

                            Sunny
                            ID #3320
                            --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Johnson wrote:
                            >
                            > Shlomo,
                            >
                            > The Syriac Orthodox bishop in Jerusalem used to be honararily
                            > decorated as the 5th Patriarch (or Jerusalem Patriarch) with the
                            > name 'Mor Gregorious' like Mor Iganatius for the Holy Patriarch,
                            Mor
                            > Baselious for the H.B Catholicose. This honour was provided by the
                            > church in large due to the importance and significance of
                            Jerusalem.
                            > We do pray in 1'st Dypthic as 'Innum ee ayushkalathum namme meyichu
                            > bharikkunna nammude pathriayarkkesanmaraya Moran Mor Ignathiosinu
                            > vendium Aboon Mor Gregoriousinu vendiyum Aboon Mor Baseliousinu
                            > vendiyum ...........
                            >
                            > In his love
                            > Johnson
                            > #2335.
                            >
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