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No body may be able to explain the logic of IOC

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  • Sabu Alias
    Shinu Jesus Abraham is enquiring about the logic behind the Creation of IOC and their arguments like National Church. Dear brother Shinu , I think no body
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 27, 2008
      Shinu Jesus Abraham is enquiring about the logic behind the Creation of IOC and their arguments like National Church. Dear brother Shinu , I think no body will be able to explain the logic of IOC. Recently in Ernakulam and Kottayam districts there were huge display boards of their Vattsseril Thirumeni. The caption was " Videsadipathyathil Ninnu Sabhaye Rakshiccha Malankara Sabha Basurante 72nd (73?)Orma Perunnal". (the 72nd rememberence day of Malankara Sabha Basuran who saved the church from foreign rule) I am not able to digest the idea of 'foreign rule' in Religion. What they meant by foreign rule? . If they are mentioning about Pathriarchese, I pray for their common Sense to God. In that logic St. Thomas is also foreigner. What to say Jesus on earth is a foreigner to an Indian (by IOC logic).

      By creating boundaries to Church they are creating an Indian Jesus ;thereby questioning God himself. IOC people think themselves above God . That is why they have no hesitation or penance about closing the churches .(logic used is :If Church is the abode of God then the person who is able to close a church should be above God !!!)

      Bringing the St. Thomas Throne and fighting with the Pathriarchese about the same; they are not only ridiculing Bible (Let God forgive them) but also allow us to derive the logic that The Apostles of our Lord were simple hiuman being who were fighting each other. {logic used. Catholicose is on the Holy throne of St. Thomas(as per IOC) ie Equivalent to St. Thomas. Similarly Pathriarchese is St. Peter. Then fighting the Pathriarchese means, St. Thomas Fight with St. Peter. Also St. Thomas is claiming that he is equal with St. Peter!!!! }

      Thus the IOC logic is simply fantastic and no sensible person can digest them. So you may expect more logic and wonders. One of thier Thirmeni is trying to edit the Bible itself by claiming that St. Matt. 16:18-20 is wrong.(And I say to thee, thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church .....). So forget about the notion of National Church.It is One of the IOCian wonder. By using the church for charging abusive words on the prayers of our Catholicose at Thrikkunnath Seminary they are trying to create another wonder ie A CHRISTIAN CHURCH WITHOUT CHRIST.

      With prayer
      Sabu P Alias,
      St. Mary's Jacobite Church
      # 3323
    • Alex John
      Dear friends, But the great Almayavedi magazine used to claim Aagola malankara sabha (Universal Malankara Church).... Alex St:Peters & St Pauls JSO church
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 28, 2008
        Dear friends,

        But the "great" Almayavedi magazine used to claim "Aagola malankara sabha" (Universal Malankara Church)....

        St:Peters & St Pauls JSO church Bangalore
        # 2321
      • Shinu Jesus Abraham
        Greetings to all Thanks to Mr. Sabu Alias for the response. To tell the truth I am least bothered about any beliefs IOC derive to establish their positions but
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 1, 2008
          Greetings to all

          Thanks to Mr. Sabu Alias for the response. To tell the truth I am
          least bothered about any beliefs IOC derive to establish their
          positions but only very upset for trying to impose their flawed
          theologies and beliefs on SOC. They just can't even say why
          vattasseril thirumeni went all the way to Patriarchate to get
          ordained as a metropolitan by Patriarch Mar Abdallah, who didn't
          allow anybody further to put their hand on him. A series of lies and
          false teachings started which has spread over the last one century
          by which they ridicule all those who lived before including our
          beloved Parumala thirumeni.

          Let us analyze what happened in Kallungathra church:

          1. Nobody is contesting the fact there are two churches one
          with SOC and another one with IOC.
          2. Nobody is contesting the fact that there is an agreement
          26years old between the parishioners for the use of common cemetery
          for both parishes.
          3. Nobody is contesting that there are 2 gates for the
          cemetery – one big with a gate and another small which is ALWAYS
          4. Now an Achen is leading some of the IOC people to the
          cemetery in the great lent, finding the main gate locked for
          whatever reason is getting agitated, breaks the gate and create a
          drama, alone gets admitted in a private hospital, police case… and
          further gets sanctified all the actions by all the higher
          authorities by conducting a public meeting. Very commendable
          performance indeed for leading the right way..

          One month back we did see similar drama in Thrikkunnathu Seminary
          too. Less than 170 people of IOC including all the synod members who
          claim our church and property trying their best to stop all the
          faithful in thousands, who walked to the sacred tombs on the Dukrono
          of their beloved Valiya thirumeni. Why? – they want to make that
          church to another Parumala. They know clearly why Parumala is still
          bigger than Devalogam or Pazhaya Seminary. They clearly know how
          much high regards and reverence we SOC have for the Kochu
          Thirumeni and Valiya Thirumeni.

          My personal prayer to IOC is only "Please leave us alone". Please
          don't try to preach that you are only right, with all your money
          power or muscle power. Stop the greed to our churches and
          properties. Leave us to continue the faith our forefathers believed
          and we believe. I personally have very high regards for many priests
          and metropolitans of IOC, which I believe many of my brothers and
          sisters in SOC too do have. That doesn't should get changed by all
          the above unchristian acts, because our faith and tradition we carry
          are much dearer than what you can imagine. Let's live side by side
          as brothers and sisters as true Christians showing the world the
          true Christ from our actions and from our life. So long as this
          cannot be achieved our Prayers are in vain and our Lents are in vain.

          May God bless us all.

          Shinu Jesus Abraham
          Member ID # 2908
        • Varugese C J
          Dear All, In the context of the Kallunkathara Church episode, let me share with all of you meeting a Managing Committee Member of IOC during my short visit to
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 3, 2008
            Dear All,

            In the context of the Kallunkathara Church episode, let me share with all of you meeting a Managing Committee Member of IOC during my short visit to Kerala. I know this member since my childhood; though we are not blood related; it is rather stronger than that between us two families. Since we know each other, where we stand, and what our views on each other's faith, whenever we get a chance to meet, both of us extend our heart-felt love and affection between us. Rather I feel, I am closer than any IOC-ians to him. We never interefered in our faith matters, never tried to influence each other. But the bond between us is getting stronger and stronger.

            Our church is surrounded by scores of IOC churches. It is an established fact that either they or us can create any problem in any of these churches. There are families of Jacobites and vice-versa in all these churches, though in minority. Never ever had a problem of trying to take control of any of these churches. We, Jacobites still feel and are proud to live there, surrounded by IOC-ians are better and stronger in our faith. During festivals or feast days, people even cross over to share their happiness with the other church members. During a procession, both find time to pray in Kurisumthotty of the other churches, and nobody objected so far.

            I asked this honourable members that if we can survive and live peacefully for years in our areas, why can't we as a whole in Malankara to live and let live. He mentioned that it is well and good to live like that, but the people in higher positions, the cacuses around them will not allow this to happen. He was telling he was having high hope of their Catholicos elect, but simply loosing his confidence. Their Church Secretary find most beats not from any other, but from their Catholicose elect, and a caucus around him. He even went to that extent that majority in IOC do not have anything
            against the HH Patriarch. Being the spiritual head of this Church, they revere HH very much, but to hide their respect to HH to get closer to the higher echelons. He was telling that it is well and good to be one Church; but there is nothing wrong even if stand apart as two distinct churches, having close communion relationship. He was having the opinion that now it will be very difficult to be united, but it would be easy to stand as it is now - in judicial terms keeping the status-quo. But this will not happen,
            due to whole lot of reasons, which is known to all. Only GOD can help us to come out of this truma.

            During our discussion, the mention of late Malankara Varghse came in. He was showing pity on the happenings there. Then I asked him whether he is aware of late Binu's case, and the pathetic end he met with. I had to explain him about the incident. This is the real situation. The one-sided feeding of misinformations made people in both side drage simple things to a highly explosive nature; and the real culprits are the people who report the matter in a twisted manner, which fit into their ultimate aim to making people hate
            the other side. This is really a very wrong tendency. The Manorama played a villains role in making the IOC-ians to stand apart from the main-stream of the Universal Church. Vattasseril Thirumeni have been wrongly placed by them; and hence the split got widened day by day. His successors add succor to this development, and thus the drift got widened. The numerous other splits in Malankara Church all ended with separation of people apart within decades, but the current one goes on to centuries, showing any sign of ending this unwanted lose of souls, money and our self-esteem.

            The other important thing we both agreed, was the opportunists to cross across. They are the most dangerous ones in this drama. Their only aim is to get maximum benefits out of their criss-crossing. He posed a questions to me: You know people who crossed very rencently; and their announcements, their comments, and compare it with others. I was shocked. Yes, he is right. Such people only made the process of unity or separation more vulnerable and difficult.

            Majority of the faithfuls in both JSC & IOC do not care about any of such a move - either unity or separation. Both our leaders have to realize this fact. The northern dioceses are all set to boil beyond any of our imaginations. It is high time we should realize the evil intention of this people.

            This mail is not meant to hate the other, but to love the other. Hope the lentern prayers will enable us to do so.

            With prayers,
            CJ Varughese
            Mem ID 1012
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