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Use Brains, Avoid “Pathriarkese”

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  • Alex Thomas
    Dear All, Though I want to keep away from posting messages in SOCM-FORUM, about this issue I feel that I should initiate a debate and request responses from
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 21, 2008
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      Dear All,

      Though I want to keep away from posting messages in SOCM-FORUM, about this issue I feel that I should initiate a debate and request responses from fellow forum members. The use of the heading is deliberate, that most readers will want to know why there is a message “Avoid Pathriarkese” in SOCM_FORUM. The subject is not about avoiding our beloved HH Patriarch but about avoiding the usage “PATHRIARKESE FACTION” while we represent our Holy Church. It is a very sad thing that we ourselves are promoting a plot of the Devalokam think tanks.

      We should understand that most people either the malankara church members, sister church members or other people doesn’t have a deep knowledge about the split in the malankara church. They don’t know what the malankara church was when we fought against the Protestants; they don’t know how much the HH Patriarch of Antioch was acceptable for the united Malankara church etc. They will never try to have an understanding about how the post 1911 methran faction is twisting the truth about the true faith & history of the malankara church.

      We live in the present and those people who don’t have high interest in the church disputes will try to interpret things from the present day news and happenings only. Here we should understand the danger in promoting the usage “Patriarkese faction”. We are all proud about being part of the great Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and in the disputed Malankara church it is the easiest way to name our supporters. But we should understand the following problems hidden in that usage and how the IOC leadership is using that for their advantage.

      1)There is no official church in Malankara or in any part of the world with the name “Patriarkese” If the official name of our church is Syrian Orthodox we should use that name while we represent our selves in all the places. The Indian Orthodox people are purposefully using “Pathriarkese Vibagam” when they say something about our church. The aim is to demote our Church. We are supporting their plans by following that usage but when we address about them we use “Orthodox Sabha”. Here is the danger. Here we indirectly promote the claim of the IOC that they are the Official Church and we are only a dissident faction. Those people who don’t know much about the church issues in malankara will also have that feeling. Even the media personnel now days start reporting like the Orthodox Church and the “Patriarkese faction” within that church. Realise the danger……… the use of the word “Patriarkese faction” is a double edged sword……. When used within our church or our people it will have an effect in boosting our people’s spirit, but when used outside we are forced to admit to others that we are a faction and not a true church as aired by the IOC.

      2) The aim of IOC is also to demoralize our church as a faction. They will deliberately use the word “Patriarkeesukar” about us in what ever platforms they get whether it is a press conference, media debate, or a meeting of their own. An outsider especially the younger people now days have the feel that IOC is the Official Church and we are a faction. This feel the IOC achieved to promote is mainly because our faults in not representing or naming our church correctly. I am very sad when I hear even our HB Catholicose use the words “Pathriarkese faction” when he refer to our church in media or meetings. When the regional head himself refers us as a faction even though we are part of the great Syrian Orthodox Church, what will be the status of our church before sister church members and fellow communities? (If anyone disagrees with me regarding this usage by our church leaders please go through the press conference of the Holy Synod secretary Joseph Mar Gregoriose at Kottayam regarding the Kallumkathara pally incidents. Throughout that meeting he was using “Pathriarkeesukar/ Pathriarkese Vibhagam” to represent our Church. What a sad thing, the Holy Synod secretary and the present day face of the church, himself refer about the church as a faction……)

      3)Even though the IOC tries to hide, everybody who tries to learn about the Malankara Church history knows that the name of the united church in the pre split era was the Malankara Jacobite Syrian church. When the dispute started in 1911 after the excommunication of vattasseril divannasiose the two factions came to known as Bava kakshi and methran kakshi within the Malankara Jacobite Syrian Church under the Supreme leadership of HH Patriarch of Antioch. Later, during the 1930s only, the methran kakshi started using the name orthodox. Then also they were not using Indian Orthodox or Malankara Orthodox but the usage was like Malankara Syrian Orthodox which later changed to Malankara Orthodox Syrian . One can easily guess how they framed that name”Orthodox Syrian” when they separated from the Mother Church “Syrian Orthodox” ( remember when Mr. M.V. Raghavan, once a strong leader of the Communist Party Marxist(CPM) was expelled from CPM, the name of the new party formed by him was Communist Marxist Party(CMP)!!!!) It is only recently that the IOC started using the names like the Indian Orthodox or Malankara Orthodox to represent their church. It is for the sake of having an image like the well known churches in the world like Greek Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox, Russian Orthodox etc. With renaming their church like Malankara Orthodox they now demand the status of an Oriental Orthodox church along with Coptic, Syrian and Armenian Orthodox Churches. But even with a unity in beliefs, the latter three churches have their own customs, practice and order of prayers which make them the respective ‘oriental’ orthodox churches. But no body knows what “Malankara Oriental” element makes the IOC under the catholicose in devalokam, a separate Oriental Orthodox Church other than the SOC. The IOC doesn’t have any creed of their own but what they are using is accepted from the SOC. (If nationality and geographical area is the only factor to be known as an Oriental Orthodox, members of IOC who are residing in US and are US citizens should be known as American Orthodox instead of IOC.)

      So my appeal to our church leaders both spiritual and lay is use your brains also, in your struggle to protect the true faith. It is not the majority’s support which led the IOC to their present day advantages but it is a matter of brain game. Think about how IOC renamed their faction from time to time- from “methran kakshi” to “Indian Orthodox Church” and use it for their own advantage. They (IOC) had to find out a name in the post 1911 periods but we have an identity from the very ancient periods. But where are we now? Where we reached now from Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church in 1911? – “Pathriarkeese faction”. So please stop using that Identity. We are not a faction. We are a Church. Does any one refer to Roman Catholic as “POPE FACTION” as Pope is their supreme head? Don’t tarnish the image of our church and promote the game plan of the IOC by using a faction to refer to our own church. One may argue that we are using Jacobite church in Church letterheads or other communications and we are known as the Jacobites. But the usage or identity I refer to throughout this message is the one used by our leaders in media conferences and press releases. The medias supporting IOC is promoting such usage. The good example is the Kottayam edition Manorama news about the latest Kallumkathara pally incidents.

      So our leaders should unite over this issue and start using the official name or at least Jacobite when we refer to our own church. The sadder thing is that most people whether younger or elder don’t know the official name of our church. When I met a person who was the then managing committee member of one of the well known Jacobite churches in Kottayam, he asked me- “to which church (sabha) you belong?” I said Syrian Orthodox…. The reply was immediate “oh you are methran kakshi.” This is the result of our leaders using “Pathriarkese faction” instead of the real identity. The Saddest thing is that due to these types of activities from our leaders when common people in Kerala hear the words orthodox whether Malankara, Syrian or Indian they will relate it with Orthodox Church with headquarters in devalokam. So at this point of time even if we start promoting the name Syrian Orthodox the fruits will go to the IOC…. The fault of our leaders in not promoting or using the
      correct name of the church is leading the great “Syrian Orthodox Church” to a mere “Pathriarkese faction.” What comes to my mind about this is an African Proverb “A fool’s tongue is sharp enough to cut his own throat.” So dear fellow church members don’t be fools who destroy our identity with our own tongue, please try to use the correct name of our church at least from now onwards…

      I request the comments and opinions of fellow forum members on this issue. Please also forward any comments that you find about this message in any other forums.

      Regards,

      Alex Thomas
      # 971
      St Joseph’s Cathedral, Kottayam.
    • Johnson Mannathoor
      Shlomo to Mr.Alex and All, Whatever said by Mr. Alex is true and we should stop using the factional term knowingly or unknowingly at all levels because we are
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 25, 2008
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        Shlomo to Mr.Alex and All,

        Whatever said by Mr. Alex is true and we should stop using the factional term knowingly or unknowingly at all levels because we are the members of the mother church.

        In his love
        Johnson
        #2335
      • Bibu Philip Matthew
        Dear All In my opinion we should never say Pathriarkese ,we should never use word faction/kashi either.Because we belong to mother of all church Syriac
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 26, 2008
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          Dear All

          In my opinion we should never say Pathriarkese ,we should never use word 'faction/kashi ' either.Because we belong to mother of all church' Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch'.In fact all other church can be even called a faction.

          The term 'Bava kashi' or Pathriarkese”faction were used initially by lawyers (who made a lot of money) to distinguish people and media like Manorama and many of our innocent people also used the same term.And the term church was replaced by faction,as if its is a political party.Its true that IOC is more or less a political party that can be called methran kashi.

          When people ask me which church i say " Syriac Orthodox church of Antioch ' then some ask which faction,then I say I dont belong to any faction I belong to the original church under Holy Apostolic Throne of Antioch and All the East'.

          Manorama who used Methran kashi later changed usage to Catholicose Paksham," this faction,kashi,Paksham" all, we should avoid,and its a mistake even our bishops saying that.They should say Syriac Orthodox church of Antioch or Jacobite Syrian Church, always.Our bishops should educate the media except manorama and our people about it.

          Another thing is Jacobites and SOCM Forum/moderators should not use HH before name of methran kashi catholicose,HH is only for Moran(Patriarch of Antioch and All the East) of Syriac Orthodox church and not for any faction,Socm forum should avoid such usage before methran kashi catholicose,as it is a self made title by a faction.

          Rgds,
          Bibu Philip Matthew
          Vayaliparambil Pynadath
          # 0074
        • Lijo Mathew
          Dear All, I support your suggestion. We must use Jacobite Syrian Church (yakkobayakkaran) instead of Pathriarkese faction. Lijo Mathew, 3090
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 27, 2008
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            Dear All,

            I support your suggestion. We must use Jacobite Syrian Church (yakkobayakkaran) instead of Pathriarkese faction.

            Lijo Mathew,
            3090
          • Vinup Pathrose
            Dear All We should use aleast officially parthiakeese vibhagam.. We Must Use our church name as Jacobite Syrian Orthodox church . That is right way and should
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 29, 2008
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              Dear All

              We should use aleast officially parthiakeese vibhagam.. We Must Use
              our church name as "Jacobite Syrian Orthodox church". That is right
              way and should not use only Jacobite chruch. We should use Jacobite
              syrian orthodox chruch.

              Vinup Pathrose

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            • Anoop Paul
              Dear All I do agree with the topic.I think it as a mistake to allow from our part to be called ourselves anything other than SYRIAN ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS .If
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 3, 2008
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                Dear All

                I do agree with the topic.I think it as a mistake to allow from our
                part to be called ourselves anything other than "SYRIAN ORTHODOX
                CHRISTIANS".If we(SYRIAN ORTHODOX) had not waived our(only our) right
                to use be called as ORTHODOX,i think that we could atleast avoid the false prophecy that there are two "KAKSHI" in malankara. How could they argue that there are two similar "SABHA"in malankara??There is no split up in SYRIAN ORTHODOX ....if somebody want to get seperated,they should be.But how they dare to use ORTHODOX among their identity... Why Should the members in methran kakshi have their identity as SYRIAN ORTHODOX in their identity proofs....now also they are not get separated themselves, and desperately need this identity to make a hold in all LITIGATIONS in courts.How long could anyone convey wrong signals and make others blind????

                Regards,
                Anoop Paul
                # 4021

                --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Alex Thomas wrote:
                >
                > Dear All,
                >
                > Though I want to keep away from posting messages in SOCM-FORUM,
                about this issue I feel that I should initiate a debate and request
                responses from fellow forum members. The use of the heading is
                deliberate, that most readers will want to know why there is a message
                �Avoid Pathriarkese� in SOCM_FORUM. The subject is not about avoiding
                our beloved HH Patriarch but about avoiding the usage �PATHRIARKESE
                FACTION� while we represent our Holy Church. It is a very sad thing
                that we ourselves are promoting a plot of the Devalokam think tanks.
                >
              • Jithu Jacob
                I am also suggesting we can use Jacobite Syrian Orthodox church . Jithu Jacob Regds, Jithu Jacob # 4008
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 3, 2008
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                  I am also suggesting we can use "Jacobite Syrian Orthodox church".

                  Jithu Jacob
                  Regds,
                  Jithu Jacob
                  # 4008
                • Paulson Paul.V.
                  Totally agree with Alex. The no.of obstacles we are facing day by day from the Methran Faction is a result of simple but sensitive matters we ve ignored in
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 3, 2008
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                    Totally agree with Alex. The no.of obstacles we are facing day by
                    day from the "Methran Faction" is a result of simple but sensitive
                    matters we've ignored in the past, similar in this case. Many a
                    times, we've dug our own grave, which our Church leaders should give
                    it a thought. It would be great if this matter is taken to all our
                    Church leaders and unanimously agree to call it as JSO Church, and
                    not at all "Pathriarkese faction".

                    God Bless

                    In Peace,
                    Paul
                    # 1047

                    --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Alex Thomas wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear All,
                    >
                    > Though I want to keep away from posting messages in SOCM-FORUM,
                    about this issue I feel that I should initiate a debate and request
                    responses from fellow forum members. The use of the heading is
                    deliberate, that most readers will want to know why there is a
                    message "Avoid Pathriarkese" in SOCM_FORUM. The subject is not about
                    avoiding our beloved HH Patriarch but about avoiding the
                    usage "PATHRIARKESE FACTION" while we represent our Holy Church. It
                    is a very sad thing that we ourselves are promoting a plot of the
                    Devalokam think tanks.
                    >
                  • Vinup Vendrapill
                    We are Syrian Orthodox and we have right to be called as Jacobite syrian orthodox chruch. They (IOC)should not use the word Orhtodox itself. How can they
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 4, 2008
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                      We are Syrian Orthodox and we have right to be called as Jacobite
                      syrian orthodox chruch. They (IOC)should not use the word Orhtodox itself. How can they become an orthodox. IOC have only an history of 100 years from life time of vattesseril Methrachan. WHat is meaning of Orthodox. And new Sabha with new policies and faith ..how they can be an Orthodox.

                      So what we have do we have use the name Jacobite Syrian Orthodox
                      chruch in every where. and we should not address IOC as orhtodox
                      churhc. They are only a faction with in our chruch or they are a
                      seprate church with diffrent faith like Malakara reethu and Mathoma
                      chruch.

                      With regards
                      Vinup Vendrapill
                      Muscat.

                      --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Alex Thomas wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear All,
                      >
                      > Though I want to keep away from posting messages in SOCM-FORUM,
                      about this issue I feel that I should initiate a debate and request
                      responses from fellow forum members. The use of the heading is
                      deliberate, that most readers will want to know why there is a
                      message "Avoid Pathriarkese" in SOCM_FORUM. The subject is not about
                      avoiding our beloved HH Patriarch but about avoiding the
                      usage "PATHRIARKESE FACTION" while we represent our Holy Church. It
                      is a very sad thing that we ourselves are promoting a plot of the
                      Devalokam think tanks.

                      ========================
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