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Re: Veneration of a Statue in Indian Orthodox Church.

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  • DOOLEY1112@aol.com
    I would like to see that picture Aji....it is time to back your rumors with some evidence... ... From the Desk Of Moderator Dear Mr. Dooley It is not a rumor.
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 9, 2002
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      I would like to see that picture Aji....it is time to back your
      rumors with some evidence...

      ----------------------------------------------------------
      From the Desk Of Moderator

      Dear Mr. Dooley

      It is not a rumor. The news and picture was published in the
      Malayla Manorama news paper (05 September, 2002) and Mr. Aji already
      forwarded it to us. If you wants copy please write to
      moderator_sosm@...
    • V Thomas
      Dear ALL, Recently I have gone through the Indian Orthodox forum where one Mr.Thomas P.A Has compared the jacobites to Muslim militants of Kashmir. (He also
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 9, 2002
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        Dear ALL,
        Recently I have gone through the Indian Orthodox forum where one
        Mr.Thomas P.A Has compared the jacobites to Muslim militants of Kashmir.
        (He also writes in our forum frequently asking innocent questions to
        confuse our readers)He goes on to say jehadis in kasmir coming from
        Pakistan has sent Hindu pundits from Kashmir and occupied their land.
        Jacobite Jehadis also came and occupied Kerala churches like that.
        As per him the Kerala church history is like:

        MM, their children, their slaves and priests inherited the God sown
        country. Every inch of landand all churches belonged to them. The capital
        of the state was Devalokam at Kottayam.There was peace and prosperity
        in the land. No court cases nor quarrels.
        Ennum Onam was there.
        Honey and milk flowed in the rivers. The Asuras from Antioch got jealous
        and send Jehadis (jacobites) from their country. They have come and
        occupied the Manarcad church, Karingachira church etc and driven out
        poor orthodox Christians.

        Now these militants occupy the poor churches. The Devalokam
        leadership is fighting a crusade to save these poor churches and its
        properties under the leadership of Mathews II.

        They deserve every body’s sympathy

        Welldone!!

        Dear Sir, You have beaten RSS and VHP in misinterpreting history!
        Regards
        vmt
      • MalankaraVoice
        1. The Church protests against Methran faction s brutal attack on the Majanikkara Dayaro
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 10, 2002
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          1. The Church protests against Methran faction's brutal attack
          on the Majanikkara Dayaro
          http://www.geocities.com/malankarav3/Majanikkara_Dayaro_attacked_2.htm

          2. GRAND RECEPTION FOR BAWA THIRUMENI AT SHARJAH ON SEP 15TH
          http://www.geocities.com/malankarav3/Sharjah.htm

          To read more click below
          http://www.malankaravoice.cjb.net
          http://www.geocities.com/malankarav3/news_section_1.htm
        • George Kuruvilla
          Hello Everybody, I m George Kuruvilla from Kottayam, a member of St. Thomas Church Pakkil .I m very thankful for accepting me as a member of the group. Keep
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 11, 2002
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            Hello Everybody,

            I'm George Kuruvilla from Kottayam, a member of St. Thomas Church
            Pakkil .I'm very thankful for accepting me as a member of the
            group.
            Keep in touch. Continue the good work.
            With prayers,
            George Kuruvilla
          • SOCM
            Knanaya Church draws up innovative education scheme KOTTAYAM: The Knanaya Education & Career Guidance Centre has drawn up plans for providing higher education
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 11, 2002
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              Knanaya Church draws up innovative education scheme
              KOTTAYAM: The Knanaya Education & Career Guidance Centre has drawn up
              plans for providing higher education with the slogan, �one graduate
              in every family and employment for every graduate".

              Abraham Mar Clemis, supreme head of the Knanaya Jacobite Church and
              the longest serving metropolitan in the country, is the architect of the
              innovative programme.

              The centre will compile data about high school, higher secondary and degree
              level students and record their tastes with regard to professional education
              and jobs. Orientation classes and career awareness programmes will be
              conducted and career guidance libraries will be set up, said Chirayil
              Kuraikose Cor Episcopa, Fr Joseph Abraham and Fr Mathew Kallolikkal and
              others.
              www.newindpress.com
              12th September 2002
              http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?
              ID==IER20020911153001&Title==Kerala&rLink==0
            • SOCM
              CM ready to mediate in Church dispute PTI [ WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2002 10:49:45 PM ] THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: Chief Minister A K Antony on Wednesday said he was
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 11, 2002
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                CM ready to mediate in Church dispute
                PTI [ WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2002 10:49:45 PM ]
                THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: Chief Minister A K Antony on Wednesday said he was
                willing to mediate to settle the dispute between the Orthodox and Jacobite
                factions of the Malankara church, if both sides were willing.

                Reiterating that government was not a party to the dispute nor was it bound
                to execute any court order, Antony said he was not averse to mediatory
                efforts if both sides agreed to his non-political mediation.

                Regretting the violent turn the dispute had taken in some parts of the
                state, he said "it is painful to see the followers of Christ battling it
                out on the streets."

                "My renewed pleas is that both sides should come forward to settle the
                dispute in a democratic or legal manner."

                The government could not be blamed for the problems in the church as there
                was no direction from the court to carry out any order, he said.

                The central and soutern parts of the state had recently witnessed clashes
                between the two church factions.

                http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_Id=!895383
              • Mathew B
                Dear Members, Lets continue to uphold our church in our prayers during these trials and tribulations. Let us continue to use this forum to learn more about our
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 11, 2002
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                  Dear Members,

                  Lets continue to uphold our church in our prayers
                  during these trials and tribulations.

                  Let us continue to use this forum to learn more about
                  our Church, its rich traditions, and its TRUE faith. I
                  learned a lot about the role of St. Mary, from the
                  recent discussions during the lent period. I've
                  compiled a few points from various resources as to why
                  'WE PRAY FOR THE FAITHFUL DEPARTED.' Please do write
                  back with more points/inputs regarding the topic.

                  1. Its base can be traced to the faith of the
                  Israelites. The fact that the Israelites used to pray
                  for and offer sacrifices for their dead is mentioned
                  in the second book of Maccabees. "....and they turned
                  to supplication, praying that the sin that had been
                  committed might be wholly blotted out" (2 Mac.12:
                  39-45). This is a clear pointer to the faith of the
                  Jews, to the fact that the sins of the dead can be
                  blotted out through prayers and supplications. In the
                  0ld Testament period, prayers for the departed were a
                  common practice (Dt. 34: 8).

                  2. Ruth 2:20 "..Blesses is the Lord, because he has
                  not caused his kindness to cease from the living nor
                  from the DEAD." - God is merciful towards the dead
                  also.

                  3. In Matthew's Gospel we read, "Anyone who speaks a
                  word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him;
                  but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will
                  not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age
                  to come." (Matthew 12:32) This means that sins can be
                  forgiven in the age to come - after death.

                  4. 1 Cor. 15:29 - The living received baptism for the
                  DEAD.

                  5. 2 Cor. 5:9 "This is why we are confident, and
                  anxious to be absent from the body, and to be present
                  with our Lord. Wherefore we endeavor, that whether
                  present or absent, we may be pleasing to him." One can
                  be acceptable to God even after death.

                  6. 1 Peter 4:6 "For, for this cause the Gospel was
                  preached also to those who are DEAD, that they might
                  be judged according to men in the flesh, and live
                  according to God in spirit."

                  7. It is most appropriate to pray for God's mercy for
                  our beloved, as indeed St. Paul did in the case of his
                  friend Onesiphorus, who had apparently died while
                  serving Paul in Rome: "may the Lord grant him to find
                  mercy from the Lord ON THAT DAY" (2 Timothy 1:16-18).
                  "That day" is a reference to the day when Onesiphorus
                  stands before Christ to give account for his service
                  to God and mankind. So we can always pray for the
                  departed and ask our Lord to grant them mercy on the
                  day of judgment.
                  **(Compiled from various sources)**

                  Mathew Aramath
                  Member of St. Ignatious Malankara Syrian Orthodox
                  Church - Dallas, Texas
                  Currently a Student at UT Southwestern Medical Center,
                  Dallas
                  Home town: puthencruz, Kerala
                • SOCM
                  Malankara Church case in the division bench of the Kerala High Court, headed by Chief Justice B.N. Sreekrishna and Justice C N Ramachandran Nair, argument will
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 12, 2002
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                    Malankara Church case in the division bench of the Kerala High Court,
                    headed by Chief Justice B.N. Sreekrishna and Justice C N Ramachandran
                    Nair, argument will come up for further hearing on September 19.

                    Today senior advocate of the Indian Supreme court C.S Vidyanadan
                    completed the argument for the Jacobites and Advocate K.N Butt
                    started arguments for Indian Orthodox. Once again advocate general of
                    Kerala M. Rathan Sing submitted the court that the state government
                    would remain neutral in the ongoing dispute and the prime concern of
                    the government is keep law and order in the state and since the
                    matter has been seized of by the court, the Government would enforce
                    any order that might be passed by the court.
                  • Malankara Voice
                    1. We will mediate if both parties agree - Chief Minister / Jacobites Syrian Church welcomed the peace initiative
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 12, 2002
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                      1. "We will mediate if both parties agree" - Chief Minister /
                      Jacobites Syrian Church welcomed the peace initiative
                      http://www.geocities.com/malankarav3/Manngalam_12_Sep_02.htm

                      2. Government tells High Court it won’t be partisan --- High Court
                      postponed the hearing of Church case to 19th
                      http://www.geocities.com/malankarav3/Ind_Express_12_Sep_02.htm

                      3."Mar Mathews II has no right to criticize the Jacobite Christians"
                      {Source:- Mangalam daily}
                      http://www.geocities.com/malankarav3/Mangalam_11_sep_02.htm

                      To read more click below
                      http://www.malankaravoice.cjb.net
                      http://www.geocities.com/malankarav3/news_section_1.htm
                    • Thomas P
                      Dear All, I never used the word Jihaadi in my original article. I was asking the question, how majority opinion in Kashmir became that of those who
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 12, 2002
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                        Dear All, I never used the word "Jihaadi" in my original article.
                        I was asking the question, how majority opinion in Kashmir became
                        that of those who infiltrated to kashmir? Today they claim
                        independence based on majority opinion in Kashmir.
                        Thomas
                      • Anil A
                        Hello Everybody, I m Anil Abraham Kuriakose,belongs to Manarcad St:Mary s Church. I am presently working with Hewlett-Packard Bangalore as an Engineer. Best
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 12, 2002
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                          Hello Everybody,
                          I'm Anil Abraham Kuriakose,belongs to Manarcad St:Mary's Church.
                          I am presently working with Hewlett-Packard Bangalore as an Engineer.
                          Best Regards,
                          Anil Abraham.
                        • Sajeev Abraham
                          Hello Everybody, My name is Sajeev Kavumkal. I am a member of St. Thomas Syrian Knanaya Church in Clifton, Jersey. I found this discussion forum very
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 13, 2002
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                            Hello Everybody,
                            My name is Sajeev Kavumkal. I am a member of St. Thomas Syrian Knanaya
                            Church in Clifton, Jersey. I found this discussion forum very
                            interesting and informative. And I think through this discussion the
                            members of this forum can understnd more about our Syrian Orthodox faith
                            and keep up our faith in H.H. Zakka Iwas, the supream head of Universal
                            Syrian Orthodox church.

                            Remember, in Bible it is clearly written that the first church(sabha)
                            was started in antiaoch and we are an integral part of that church.
                            So our Lord will not allow anybody to distroy it.
                            Keep up the good work.
                            Sajeev.
                          • Manoj George
                            I really cannot understand how anyone in their right senses can endorse the actions of the Devalokam Group. I am not refering only to the recent incidents but
                            Message 13 of 29 , Sep 13, 2002
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                              I really cannot understand how anyone in their right
                              senses can endorse the actions of the Devalokam
                              Group. I am not refering only to the recent incidents
                              but right from early 1900 's. There have been
                              enough instances in the Malankara Sabha history in
                              this century to prove that this group have no
                              inhibitions about going to any extent to aquire the
                              churches and other temporal assets of the Orthodox
                              Church. Let me give an example. I belong to the Syrian
                              Orthodox community which migrated to
                              the state of Karnataka in the early 50's.
                              Predominantly we are settled in the South Canara and
                              Chickmagalore
                              districts. We come under the perviewe of The
                              Evangilical Association of the East which is under the
                              direct
                              Jurisdiction of the Patriarchate. We have 14 churches
                              and 5 chapels which have been built only
                              because of the sincere efforts of the people and the
                              Blessings of God. I write this because the
                              people living in these areas are not financially
                              strong but in spite of this we have been able to build
                              places of worship largely due to the strong leadership
                              given by the clergy in these areas.
                              The incident I am refering to happened in St.George
                              Church, Narasimharajapura which is the largest parish
                              in Karnataka with over 400 families. This church has 5
                              chapels. Recently in one of the chapels there came up
                              a
                              issue which was purely an internal one and a very
                              small group of about 10 people turned against the
                              Vicar who
                              is my Grandfather. As usual and with tactics known
                              only to them the Devalokam group brought this small
                              group under their influence and took up the issue. The
                              result was an issue which was a very minute one was
                              blown
                              out of proportions and a case was filed in the court
                              for the possession of the Chapel. I dont want to
                              elaborate the
                              details of the unchristian methods with which they
                              tried to take possession of the church but I want to
                              write about
                              one particular incident which shows that they can go
                              to any extent to establish their claim.In order to
                              show in the
                              court that the chapel actually belonged to them and
                              that we were occupying the Chapel unlawfully, they
                              produced
                              a few photographs in the court. These were photographs
                              of the Devalokam Priest (?) offering H.Qurbana in this
                              chapel.
                              And beleive me, these photographs were taken in the
                              most cunning way only this particular group can do.
                              All the doors of the chapel were bolted from inside
                              and only the main door was locked from outside. What
                              they did
                              was one of these people got inside the chapel through
                              the roof and opened the door for the Priest (?). And
                              he put on the
                              'Kappa' and posed for the photographs. Can anyone
                              think of a more cunning way to do it?
                              This is the tradition of the Devalokam group and
                              proves that anyone in their right sense of mind can
                              never ever endorse
                              the actions of this group.

                              Regards
                              Manoj George
                            • Malankara Voice
                              Invitation to enrol as a subscriber of the Malankara Voice News Bulletins Welcome to MALANKARA VOICE, the online news web site that publishes the latest events
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 13, 2002
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                                Invitation to enrol as a subscriber of the Malankara Voice
                                News Bulletins

                                Welcome to MALANKARA VOICE, the online news web site that publishes
                                the latest events from the Malankara (Indian) Jacobite Syrian Orthodox
                                Church. This web news bulletin, first launched in July 2001, is
                                promoted by a group of Syriac Orthodox Christians from central Travancore
                                and is now functioning under the banner ‘Malankara Voice News Group’.

                                Those who wish to receive 'news bulletins' published in Malankara-Voice
                                in your e-mail, please send a subscription request from the email address
                                you wish to put on the list to: Malankara-Voice-subscribe@....
                                The subscription process will be completed automatically.
                                With Regards
                                Moderators, Malankara Voice

                                Our Online News Web Site : www.MalankaraVoice.cjb.net
                                Malankara Voice News group at Yahoo:
                                http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/Malankara-Voice
                              • Varghese George
                                14 Sept. 2002 In response to your call for identification : Name : George Varghesse Address : Mannakuzhiyil House ... Pathanamthitta dist. Home
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 13, 2002
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                                  14 Sept. 2002
                                  In response to your call for identification :

                                  Name : George Varghesse
                                  Address : Mannakuzhiyil House
                                  : Thadiyoor P.O.
                                  Pathanamthitta dist.

                                  Home Parish : Mar Ignathiose Jacobite Syrian Church, Ayroor
                                  Thumpamon Diocese

                                  Presently working in Faculty of Medicine, Kuwait University and is
                                  a member of St. George Universal Syrian Orthodox Church - Kuwait.

                                  I am happy only to give any further details if needed.
                                • Thomas Daniel
                                  2002.09.11 Daily Star: Orthodox youth end gathering with networking plan Some 30 young people representing the Coptic, Syrian and Armenian Orthodox Churches in
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 13, 2002
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                                    2002.09.11 Daily Star:
                                    Orthodox youth end gathering with networking plan

                                    Some 30 young people representing the Coptic, Syrian and Armenian Orthodox
                                    Churches in the Middle East concluded their three-day gathering held in
                                    Bikfaya to analyze the common challenges facing the youth.
                                    According to a statement issued Tuesday, the gathering was held under the
                                    theme of the First Orthodox Youth Gathering.

                                    Participants had the opportunity to pray together and learn the history of
                                    their respective churches. During the plenary sessions, participants
                                    discussed the challenges of the era and the networking of the Orthodox
                                    Youth.

                                    In their final session, participants issued a list of resolutions
                                    stipulating the establishment of an interactive e-mail group, the
                                    preparation of a website for the Orthodox Youth, the publication of a
                                    newsletter for the gathering and the organization of the Annual Day of
                                    Prayer and Celebration for the gathering.

                                    The statement also said that a Second Orthodox Youth Gathering would be
                                    held between Sept. 5-9, 2003 in Egypt.

                                    Thomas Daniel
                                    St. George Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church (Cheriya Pally)
                                    Cheppaud
                                  • Aji Thomas David
                                    Hi Mr. Thomas, This is really great..!!! and a very innovative idea. Hope everything goes well and our youngsters have a bright future. I really appreciate all
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 14, 2002
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                                      Hi Mr. Thomas,

                                      This is really great..!!! and a very innovative idea. Hope everything
                                      goes well and our youngsters have a bright future. I really appreciate
                                      all who are behind this noble cause. I hope there won't be any
                                      discriminations, and the services can be availed equally by the
                                      Knanaya community & Non knanaya Jacobite community. Once again cheers
                                      to all..!!!

                                      In Christ
                                      Aji Thomas David
                                      Kadisa Church
                                      Kayamkulam
                                    • Fr. John Kunjukunju
                                      Dear Reji & members of the forum Aattached is the article desired for Sleeba perunal, Thanks, Johnachen The Cross September 14 is the feast of Holy Cross.
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 14, 2002
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                                        Dear Reji & members of the forum
                                        Aattached is the article desired for Sleeba perunal,
                                        Thanks,
                                        Johnachen

                                        The Cross

                                        September 14 is the feast of Holy Cross. There is special liturgy in Syria.
                                        We have none but Holy Eucharist. Queen Helena, mother of Emperor Constantine
                                        the Great of Rome, led an expedition to Jerusalem to find the cross on which
                                        Jesus Christ was crucified. By then the whole world forgot about Jesus’ cross
                                        and the place where it was abandoned. She, after great deal of effort and
                                        spending, finally located the spot. Jews connived with then Roman authorities
                                        and dumped Jesus’ cross in very deep pit so that it could never be found. They
                                        converted the area into landfill. Three centuries’ continuous waste- dump made
                                        the place a hillock. Foul stink, broken glasses, thorny plants, etc made it a
                                        haven for ravens where none dared to go. Helena’s persuasions to explore the
                                        area met with cold feet. The wise queen sprinkled gold power all over the area
                                        and declared rewards to those who collect the most. There was incredible rush
                                        to win the contest. The zealous gold-mongers cleared the area in short period.
                                        They unearthed the cross from over 300’ dept. There were three identical
                                        crosses. It was impossible to identify Jesus’ cross. A dead body stimulated to
                                        life when it touched one cross. Thus they ascertained the cross of Jesus and
                                        discarded others. She took the cross to Constantinople with great honor. The
                                        emperor lavishly constructed a church in Rome called, “Basilica
                                        Constantiniana.” He dedicated the cross in the “Church of Holy Sepulchre” on
                                        Sept. 14, 335. Muslim militants destroyed this most precious Christian relic
                                        during the infamous Crusades that ravished the Christendom in the thirteenth
                                        century.

                                        The queen had sound reason to undertake such a task. Maxentius, the neighboring
                                        king, declared war on Constantine. Constantine became deeply troubled and went
                                        to bed with a heavy heart, for Maxentius was tenfold stronger. That night
                                        Constantine saw a vision; sign of cross, of superimposed light in the sky. He
                                        heard a voice, “Carry this sign on the uniforms of the soldiers and you will
                                        win.” He could not fully comprehend the implication of the vision nonetheless,
                                        he obeyed it in letter and spirit and miraculously he won the war against his
                                        stronger foe. He became Emperor of Rome. He had no doubt that ‘Cross’ brought
                                        him victory. He soon believed and submitted to Jesus Christ who was hanged on
                                        the cross, dead buried and on the third day rose again. He became the first
                                        ever ruler to embrace Christianity. He made Christianity, till then a
                                        persecuted religion, the official religion of the empire. Heathen citizens
                                        became Christians, their priests became Christian priests and Heathen temples
                                        became Christian Churches. Persecutions came to a halt. Christianity for the
                                        first time after three centuries of its inception became a royal religion. The
                                        title, “Pontiff,” hither to assigned to heathen adviser to Roman Emperor
                                        shifted to the Bishop of Rome and he became first among the equals. Priesthood
                                        acquired symbols of royalty. Christians’ property rights were established.
                                        Sunday, the worship day of Christians became national holiday for the first
                                        time. In the transition what Christianity lost was its original fervor, vigor
                                        and chastity. Conversions were a necessity rather than willful choice.
                                        Christianity became a world religion and succumbed to egocentric power
                                        politics. So we can cite both good and evil consequences of famous “Edit of
                                        Milan” on June 15, 313 that made Christianity the state religion. But that is
                                        not my subject to now deal with.

                                        Capital punishment by hanging on tree was very ancient system of the orient.
                                        The hanged was considered accursed of God. The body should be removed from tree
                                        on the same day lest the land would be defiled, Deut 21:22-23. Murder,
                                        rebellion, robbery, treason, etc merited crucifixion. Crucifixion was favorite
                                        way of execution to Romans. It was the cruel most form of punishment. They
                                        inflicted it upon outside criminals and slaves. Roman citizens were exempted.
                                        Antiochus Epiphanus crucified many Jews who defied his decrees. Death in this
                                        case was most painful, violent and slowest. It usually took three to four days
                                        to die suffering from acute bleeding, pain, asphyxiation, hunger and thirst.
                                        Sedatives were given to reduce pain and legs were broken to hasten death. The
                                        soldiers did both to both thieves. Jesus refused to drink sedative, thus
                                        consciously bore pain in its full magnitude. Soldiers had to ascertain the
                                        death of victims before vacating the scene. The soldiers were surprised that
                                        Jesus died so fast. They did not break His legs but pierced His side to make
                                        sure He had died, John 19:34.

                                        St. Paul quoted Deuteronomy 21:23 and said that Jesus, by hanging on the tree
                                        became curse for us and thus removed the curse which was on us, Gal
                                        3:13. ‘Jehovah witness’ misinterpret word ‘tree’ and teach that Jesus was
                                        hanged on a single stem as if on a real tree. Risen Jesus showed disciples His
                                        hands with nail mark that removed their doubts about resurrection, John 20:20.
                                        Jesus stretched His hands horizontally to both sides, Col 2:14.
                                        Jesus was crucified according to Roman manner on a Latin cross
                                        (Crux Immissa)because it was not the Jews but the Roman soldiers who
                                        carried out judgement.

                                        Jesus carried the crossbeam. The upright beam was permanently fixed on the
                                        ground. The culprits were scourged, stripped naked, hands stretched and nailed
                                        on both sides and then lifted and fastened to the upright beam. Four nails were
                                        usually used. Rope tying was employed to support body weight and to prevent
                                        from wriggling loose. The culprits’ clothing went to soldiers, Mat 27:35.
                                        Criminal carried around his neck a placard inscribing the offense so that
                                        others could clearly see to the place of crucifixion and placed overhead after
                                        crucifixion. Roman crucifixion was in a nutshell in this form of according to
                                        various historical records. Therefore Jehovah witness’ teaching is erroneous.
                                        As in the case of the whole proceedings of indictment it is an absolute irony
                                        that the title “King of the Jews” which was placed overhead does not constitute
                                        an offence. Emperor Constantine abolished capital punishment of crucifixion.
                                        Certain people say that Jesus was killed on the cross and hence the cross is
                                        murder weapon and should not be venerated nor treated holy. The very idea that
                                        Jesus was killed on the cross is wrong. But for willful choice, to undergo
                                        death on the cross so that He ought to win over death and decay that so far
                                        reigned over mankind, to give everlasting life to humanity; no one could have
                                        imposed death on Him. He said, that legions would have come to save Him if He
                                        so desired, Mat 26:53. “I lay down my life that I may take it again. No one
                                        takes it from me, but I lay it down myself,” Joh 10:17-18. Something that He
                                        voluntarily chose could not be said as something mankind imposed upon Him. On
                                        the other hand He chose to remove the curse of the law by becoming curse. His
                                        passion, crucifixion and resurrection were fulfillment of redemption conceived
                                        even before all creations. Denial of this truth alleges that Christian faith is
                                        false and they are most miserable creatures guilty of relying on fiction and
                                        still live in sin, says St. Paul. Thus treating cross, as murder weapon is
                                        wholly absurd heresy.

                                        Next allegation is that it is idolatry to worship cross. The fact is that we
                                        worship crucified Christ not the cross-shaped wood. We venerate the cross
                                        because through cross we are redeemed. Literally, cross is not an idol. Idol is
                                        the image of any figure such as likeness of human, beast on earth, fowl in air,
                                        anything that creeps on ground, or fish in waters either carved or painted,
                                        Deut 4:16-18. The original Decalogue says “You shall not make graven image or
                                        likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath
                                        or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down nor serve them
                                        for I am the Lord your God”, Ex 20:4-5. The word “anything” would include
                                        angels, plants and leaves. Moses made two cherubs of gold and placed facing
                                        each other on the two ends of the mercy seat, Ex 37:7-9. Solomon’s temple had
                                        two cherubs; wings spread wall to wall of the Holy of Holies, made of olive and
                                        covered with gold. Cherubs were carved on the wall paneling, 1 K 6:29, 32, and
                                        35, 7:36. Many Israelites died of fiery serpents’ bite. God instructed Moses to
                                        make brass serpent and post in on a pole in the center of the tent. Moses so
                                        did and those who looked on the brass serpent were saved. These are exceptions
                                        to the law of idolatry. Literally, cross has no likeness of any natural object
                                        and hence it is outside the purview of idol or idolatry. Theologically,
                                        anything such as, money, possession, beauty, fame, interest, authority or that
                                        is given more importance than God is idol.

                                        The Cross has cosmic dimension that it is sign of Christ’s universal dominion.
                                        It represents vertical relation between God and humanity and horizontal
                                        relation between people. Geographically, it stands in the center of universe;
                                        its ends extend infinitely to four corner of the universe and brings to
                                        subjection “The breadth, length, hight and depth of the creations, Eph 3:18. It
                                        stands in the center of the human history and thus culminates its dominion to
                                        the past present and the future. Church prohibits iconographic portrayal of
                                        nude, dead Christ on the crucifix as opposed to the dereliction of west. Church
                                        prohibits use of graven image on the cross.

                                        Cross represents supreme and divine love of suffering and self-renunciation.
                                        Jesus laid down a hard condition to follow him that is to take up ones’ cross,
                                        Mat 10:38, 16:24, Mk 8:34, Lk 9:23. In other words, it is impossible to follow
                                        Jesus without first denying self. One has to be prepared to loose ones life,
                                        relations and belonging. Nothing less than the total abnegation is acceptable.
                                        Cross is nonsense to those who perish but power to those who are saved says St
                                        Paul. For this reason he felt that preaching in polished language deprives the
                                        value of cross, 1 Cor 1:17, 18, 23. He boasted only in cross, Gal 6:14. St.
                                        Peter out of reverence opted to be crucified upside down. Cross is symbol of
                                        unity between Jews and Gentiles, Eph 2:16. Cross is symbol of overcoming
                                        sensual desires because those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh.
                                        Cross is the symbol of reconciliation for, God the father absolved the mankind
                                        of their inequities by imputing all crimes on Jesus and nailing it to the
                                        cross. Cross is the symbol of victory over sin, Satan and death because Jesus
                                        nailed them on the cross and came out victorious. Cross is the symbol of saving
                                        grace of God for; Jesus’ death and resurrection brought redemption and eternal
                                        life to mankind.

                                        Tradition has that Apostles carried wooden cross. St. Thomas carried wooden
                                        cross in hand and also tied around neck. He grouted wooden cross wherever he
                                        founded a church. Malayattur remains a living testimony. The Pilgrim Fathers,
                                        it is said brought with them a seven foot-high wooden cross with them. First
                                        they did soon after landing was fastening it to the ground with a prayer
                                        dedicating this land to God.
                                        Fr. John KK
                                      • SOCM
                                        Dear Members of SOCM, His Holiness Moran Mor Ignatius Zakka I Iwas is entering into his 23rd year of Patriarchal reign. On September 14, 1980, H.H was
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Sep 14, 2002
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                                          Dear Members of SOCM,
                                          His Holiness Moran Mor Ignatius Zakka I Iwas is entering into his 23rd
                                          year of Patriarchal reign.

                                          On September 14, 1980, H.H was consecrated as the Patriarch of Antioch by
                                          name Ignatius Zakka I, in a rite officiated by Catholicos of the East,
                                          Mor Baselius Paulos II of blessed memory along with the archbishops of
                                          the Holy Synod.

                                          Let us, the members of SOCM, pray that God grant H.H. good health , strength
                                          and wisdom to lead the members of The Universal Syriac Orthodox Church for many
                                          more years to come.
                                          http://sor.cua.edu/Personage/PZakka1/index.html

                                          With praises & thanks to the Lord God
                                          Forum Moderators
                                        • Dn. Zacharia Varghese
                                          Dear All, Thank you for maintaining this vigorous forum airing the views of our faithful. I have enjoyed reading questions and responses. I hope that as we
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Sep 14, 2002
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                                            Dear All,

                                            Thank you for maintaining this vigorous forum airing the views of our
                                            faithful. I have enjoyed reading questions and responses. I hope that
                                            as we celebrate the aniversary of the enthronement of our Patriarch,
                                            we can remember our duty to advocate the Mother Church´s truths.

                                            Sincerely,
                                            Dn. Zacharia Varghese
                                            Dallas, TX
                                          • V Thomas
                                            Dear All, I have come across this case Mr.Manoj is referring.What I have heard is the priest went through Roof,and followed by bishop.When catholicose tries to
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Sep 14, 2002
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                                              Dear All,
                                              I have come across this case Mr.Manoj is referring.What I have heard
                                              is the priest went through Roof,and followed by bishop.When catholicose
                                              tries to enter through window,no wonder Bishops follow suit.The Malayalam
                                              saying is correct'like king his subjects"!

                                              But Bible is clear- those who enter through back door is none but thief.
                                              Love
                                              V.M. Thomas
                                            • Malankara Voice
                                              1. 22nd Anniversary of the Coronation of the Patriarch of Antioch and all the East http://www.geocities.com/malankarav3/Patriarch.htm 2. Methran faction s
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Sep 14, 2002
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                                                1. 22nd Anniversary of the Coronation of the Patriarch of Antioch
                                                and all the East
                                                http://www.geocities.com/malankarav3/Patriarch.htm

                                                2. "Methran faction's attack on Majanikkara Dayaro, most unfortunate"
                                                - Viswasa Samathi

                                                http://www.geocities.com/malankarav3/Majanikkara_Dayaro_3.htm
                                                More Links available at:- http://www.malankaravoice.cjb.net
                                                http://www.geocities.com/malankarav3/news_section_1.htm
                                              • Dr. Daniel Babu Paul
                                                The Cross is gallows transformed into symbol of grace. The Sleeba Perunal was probably observed from the 4th century itself, although modern scholars do not
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Sep 14, 2002
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                                                  The Cross is gallows transformed into symbol of grace. The Sleeba
                                                  Perunal was probably observed from the 4th century itself, although
                                                  modern scholars do not attach critical significance to the Helena
                                                  story.This is an occasion for us to contemplate on the Cross.

                                                  Christ asked us to follow him carrying our cross. Many sermons have
                                                  been preached on this "our cross". However the system of execution
                                                  would explain what our Lord meant. The one who carries his cross to
                                                  the place of execution has no freedom except what is granted by the
                                                  Centurion; no address except the gypsom board on which he and his
                                                  crime( read biodata or Cv in modern terms) would be recorded. He
                                                  cannot even complain that he is tired, or that the Cross he is given
                                                  is heavier. that is total surrender. Christ demands that kind of
                                                  surrender, to be made voluntarily, by his followers.

                                                  Any one hanged on a tree was deemed accursed.Therefore according to
                                                  Law Jesus is accursed.Whoever is accursed by the Law is exiled from
                                                  it. Whoever is exiled is no longer under the Law.We who follow Him
                                                  are also likewise free from the Law. This is the Pauline explanation
                                                  of the significance of the Cross as explained by Everett.

                                                  For John Cross is the symbol of God's glory. The new Brazen Serpent.
                                                  Look to Him and be saved. John 19:37 with Numbers 21: 49.John's
                                                  Gospel shows the journey to Calvary as the victory march of a
                                                  victorious emperor.

                                                  The Cross is gallows. It needs a prey. Either we can offer ourselves
                                                  as prey and be rid of sins i.e. crucify the world, or we can crucify
                                                  Christ again.

                                                  The making of the sign of the cross began in the 2nd century itself,
                                                  mostly as a private affair since church was still underground. The
                                                  public symbol was either fish or dove, mostly fish because ICHTHYS
                                                  means fish and can also be an acronym for Iesus Christos Theou Huios
                                                  Soter, viz. Jesus Christ, son of God, Redeemer. It finally became the
                                                  central smbol because, " Its two bars were already a cosmic symbol
                                                  from remote antiquity of the axis between heaven and earth. But its
                                                  choice by Christians had a more specific explanation. They wished to
                                                  commemmorate as central to their understanding of Jesus ".

                                                  Ancient Christians in India used many forms. Please see either
                                                  Dr. Nangachiveetil's book or my VEDASABDARATNAKARAM. The latter also
                                                  tries to connect the Cross to a verse in Mundakopanishad.

                                                  Let us meditate this week on John 19:37.
                                                  TOTUS TUUS MARIA
                                                • Mathew Idichandi
                                                  Hello All, Please clarify one doubt of mine.A friend of mine recently told me that our bava has only formal education of fourth standard.Is it true? I
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Sep 15, 2002
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                                                    Hello All,

                                                    Please clarify one doubt of mine.A friend of mine
                                                    recently told me that our bava has only formal
                                                    education of fourth standard.Is it true?
                                                    I sincerely need a response to clarify my doubtsand
                                                    stand up against the people who dont respect him.
                                                    Thanks,
                                                    Alappurathu Idichandy Mathew
                                                    My parish:Manjinikkara
                                                    residence:Alapurath house,Omallur,
                                                    Pathanamthitta.Kerala
                                                  • Ashley S. Chinnan
                                                    Hello! My name is Ashley Chinnan and a friend of mine joined me to the Forum few months ago. Initially, I was a little bit skeptical about the forum because I
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Sep 15, 2002
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                                                      Hello!

                                                      My name is Ashley Chinnan and a friend of mine joined me to the
                                                      Forum few months ago. Initially, I was a little bit skeptical about the
                                                      forum because I thought it mainly dealt with political issues. But as I
                                                      have been reading all the messages, I must say that I'm glad that my
                                                      friend joined me in the forum. I'm a Sunday school teacher at St. Mary's
                                                      Jacobite church in Lynbrook, New York, and I find many useful topics that
                                                      I could discuss with my students from the forum. Not only do I find
                                                      useful discussion topics, I 've learned so much about our church's
                                                      history and why we do the certain things that we do.
                                                      Thank you and please continue to enlighten me.
                                                    • Kuriakose Corepiscopa Moolayi
                                                      My dear and most beloved in our Lord and God, I write this to inform you that I am entering into the 25th year of my priestly ordination on 17th September
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Sep 15, 2002
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                                                        My dear and most beloved in our Lord and God,

                                                        I write this to inform you that I am entering into the 25th year of my
                                                        priestly ordination on 17th September 2002. I was ordained as a priest by
                                                        the late lamented Mor Gregoriose Geevarghese Metropolitan at St. Adai's
                                                        Church Nalunnakkal along with Rev.Fr.Mathews Edathara, Augusta Georgia, USA
                                                        and Rev.Fr. Geevarghese Thekkanathu, Thrikkothamangalam.

                                                        I praise the Lord Almighty for all the blessings I had to work in the
                                                        vineyard of our Lord. Now when I look back I think I had crossed the great
                                                        part in my life with much blessings and profound gifts from my Lord.
                                                        I have been blessed by the prayers and supports of my friends and relatives
                                                        all through my way. I got the full support of my co workers wherever I was
                                                        posted. The achivements I have made are mainly through these blessings and
                                                        cooperations. I thank them all. I thank all my close associates for the
                                                        genorous support and encouragements in my griefs and sorrows.

                                                        I thank my parents and family members for the love and care given to me to
                                                        support my ministry.

                                                        I remember my beloved Spiritual fathers and teachers who showed me the way
                                                        to the Lord. I am indebted to the members of the Syrian Orthodox Church who
                                                        loved me and helped me in all ways in my travels in India and elsewhere and
                                                        the supports given to the projects I had been focussing at different times.

                                                        I am thankful to the prelates and the leaders of the church for assaigning
                                                        me different positions in the church in addition to the priestly offices in
                                                        the past 24 years and more.

                                                        I thank God for all the blessings.
                                                        Please pray for me and bless me,

                                                        BLESS MY LORD, IN THE SERVICE OF OUR LORD.
                                                        Kuriakose Corepiscopa Moolayil

                                                        ----------------------
                                                        From the desk of Moderators:
                                                        On behalf of the members of the SOCM, we congratulate you on this occasion.
                                                        We pray that God bless him abundantly with good health and energy so that
                                                        he can continue to serve the Church for many more years to come
                                                      • Jacob V. Joshua
                                                        Respected Rev. fathers and dear friends, Are we true followers of the Son of Man, who had no property or a place to rest His head although the birds have nests
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Sep 15, 2002
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                                                          Respected Rev. fathers and dear friends,

                                                          Are we true followers of the Son of Man, who had no property or a place to
                                                          rest His head although the birds have nests and snakes have wholes to take
                                                          rest ?

                                                          Is there nobody amongst the so called elite and powerful faction owing
                                                          allegiance to the Kottayam/Devalokam faction of the Malankara Syrian
                                                          Orthodox Church to give advice or wisdom to their confused leadership?
                                                          Or they want to watch and enjoy the street fights (even with the dead
                                                          bodies) and troubles erupted in the Malankara Church just to capture
                                                          other's properties ? Does it not resemble the Emperor Nero, who was
                                                          enjoying and celebrating in his palace when Rome was burning ? It seems
                                                          that the Kottayam leadership have been sent to this earth to acquire
                                                          properties of others and give accounts to somewhere/someone they only know.

                                                          No court has so far declared that all the parishes of the Malankara Church
                                                          belong to any group or faction or methran or bawa or priest or anybody in
                                                          this world. The parish belongs to the God Almighty and its day to day care
                                                          has to be undertaken by the faithful who go and attend there.

                                                          Instead "Samaraahwanam", political threats, backstabbing, stone throwing,
                                                          planned attacks on the holy places, cunning and manipulated actions to
                                                          take control of the churches, goondaism by the reverend priests, etc.,
                                                          etc. shall not find any end to this man-made conflict in the Holy Church.
                                                          It is heard that some film producers and directors have taken keen
                                                          interest to make a good commercial film on these 'Christianities' and they
                                                          are hopeful to make good profit without much investments. The so called
                                                          "model Christians" are available in plenty and they will be happy to act
                                                          in such a film without any monetary benefit.

                                                          One must understand that the Patriarch of Antioch & All the East was very
                                                          much willing to have peace in the Malankara Church and that was the only
                                                          reason that His Holiness did not ordain any Catholicos for the Malankara
                                                          Church after the demise of the Late Catholicos His Beatitude Aabun Mor
                                                          Basalious Paulose II on Sept.1, 1996.

                                                          Everybody waited till 26th July 2002 for the return of the Catholicos to
                                                          the main stream of the Universal Syrian Orthodox Church. The Catholicos
                                                          was willing to accept the Patriarch as Supreme Spiritual Head of the
                                                          Church, but some vested people did not allow him to do so. Therefore the
                                                          conflict continued. Now the Jacobite faction has got the Patriarch
                                                          (Supreme Head of the Universal Syrian Orthodox Church), Catholicose (local
                                                          head of the Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church, which is a part of
                                                          the Universal Church) ordained by the Patriarch as stipulated in the Sabha
                                                          Constitution), Malankara Syrian Chrisitian Association, Constitution, etc.
                                                          and become a full pledged Church as envisaged by the early fathers of the
                                                          Church. The Supreme Court Judgement also confirms that a true Church should
                                                          have all the above mentioned offices of Spiritual authorities in a Church.

                                                          Let us pray to God that the divine peace may prevail upon our Church and
                                                          the God Almighty may give all of us enough patience and strength to forgive
                                                          and forget the misdeeds comitted by all of us.

                                                          Yours in Christ,
                                                          Jacob V. Joshua
                                                          New Delhi
                                                        • dooley1112
                                                          Sometime back a brother stated that Mor Osthathios a senior Metropolitan of the Malankara Church reportedly venerated and prayed by a statute of the Blessed
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Sep 15, 2002
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                                                            Sometime back a brother stated that Mor Osthathios a senior
                                                            Metropolitan of the Malankara Church reportedly venerated and prayed
                                                            by a statute of the Blessed Mother.

                                                            I posted back requesting a picture and article no one gave one...I
                                                            once again request the picture and article...and to please stop
                                                            denying the truth and creating false rumors!
                                                            -----------------------------
                                                            From the desk of Moderators
                                                            Mr. Dooly, we clarified your point along with post. Please go to our
                                                            photo section "Clarifications" their you can view the picture. As we requested
                                                            earlier, please disclose your identity in your future postings.
                                                          • Thomas Daniel
                                                            Dear Mr. Idichandy, What your friend told you is fully correct. Please inform your friend, H.B was working as an ANJALOTTAKKARAN (hope your friend know the
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Sep 16, 2002
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                                                              Dear Mr. Idichandy,
                                                              What your friend told you is fully correct. Please inform your
                                                              friend, H.B was working as an "ANJALOTTAKKARAN" (hope your friend
                                                              know the meaning of this word) and as "NEWS PAPER BOY" too to support
                                                              his family before he becomes the priest of Malankara Church.

                                                              We should be proud of our BAVA and church. In our church worldly
                                                              education is not counted for elevating someone for the priesthood.
                                                              Once a layman elevated as priest, then he can become the Catholicose
                                                              or Patriarch of our church if the Almighty choose him. You might know
                                                              that the majority of the Apostles were not even having any basic
                                                              education. Still they were called to that position by the Lord God.
                                                              In our Church, we believe that the same sprit is called anyone for
                                                              the priesthood.

                                                              Now regarding the H.B Baselious Thomas I, his worldly education is
                                                              nothing, but his spiritual education is much more than anyone in
                                                              Malankara which can't be measured by any University or law of the
                                                              land.

                                                              As you know, he was a very famous convention speaker. And he was in
                                                              very demand also, when he was just merely a priest. He was a regular
                                                              speaker in "Nilakkal Convention" conducted by Nilackal Indian
                                                              Orthodox Church, Puthuppally, Kottayam which was witnessed me many
                                                              times along with many of IOC members.

                                                              Also he was very good organizer, none from Malankara can deny his
                                                              efforts and hard work to build the Kolanchery Mission Hospital.

                                                              From the day he started opposing the IOC and their modern teachings,
                                                              he become an untouchable to them. When he is elevated as the
                                                              Catholicose their untouchability increased and they started doubting
                                                              his wordily education.

                                                              But we are proud of him. He is leading us through the true path of
                                                              our forefathers and struggling and accepting all sort of humiliation
                                                              & harassments to keep the Holy Church grow through the true path.

                                                              May the almighty, who choose him as Catholicose, will strengthen him
                                                              in his rest of the life.

                                                              In our Lords Love
                                                              Thomas Daniel
                                                              St. George Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church
                                                              Cheppaud
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