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Re: Pope of India..!! or Pope of Kottayam ???

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  • Fr.T.George
    Dear Abraham Kurien, My statement that We are one in Christ has been based on Chrstian love. Could you negate this fact? How would you justify the stance
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 27, 2007
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      Dear Abraham Kurien,

      My statement that " We are one in Christ" has been based on Chrstian love. Could you negate this fact? How would you justify the stance taken by jacobite church in having intercommunion with the Roman catholic church which upholds the doctrine of Immaculate conception of St.Mary? The intercommunion means one church and one faith. The over emphasis given to the veneration of St.Mary than what we ought to have to Christ, in the Syrian jacobite church is something indicative that you are in the same line of Latin catholic piety. I am afraid whether the syrian orthodox theologians support the special custom of Nada thurakkal, fasting after Holy Qurbana during the 8 days lent etc in the Manarcadu church or not. Of course, I have great respect towards St. Mary and Manarcadu pally. The usage of 'Nanma niranja mathave.... instead of 'Kripa niranja mathave' in some of the prayer books vogue in jacobite church and also the inclusion of a song with the term ' Amalolbhava mathave' used in a recently released video album in connection with Manarcadu church 8days Lent, all point to this fact. Perhaps, it may not be official?!!! But I have the evidence with me. Anyway, I infer that you people are also heading towards Rome as all roads lead to Rome. Correct me if I am wrong.

      With prayers,
      Fr.T.George, Ireland
      ================================================

      From the desk of moderators.

      The Syriac orthodox Church does not have any inter communion with Roman Catholic Church, rather it is only a pastoral care, in situations which now-a-days are frequent both because of the dispersion of our faithful throughout the world and because of the precarious conditions of these difficult times. Same type of agreements exists in other OO churches such as Armenian OC vs RC & Coptic OC vs Greek OC and as you may be aware, MOC is also discussing this possibility with Roman Church. However, the agreement is misinterpreted and spreads by the rivals of the Holy Syriac Church. The agreement wordings are as follows.

      9.Our identity in faith, though not yet complete, entitles us to envisage collaboration between our Churches in pastoral care, in situations which nowadays are frequent both because of the dispersion of our faithful throughout the world and because of the precarious conditions of these difficult times. It is not rare, in fact, for our faithful to find access to a priest of their own Church materially or morally impossible. Anxious to meet their needs and with their spiritual benefit in mind, we authorize them in such cases to ask for the Sacraments of Penance, Eucharist and Anointing of the Sick from lawful priests of either of our two sister Churches, when they need them. It would be a logical corollary of collaboration in pastoral care to cooperate in priestly formation and theological education. Bishops are encouraged to promote sharing of facilities for theological education where they judge it to be advisable. While doing this we do not forget that we must still do all in our power to achieve the full visible communion between the Catholic Church and the Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch and ceaselessly implore our Lord to grant us that unity which alone will enable us to give to the world a fully unanimous Gospel witness.

      For more details, please visit http://sor.cua.edu/Ecumenism/rc.html
    • Fr.T.George
      Dear Moderator, Thanks for your explanation. Dr.D.Babu Paul(Bar eetho!) once told me that while he was a regular communicant of the St.Peter s Jacobite
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 28, 2007
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        Dear Moderator,

        Thanks for your explanation. Dr.D.Babu Paul(Bar eetho!) once told me that while he was a regular communicant of the St.Peter's Jacobite syrian Orthodox church,Punnan road,Trivandrum on every sunday morning, he used to be a regular communicant of the Roman Catholic church at Palayam,Trivandrum as well in the very same evening. How would you justify this based on your explantion?

        Yours in Orthodox faith,
        Fr.T.George
        Ireland
      • Mathew G M
        I have a friend who is Indian Orthodox, I wont name him, who attend Holy Qurbana at an Indian Orthodox Church and also made a pilgrimage to Sabrimala. Does
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 29, 2007
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          I have a friend who is Indian Orthodox, I wont name him, who attend
          Holy Qurbana at an Indian Orthodox Church and also made a pilgrimage
          to Sabrimala. Does this prove that Indian Orthodox Church is in
          communion with the Hindu Religion ?

          Your argument that SOC is in full communion with the RC based on the
          actions of one of the members of SOC, sounds just as ridiculous as
          the above argument.

          In Christ,
          Mathew G M
          0929

          --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Fr.T.George wrote:
          >
          > Dear Moderator,
          >
          > Thanks for your explanation. Dr.D.Babu Paul(Bar eetho!) once told
          me that while he was a regular communicant of the St.Peter's
          Jacobite syrian Orthodox church,Punnan road,Trivandrum on every
          sunday morning, he used to be a regular communicant of the Roman
          Catholic church at Palayam,Trivandrum as well in the very same
          evening. How would you justify this based on your explantion?
          >
          > Yours in Orthodox faith,
          > Fr.T.George
          > Ireland
          >
        • Mathew G M
          Dear Fr George, You are accussing the SOC of leaning more towards Rome. From my understanding it is not an Orthodox tradition to use three dimensional statues
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 5, 2007
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            Dear Fr George,

            You are accussing the SOC of leaning more towards Rome.

            From my understanding it is not an Orthodox tradition to use three
            dimensional statues of saints in churches. We only use icons.

            If you click on the following link you can see a photo of Mar
            Osthathios a very senior bishop in the IOC installing a statue of St. Mary in Niranam church. I haven't been to Niranam church recently and dont know if that statue is still there.

            http://tinyurl.com/yo3mdm

            So does this prove that the Indian Orthodox Church is now accepting
            the Latin tradition of installing concrete statues of saints in
            churches? I don't think so.

            So please dont take an isolated incident of a song released in a
            cassette at Manarcadu and extrapolate and say the Holy Syriac
            Orthodox Church is going to end up a rite of the Roman Catholic
            Church.

            However if we can resolve all the christological controversies and
            have a union of Western (Roman), Eastern (Greek) and Oriental
            Orthodox Churches to have One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church;
            isnt it a good thing ?

            In Christ,
            Mathew G M

            --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Fr.T.George wrote:
            How would you justify the stance taken by jacobite church in having
            intercommunion with the Roman catholic church which upholds the
            doctrine of Immaculate conception of St.Mary? The intercommunion
            means one church and one faith. The over emphasis given to the
            veneration of St.Mary than what we ought to have to Christ, in the
            Syrian jacobite church is something indicative that you are in the
          • Lijo Mathew
            Dear Fr. George Is there any new comment about the ordination of someone which was conducted by IOC bishops.Dear respected fr., is there any proper stand for
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 7, 2007
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              Dear Fr. George

              Is there any new comment about the ordination of someone which was conducted by IOC bishops.Dear respected fr., is there any proper stand for IOC leadership or just like that, any one can ordinate anybody at any time. Why "pope of kottayam" not making any comment on the matter. What will be the stand of new bishop. Do he will be under Devalokam? We feel sympathy to your leadership in this matter. Dont forget one thing, Your church is carrying three guys who cheated us. They will follow the same if they get better chances.

              My god help ...........

              Lijo Mathew
              ID 3090
            • Babu David
              Dear Lijo Now they are three plus four.Most recenty they will ordain either a Catholicose & a Patriarch in India or in Europe. Regards Babu David #3269
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 10, 2007
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                Dear Lijo

                Now they are three plus four.Most recenty they will ordain either a Catholicose & a Patriarch in India or in Europe.

                Regards
                Babu David
                #3269
              • Lijo Mathew
                Dear Babu, This ordination just proved that they are not following the 1934 constitution, because it requires at least three motropolitans for such a function.
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 12, 2007
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                  Dear Babu,

                  This ordination just proved that they are not following the 1934 constitution, because it requires at least three motropolitans for such a function. Actually I am surprised, because the third one Nicolause was not present in the place. May be he is still sitting on the wall thinking that which side he has to jump.

                  Lijo Mathew
                  3090
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