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Re: Pope of India..!! or Pope of Kottayam ???

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  • Lijo Mathew
    Dear Fr. george If you want, Call Pope of kottayam or pope of devalokam, we don t care and after all it is a matter out of our way. but dont forget, how the
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 26, 2007
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      Dear Fr. george

      If you want, Call Pope of kottayam or pope of devalokam, we don't care and after all it is a matter out of our way. but dont forget, how the christians in kerala will look into the cheapest act. Sure, nobody will say anything because no one can give comment on this.
      Good Luck.
      Lijo Mathew
      # 3090
    • Fr.T.George
      Dear Abraham Kurien, My statement that We are one in Christ has been based on Chrstian love. Could you negate this fact? How would you justify the stance
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 27, 2007
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        Dear Abraham Kurien,

        My statement that " We are one in Christ" has been based on Chrstian love. Could you negate this fact? How would you justify the stance taken by jacobite church in having intercommunion with the Roman catholic church which upholds the doctrine of Immaculate conception of St.Mary? The intercommunion means one church and one faith. The over emphasis given to the veneration of St.Mary than what we ought to have to Christ, in the Syrian jacobite church is something indicative that you are in the same line of Latin catholic piety. I am afraid whether the syrian orthodox theologians support the special custom of Nada thurakkal, fasting after Holy Qurbana during the 8 days lent etc in the Manarcadu church or not. Of course, I have great respect towards St. Mary and Manarcadu pally. The usage of 'Nanma niranja mathave.... instead of 'Kripa niranja mathave' in some of the prayer books vogue in jacobite church and also the inclusion of a song with the term ' Amalolbhava mathave' used in a recently released video album in connection with Manarcadu church 8days Lent, all point to this fact. Perhaps, it may not be official?!!! But I have the evidence with me. Anyway, I infer that you people are also heading towards Rome as all roads lead to Rome. Correct me if I am wrong.

        With prayers,
        Fr.T.George, Ireland
        ================================================

        From the desk of moderators.

        The Syriac orthodox Church does not have any inter communion with Roman Catholic Church, rather it is only a pastoral care, in situations which now-a-days are frequent both because of the dispersion of our faithful throughout the world and because of the precarious conditions of these difficult times. Same type of agreements exists in other OO churches such as Armenian OC vs RC & Coptic OC vs Greek OC and as you may be aware, MOC is also discussing this possibility with Roman Church. However, the agreement is misinterpreted and spreads by the rivals of the Holy Syriac Church. The agreement wordings are as follows.

        9.Our identity in faith, though not yet complete, entitles us to envisage collaboration between our Churches in pastoral care, in situations which nowadays are frequent both because of the dispersion of our faithful throughout the world and because of the precarious conditions of these difficult times. It is not rare, in fact, for our faithful to find access to a priest of their own Church materially or morally impossible. Anxious to meet their needs and with their spiritual benefit in mind, we authorize them in such cases to ask for the Sacraments of Penance, Eucharist and Anointing of the Sick from lawful priests of either of our two sister Churches, when they need them. It would be a logical corollary of collaboration in pastoral care to cooperate in priestly formation and theological education. Bishops are encouraged to promote sharing of facilities for theological education where they judge it to be advisable. While doing this we do not forget that we must still do all in our power to achieve the full visible communion between the Catholic Church and the Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch and ceaselessly implore our Lord to grant us that unity which alone will enable us to give to the world a fully unanimous Gospel witness.

        For more details, please visit http://sor.cua.edu/Ecumenism/rc.html
      • Fr.T.George
        Dear Moderator, Thanks for your explanation. Dr.D.Babu Paul(Bar eetho!) once told me that while he was a regular communicant of the St.Peter s Jacobite
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 28, 2007
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          Dear Moderator,

          Thanks for your explanation. Dr.D.Babu Paul(Bar eetho!) once told me that while he was a regular communicant of the St.Peter's Jacobite syrian Orthodox church,Punnan road,Trivandrum on every sunday morning, he used to be a regular communicant of the Roman Catholic church at Palayam,Trivandrum as well in the very same evening. How would you justify this based on your explantion?

          Yours in Orthodox faith,
          Fr.T.George
          Ireland
        • Mathew G M
          I have a friend who is Indian Orthodox, I wont name him, who attend Holy Qurbana at an Indian Orthodox Church and also made a pilgrimage to Sabrimala. Does
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 29, 2007
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            I have a friend who is Indian Orthodox, I wont name him, who attend
            Holy Qurbana at an Indian Orthodox Church and also made a pilgrimage
            to Sabrimala. Does this prove that Indian Orthodox Church is in
            communion with the Hindu Religion ?

            Your argument that SOC is in full communion with the RC based on the
            actions of one of the members of SOC, sounds just as ridiculous as
            the above argument.

            In Christ,
            Mathew G M
            0929

            --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Fr.T.George wrote:
            >
            > Dear Moderator,
            >
            > Thanks for your explanation. Dr.D.Babu Paul(Bar eetho!) once told
            me that while he was a regular communicant of the St.Peter's
            Jacobite syrian Orthodox church,Punnan road,Trivandrum on every
            sunday morning, he used to be a regular communicant of the Roman
            Catholic church at Palayam,Trivandrum as well in the very same
            evening. How would you justify this based on your explantion?
            >
            > Yours in Orthodox faith,
            > Fr.T.George
            > Ireland
            >
          • Mathew G M
            Dear Fr George, You are accussing the SOC of leaning more towards Rome. From my understanding it is not an Orthodox tradition to use three dimensional statues
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 5, 2007
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              Dear Fr George,

              You are accussing the SOC of leaning more towards Rome.

              From my understanding it is not an Orthodox tradition to use three
              dimensional statues of saints in churches. We only use icons.

              If you click on the following link you can see a photo of Mar
              Osthathios a very senior bishop in the IOC installing a statue of St. Mary in Niranam church. I haven't been to Niranam church recently and dont know if that statue is still there.

              http://tinyurl.com/yo3mdm

              So does this prove that the Indian Orthodox Church is now accepting
              the Latin tradition of installing concrete statues of saints in
              churches? I don't think so.

              So please dont take an isolated incident of a song released in a
              cassette at Manarcadu and extrapolate and say the Holy Syriac
              Orthodox Church is going to end up a rite of the Roman Catholic
              Church.

              However if we can resolve all the christological controversies and
              have a union of Western (Roman), Eastern (Greek) and Oriental
              Orthodox Churches to have One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church;
              isnt it a good thing ?

              In Christ,
              Mathew G M

              --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Fr.T.George wrote:
              How would you justify the stance taken by jacobite church in having
              intercommunion with the Roman catholic church which upholds the
              doctrine of Immaculate conception of St.Mary? The intercommunion
              means one church and one faith. The over emphasis given to the
              veneration of St.Mary than what we ought to have to Christ, in the
              Syrian jacobite church is something indicative that you are in the
            • Lijo Mathew
              Dear Fr. George Is there any new comment about the ordination of someone which was conducted by IOC bishops.Dear respected fr., is there any proper stand for
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 7, 2007
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                Dear Fr. George

                Is there any new comment about the ordination of someone which was conducted by IOC bishops.Dear respected fr., is there any proper stand for IOC leadership or just like that, any one can ordinate anybody at any time. Why "pope of kottayam" not making any comment on the matter. What will be the stand of new bishop. Do he will be under Devalokam? We feel sympathy to your leadership in this matter. Dont forget one thing, Your church is carrying three guys who cheated us. They will follow the same if they get better chances.

                My god help ...........

                Lijo Mathew
                ID 3090
              • Babu David
                Dear Lijo Now they are three plus four.Most recenty they will ordain either a Catholicose & a Patriarch in India or in Europe. Regards Babu David #3269
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 10, 2007
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                  Dear Lijo

                  Now they are three plus four.Most recenty they will ordain either a Catholicose & a Patriarch in India or in Europe.

                  Regards
                  Babu David
                  #3269
                • Lijo Mathew
                  Dear Babu, This ordination just proved that they are not following the 1934 constitution, because it requires at least three motropolitans for such a function.
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 12, 2007
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                    Dear Babu,

                    This ordination just proved that they are not following the 1934 constitution, because it requires at least three motropolitans for such a function. Actually I am surprised, because the third one Nicolause was not present in the place. May be he is still sitting on the wall thinking that which side he has to jump.

                    Lijo Mathew
                    3090
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