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Correct Use - Rabban?

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  • Shinu Jesus Abraham
    Greetings to All What is the correct name - Rabban or Ramban in syriac language? If it is Rabban why do we follow is as Ramban? Shinu Jesus Abraham Member ID #
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 4, 2007
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      Greetings to All

      What is the correct name - Rabban or Ramban in syriac language? If it is Rabban why do we follow is as Ramban?

      Shinu Jesus Abraham
      Member ID # 2908
    • H.E Mor Athanasios Geevargis
      Dear Shinu Jesus Abraham, In Syriac it is Raban (some transliterate it as Rabban ). It is a consolidated / compounded word from two different Syriac words -
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 4, 2007
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        Dear Shinu Jesus Abraham,

        In Syriac it is 'Raban' (some transliterate it as 'Rabban'). It is a consolidated / compounded word from two different Syriac words -

        (1) "Rabo" which means: great, big, elder, teacher, etc. and
        (2) "Deelan" which means: ours. Therefore: Rabo Deelan = Raban (Rabban). 'Raban' in general parlance means 'our teacher' and also a 'Monk-Priest'.

        In our Malayalam language we have the following usages:

        1. Metrachan
        2. Achan
        3. Shemmachan

        In all these the common ending is 'achan'. This ending in general denotes simply 'a member of the clerical order/clergy'.

        Accordingly, 'Metrachan' would mean 'a member of the clerical order who is a 'Metran' or 'Metropolitan'; 'Achan' would mean 'a member of the clerical order who is a 'Priest'; and 'Shemmachan' would mean 'a member of the clerical order who is a 'Shemmas' or 'Deacon'.

        Similarly, 'Rambachan' or 'Ramban' is most likely an adapted form of 'Raban Achan' or 'Raban'. We do not know if there is any other root from which the word 'Ramban' / 'Rambachan' has come into use.

        Hope this would suffice.

        Thanks. May God bless you.
        Metropolitan Athanasios Geevargis
      • Rev. Dn. Bennet Kuriakose
        The correct word is Rabban itself....meaning My Teacher or as in Aramic- Rabbooni...... We just follow Ramban itslef....no problem in that...Ramban has
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 5, 2007
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          The correct word is Rabban itself....meaning 'My Teacher' or as in Aramic- Rabbooni......

          We just follow Ramban itslef....no problem in that...Ramban has become a Malayalam usage as 'Sooprand' for 'Superintendent' or 'Aashupathri' for 'Hospital'.....our language is not strict in that....we can use any of them if we know what we want to convey......

          Dn. Bennet Kuriakose
          3281
        • Shinu Jesus Abraham
          Barekmore Thirumeni Thanks for the very detailed clarification and thanks to Bennet Shemmachen for the logical thoughts. Requesting prayers Shinu Jesus Abraham
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 6, 2007
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            Barekmore Thirumeni

            Thanks for the very detailed clarification and thanks to Bennet
            Shemmachen for the logical thoughts.

            Requesting prayers

            Shinu Jesus Abraham
            Member # 2908
          • Dr. Thomas Joseph
            I see that this question has received thoughtful responses from H.E. Mor Athanasius Geevargis and others. I would like to provide some additional context. The
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 6, 2007
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              I see that this question has received thoughtful responses from H.E.
              Mor Athanasius Geevargis and others. I would like to provide some
              additional context.

              The term Rabban precedes monasticism in the Syriac Church, which
              arrived from Egypt only in the late 4th cent. Bishop Jacob of
              Nisibis is know to have founded a school in Edessa in the early 4th
              cent. where the Head of the school was called Rabban and he also
              occupied the chief exegete's chair (kursyo da-mpassqono). The chief
              disciplinary official as well as the librarian was the Steward
              (rabbayto). The school had other academic positions such as maqryono
              (instructor in liturgical reading)m, mhaggyono (elementary reading
              master) and badoqo (researcher, apparently in secular subjects). The
              students were called eskolaye (from the Greek schola). Mor Ephrem
              the Syrian was a mpassqono (Exegete) at this school. (See Robert
              Murray, Symbols of Church and Kingdom, [1975, Gorgias reprint 2004,
              p. 23]).

              Rabban is very likely to have later been associated with the
              monastic schools and then generally applied to any monk. Today
              Rabban typically denotes an ordained priest-monk. Novitiates are
              called sharwoye and the general term for monks irrespective of their
              ecclesiastical rank is dayroyo (inhabitant of a dayro - monastery).

              Even though in Syriac, today we write Raban (reesh beth nun) with a
              single beth, we know that the beth was in early Syriac doubled, i.e.
              Rab-ban. Even though it is written with a single beth, it is
              pronounced with hard spirantization (qushoyo); otherwise a beth
              preceded by a vowel would be pronounced soft (rukhokho). (See George
              Kiraz, Introduction to Syriac Spirantization, Barhebraeaus Verlag,
              Holland, 1995).

              Curiously, where such doubling occurs, in Malayalam, the beth is
              corrupted as "mb". Ramban is an example. Another is qambel for
              qabbel (accept).

              PS: At the N. American Syriac Symposium at Princeton in 2003, a Syro-
              Malabar priest presented a choir that sang many East Syriac songs.
              He also had the songs recorded on a CD which was on sale. On
              noticing the mis-transliterated Syriac title of the CD (Qambel
              Moran), Prof John Healey (Manchester Univ, and author of the First
              Studies in Syriac, Gorgias Press, 2005) remarked to a few of us that
              even though the Indian Syriac music was good, due to philological
              reasons he could not buy the CD!)

              Rgds,
              Thomas Joseph, Ph.D.
              Web Master, Syriac Orthodox Resources [ http://sor.cua.edu/ ]
              Tech. Editor, Hugoye: Journal of Syriac Studies [
              http://bethmardutho.cua.edu/Hugoye/ ]
              ID: 0202


              --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Shinu Jesus Abraham wrote:
              >
              > Greetings to All
              >
              > What is the correct name - Rabban or Ramban in syriac language? If
              it is Rabban why do we follow is as Ramban?
              >
              > Shinu Jesus Abraham
              > Member ID # 2908
            • Shinu Jesus Abraham
              Respected Dr. Thomas Joseph That was really informative. Thanks Shinu Jesus Abraham Member ID # 2908 ... H.E.
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 7, 2007
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                Respected Dr. Thomas Joseph

                That was really informative.

                Thanks

                Shinu Jesus Abraham
                Member ID # 2908


                --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Dr. Thomas Joseph wrote:
                >
                > I see that this question has received thoughtful responses from
                H.E.
                > Mor Athanasius Geevargis and others. I would like to provide some
                > additional context.
                >
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