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24061Re: Facts about the establishment of Catholicate of east

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  • Mathew G M
    Oct 9, 2012
      --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Dr. Leena Mathew wrote:
      > Reasons for excommunication of Augen 1:-
      >     a) No need to confess to priest. Believers can confess direct to Jesus either personally or as a group.
      --------------------------
      Dear Dr Leena,
      Can you please elaborate further on this?

      Believers always could confess directly to God. The confession before the priest is not a substitute for confessing directly before God. In the Holy Bible Epistle of St.James 5:16 we read: "Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed." So in olden times people used to stand infront of the congregation and confess to the entire congregation. Since the priest represents the congregation; confession to the priest is a substitute for confessing to the entire congregation. Confessing to the priest is a substitute for "confessing to each other" it is not a substitute for "confessing to God."

      I don't think the IOC ever said that confessing to the priest is not needed ever. I think their position was that a person could receive absolution "Hoosoyo" and partake in the Holy Qurbana. And now this is followed in the Jacobite Syrian Church as well.

      So please elaborate on how exactly is the IOC Devalokam practice different from the Jacobite Syrian Church.

      --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Dr. Leena Mathew wrote:
      > Reasons for excommunication of Augen 1:-

      >     b) The Church belief that the Holy Baptism is for the relief of birth sin is wrong.
      --------------------------
      Can you please elaborate what is birth sin ?

      By birth sin; are you referring to the guilt of 'original sin' which is the sin that Adam and Eve committed in Eden ? Please clarify. If that is the case, we donot inherit the guilt of original sin and the Holy Baptism is not for the forgiveness (relief) of the sin of Adam and Eve. We as a group discussed that in great detail in response to the discussion initiated by Mr. Thomas Mann.

      The understanding that the guilt of original sin is inherited is a Augustinian view. We Syriac Orthodox does not accept this view of original sin.

      --- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Dr. Leena Mathew wrote:
      > Reasons for excommunication of Augen 1:-

      >     c) Limiting the Holy sacraments to 7 is wrong.
      --------------------------
      I didnot understand this statement. We all learn that the 7 sacraments are:
      1. Baptism
      2. Chrismation (Mooron)
      3. Holy Qurbana (Communion)
      4. Holy Confession
      5. Holy Matrimony
      6. Ordination to priesthood
      7. Annointing of the sick with oil. (Unction)

      So if there are more than 7 sacraments, what is the 8th, 9th and 10th sacrament ?
       
      Of the reasons you cited; the above sounded the most serious matters. So it would be great if you can elaborate further on those and highlight the reasons for excommunication.

      In Christ,
      Mathew G M
      0929
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