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Re: Adoption of surname

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  • Ron Matviyak
    ... In that system, people did not own property outright, but a family ... Andrea, One of the basics of geneology is to identify your source so people know how
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 23, 1999
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      Andrea Vangor wrote:
      >
      > From: "Andrea Vangor" <drav@...>
      In that system, people did not own property outright, but a family
      > possessed the right to work a certain farm or allotment, which was then
      > accessible only to family members of that surname. It's easy to understand
      > why so many men changed their surnames from the late 18th century through
      > the 1840's, when the peasant system was operative.
      >
      > Anyway, I would appreciate any thoughts on this little finding.
      >
      > Andrea
      >

      Andrea,

      One of the basics of geneology is to identify your source so people know
      how you constructed the relationships and the veracity of the records
      used. That is an interesting comment above - how did you come to the
      conclusion that that is how the legal system worked at that time? I
      have no reason to doubt it, but am asking a reason to believe it! I
      have read a number of histories and have not found much that identifies
      the practice of law and only rarely do they identify specific property
      transfer rights or limitations. If you have something it would be
      interesting to see.
      Thanks in advance.

      Ron
    • Andrea Vangor
      The basic assumption I am making, at least until I find some evidence to the contrary, is that the rules of feudalism operated in Upper Hungary as elsewhere in
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 23, 2000
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        The basic assumption I am making, at least until I find some evidence to the
        contrary, is that the rules of feudalism operated in Upper Hungary as
        elsewhere in Christendom. The terms "serf" and "peasant" are technical
        words that describe very particular and quite distinctive states of life. I
        am assuming that when they are used about Slovakia, hopefully by people who
        understand the proper usage, they mean essentially the same thing that these
        words mean in Western European history. They do seem to mean the same thing
        when informed people describe, for example, the persistence of serfdom in
        Russia until the 1860's.

        I have lent out my favorite book on this subject, but I think it was _Europe
        and the Faith_, 1920, by the famous English writer Hilaire Belloc. He
        describes the transition in Europe, from the Roman Empire until modern
        times, from chattel slavery through serfdom through the peasant system
        through yeomanry. It's a fascinating book and explains many details about
        these different social arrangements and their economic implications.

        Belloc wrote about himself:
        "When I am dead, I hope it may be said:
        'His sins were scarlet, but his books were read.'"

        You may also want to check out his well-known _A Bad Child's Book of Beasts"
        which includes such gems as

        THE HIPPOPOTAMUS

        I shoot the Hippopotamus
        with bullets made of platinum,
        Because if I use leaden ones
        his hide is sure to flatten 'em.

        Andrea


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Ron Matviyak <amiak@...>
        To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@onelist.com>
        Sent: Saturday, January 23, 1999 9:42 AM
        Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Adoption of surname


        > From: Ron Matviyak <amiak@...>
        >
        > Andrea Vangor wrote:
        > >
        > > From: "Andrea Vangor" <drav@...>
        > In that system, people did not own property outright, but a family
        > > possessed the right to work a certain farm or allotment, which was then
        > > accessible only to family members of that surname. It's easy to
        understand
        > > why so many men changed their surnames from the late 18th century
        through
        > > the 1840's, when the peasant system was operative.
        > >
        > > Anyway, I would appreciate any thoughts on this little finding.
        > >
        > > Andrea
        > >
        >
        > Andrea,
        >
        > One of the basics of geneology is to identify your source so people know
        > how you constructed the relationships and the veracity of the records
        > used. That is an interesting comment above - how did you come to the
        > conclusion that that is how the legal system worked at that time? I
        > have no reason to doubt it, but am asking a reason to believe it! I
        > have read a number of histories and have not found much that identifies
        > the practice of law and only rarely do they identify specific property
        > transfer rights or limitations. If you have something it would be
        > interesting to see.
        > Thanks in advance.
        >
        > Ron
        >
        >
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