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Re: [S-R] Re: Slavs and Slavons

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    Dear Frank, I am a Slav or Slovan, in slovenian , czech or slovak language. In Polish it is Slowian. In croat or serb it is Slaven. In russian it is Slavjan.
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 30, 2003
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      Dear Frank,
      I am a Slav or Slovan, in slovenian , czech or slovak language.
      In Polish it is Slowian.
      In croat or serb it is Slaven.
      In russian it is Slavjan.
      Whatever grammar you take, when referring to the Slavs, you can not come to
      the word Slavonian.
      This word has been coined by the british by mistake. I know that this word
      is in Webster. I have it too. And several others. I know that this word is
      being used by english speaking people,but this does not prove, that it is
      correct or better say appropriate.
      I accept the word Slavonian only if it pertains to Slavonia proper. The rest
      is a mistake.
      Every slavic slavicist will tell you this.
      Some hair splitting:
      Slavonians ( people of Slavonia or Slavonci in their own language) sure are
      Slavs, but Slavs are not Slavonians ( not only) and never have been.
      Slavonia is a province in Croatia, and thus a very small part of the group
      of Slavic nations. Language in Slavonia is a croat language.
      Imagine this;
      Antonin Dvorak, a Czech, wrote a simphony with the title " Slovanske tance"
      By the followers of the established translation practices, it has been
      translated into " Slavonian dances", which is totally ridiculous. Dvorak
      must be turning in his grave.He never was in Slavonia and his work has
      nothing to do with it. And has also nothing to do with any liturgy.
      As a Slav I protest against using the term Slavonic for Slavs in general.
      I have been in touch with slavicists in US too. Sure, nobody wants to risk
      his career.
      Just don't change anything.
      I am deeply disappointed over such "scientists".
      Vladimir


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Frank" <frankur@...>
      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 3:24 PM
      Subject: [S-R] Re: Slavs and Slavons


      > In Slavic languages the word "Slav" is "Slowianie", "Slovene", or
      > something similar, with obvious similarities to word "Slowo" meaning
      > "Word".
      > "Slowianie" would mean "people who can speak", as opposed to the
      > Slavic word for Germans, "Niemcy", that is, "dumb", "people who cannot
      > speak".
      >
      > Looked in my Slovensko-angles^ki slovar (Slovene-English dictionary)
      > Slavonija = Slavonia
      > Slavon + ski = Slavonian
      >
      > Looked in my Slovensko/Anglicky' slovník
      > (Slovak/English dictionary)
      > (nothing)
      >
      > [1913 Webster Dictionary]
      > Slavonian \Sla*vo"ni*an\, Slavonic \Sla*von"ic
      > adj.
      > 1. Of or pertaining to Slavonia, or its inhabitants.
      >
      > 2. Of or pertaining to the Slavs, or their language.
      >
      >
      > For those academically oriented.
      >
      > "Some problems of the ethnogenesis of the Slavs and of the settlement
      > process of the Central Danubian Slovenes - Slovaks in the 6th and 7th
      > century "
      >
      > http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/texasczech/Slav%20Ori
      > gins/Sixth%20and%20Seventh%20Centry%20Slovaks.htm
      >
      >
      > Frank K
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.581 (20031217) __________
      >
      > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
      > http://www.eset.sk
      >
      >
    • Frank
      Dear Vladimir, As a Slav you protest against using the term Slavonic for Slavs in general. And Antonín Dvor^ák, a Czech, wrote symphonies titled Slovanske
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 31, 2003
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        Dear Vladimir,

        As a Slav you protest against using the term Slavonic for Slavs in
        general.
        And Antonín Dvor^ák, a Czech, wrote symphonies
        titled Slovanske Tance (plural) => Slavonic Dances (English)

        In Czech
        Slovan = Slav (E)
        Slovansky' = Slavic (E)
        slovansky' = Slavonic (E)

        so depending on language it could be Slavische tanze = danses slaves
        = Slavonic dances = Slovanske tance and be correct.

        In Slovene, Slován = Slav, Slavic, Slavonic (E)
        (right from the Angles^ko-Slovenski Slovár,
        Ljubljana, 1993)

        You are confusing linguistics with geoegraphy !

        I did not write the following words although I agree with them.

        "Please, note the difference between Slovenia, Slovakia and Slavonia,
        which is a part of Croatia. The origin of all these names is the same
        -
        derived from the name of SLOVO (= word), from which then the names of
        Slovinje,
        Slovinci, Sloveni, Slovenci, Slovani, Slaveni were coined.
        It is lovely and amusing to see how in Slovak language one says
        "Slovenian -
        Slovakian dictionary" : Slovinsko - Slovenski slovník.
        And in Slovenian language, the same would be Slovensko - Slovaski
        slovar
        ! "

        Scholars also write :
        Samo, first ruler of the Slavs, (A.D. 623-658) had unified the
        Slavonic
        tribes and
        this is the period when the names Sloven – Slovien – Slovak -
        Slovenka –
        slovensky
        were created.
        ---------------------------------
        http://www.hr/darko/etf/et01.html

        Frank K

















        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...>
        wrote:
        > Dear Frank,
        > I am a Slav or Slovan, in slovenian , czech or slovak language.
        > In Polish it is Slowian.
        > In croat or serb it is Slaven.
        > In russian it is Slavjan.
        > Whatever grammar you take, when referring to the Slavs, you can not
        come to
        > the word Slavonian.
        > This word has been coined by the british by mistake. I know that
        this word
        > is in Webster. I have it too. And several others. I know that this
        word is
        > being used by english speaking people,but this does not prove, that
        it is
        > correct or better say appropriate.
        > I accept the word Slavonian only if it pertains to Slavonia proper.
        The rest
        > is a mistake.
        > Every slavic slavicist will tell you this.
        > Some hair splitting:
        > Slavonians ( people of Slavonia or Slavonci in their own language)
        sure are
        > Slavs, but Slavs are not Slavonians ( not only) and never have been.
        > Slavonia is a province in Croatia, and thus a very small part of
        the group
        > of Slavic nations. Language in Slavonia is a croat language.
        > Imagine this;
        > Antonin Dvorak, a Czech, wrote a simphony with the title "
        Slovanske tance"
        > By the followers of the established translation practices, it has
        been
        > translated into " Slavonian dances", which is totally ridiculous.
        Dvorak
        > must be turning in his grave.He never was in Slavonia and his work
        has
        > nothing to do with it. And has also nothing to do with any liturgy.
        > As a Slav I protest against using the term Slavonic for Slavs in
        general.
        > I have been in touch with slavicists in US too. Sure, nobody wants
        to risk
        > his career.
        > Just don't change anything.
        > I am deeply disappointed over such "scientists".
        > Vladimir
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Frank" <frankur@w...>
        > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 3:24 PM
        > Subject: [S-R] Re: Slavs and Slavons
        >
        >
        > > In Slavic languages the word "Slav" is "Slowianie", "Slovene", or
        > > something similar, with obvious similarities to word "Slowo"
        meaning
        > > "Word".
        > > "Slowianie" would mean "people who can speak", as opposed to the
        > > Slavic word for Germans, "Niemcy", that is, "dumb", "people who
        cannot
        > > speak".
        > >
        > > Looked in my Slovensko-angles^ki slovar (Slovene-English
        dictionary)
        > > Slavonija = Slavonia
        > > Slavon + ski = Slavonian
        > >
        > > Looked in my Slovensko/Anglicky' slovník
        > > (Slovak/English dictionary)
        > > (nothing)
        > >
        > > [1913 Webster Dictionary]
        > > Slavonian \Sla*vo"ni*an\, Slavonic \Sla*von"ic
        > > adj.
        > > 1. Of or pertaining to Slavonia, or its inhabitants.
        > >
        > > 2. Of or pertaining to the Slavs, or their language.
        > >
        > >
        > > For those academically oriented.
        > >
        > > "Some problems of the ethnogenesis of the Slavs and of the
        settlement
        > > process of the Central Danubian Slovenes - Slovaks in the 6th and
        7th
        > > century "
        > >
        > > http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/texasczech/Slav%20Ori
        > > gins/Sixth%20and%20Seventh%20Centry%20Slovaks.htm
        > >
        > >
        > > Frank K
        > >
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
        email to
        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.581 (20031217) __________
        > >
        > > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
        > > http://www.eset.sk
        > >
        > >
      • Vladimir Bohinc
        Dear Frank, I am confusing what? Being myself a Slovene and living in Slovakia and speaking all Slavic languages and having travelled these countries for my
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 1, 2004
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          Dear Frank,
          I am confusing what?
          Being myself a Slovene and living in Slovakia and speaking all Slavic
          languages and having travelled these countries for my life time you are
          saying I am confusing things?
          You english speaking people may think, that the term Slavonic for Slavs in
          general is correct, because it is in your books. I of course disagree. I
          take this liberty.
          No need to try to convince me of anything, if you do not get the point I am
          making.
          You are sticking to your books and there is a mistake in them. Try to use
          some common sense and slavic grammar and of course geography too.
          Vladimir

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Frank" <frankur@...>
          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 5:56 PM
          Subject: [S-R] Re: Slavs and Slavons


          > Dear Vladimir,
          >
          > As a Slav you protest against using the term Slavonic for Slavs in
          > general.
          > And Antonín Dvor^ák, a Czech, wrote symphonies
          > titled Slovanske Tance (plural) => Slavonic Dances (English)
          >
          > In Czech
          > Slovan = Slav (E)
          > Slovansky' = Slavic (E)
          > slovansky' = Slavonic (E)
          >
          > so depending on language it could be Slavische tanze = danses slaves
          > = Slavonic dances = Slovanske tance and be correct.
          >
          > In Slovene, Slován = Slav, Slavic, Slavonic (E)
          > (right from the Angles^ko-Slovenski Slovár,
          > Ljubljana, 1993)
          >
          > You are confusing linguistics with geoegraphy !
          >
          > I did not write the following words although I agree with them.
          >
          > "Please, note the difference between Slovenia, Slovakia and Slavonia,
          > which is a part of Croatia. The origin of all these names is the same
          > -
          > derived from the name of SLOVO (= word), from which then the names of
          > Slovinje,
          > Slovinci, Sloveni, Slovenci, Slovani, Slaveni were coined.
          > It is lovely and amusing to see how in Slovak language one says
          > "Slovenian -
          > Slovakian dictionary" : Slovinsko - Slovenski slovník.
          > And in Slovenian language, the same would be Slovensko - Slovaski
          > slovar
          > ! "
          >
          > Scholars also write :
          > Samo, first ruler of the Slavs, (A.D. 623-658) had unified the
          > Slavonic
          > tribes and
          > this is the period when the names Sloven - Slovien - Slovak -
          > Slovenka -
          > slovensky
          > were created.
          > ---------------------------------
          > http://www.hr/darko/etf/et01.html
          >
          > Frank K
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...>
          > wrote:
          > > Dear Frank,
          > > I am a Slav or Slovan, in slovenian , czech or slovak language.
          > > In Polish it is Slowian.
          > > In croat or serb it is Slaven.
          > > In russian it is Slavjan.
          > > Whatever grammar you take, when referring to the Slavs, you can not
          > come to
          > > the word Slavonian.
          > > This word has been coined by the british by mistake. I know that
          > this word
          > > is in Webster. I have it too. And several others. I know that this
          > word is
          > > being used by english speaking people,but this does not prove, that
          > it is
          > > correct or better say appropriate.
          > > I accept the word Slavonian only if it pertains to Slavonia proper.
          > The rest
          > > is a mistake.
          > > Every slavic slavicist will tell you this.
          > > Some hair splitting:
          > > Slavonians ( people of Slavonia or Slavonci in their own language)
          > sure are
          > > Slavs, but Slavs are not Slavonians ( not only) and never have been.
          > > Slavonia is a province in Croatia, and thus a very small part of
          > the group
          > > of Slavic nations. Language in Slavonia is a croat language.
          > > Imagine this;
          > > Antonin Dvorak, a Czech, wrote a simphony with the title "
          > Slovanske tance"
          > > By the followers of the established translation practices, it has
          > been
          > > translated into " Slavonian dances", which is totally ridiculous.
          > Dvorak
          > > must be turning in his grave.He never was in Slavonia and his work
          > has
          > > nothing to do with it. And has also nothing to do with any liturgy.
          > > As a Slav I protest against using the term Slavonic for Slavs in
          > general.
          > > I have been in touch with slavicists in US too. Sure, nobody wants
          > to risk
          > > his career.
          > > Just don't change anything.
          > > I am deeply disappointed over such "scientists".
          > > Vladimir
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Frank" <frankur@w...>
          > > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 3:24 PM
          > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Slavs and Slavons
          > >
          > >
          > > > In Slavic languages the word "Slav" is "Slowianie", "Slovene", or
          > > > something similar, with obvious similarities to word "Slowo"
          > meaning
          > > > "Word".
          > > > "Slowianie" would mean "people who can speak", as opposed to the
          > > > Slavic word for Germans, "Niemcy", that is, "dumb", "people who
          > cannot
          > > > speak".
          > > >
          > > > Looked in my Slovensko-angles^ki slovar (Slovene-English
          > dictionary)
          > > > Slavonija = Slavonia
          > > > Slavon + ski = Slavonian
          > > >
          > > > Looked in my Slovensko/Anglicky' slovník
          > > > (Slovak/English dictionary)
          > > > (nothing)
          > > >
          > > > [1913 Webster Dictionary]
          > > > Slavonian \Sla*vo"ni*an\, Slavonic \Sla*von"ic
          > > > adj.
          > > > 1. Of or pertaining to Slavonia, or its inhabitants.
          > > >
          > > > 2. Of or pertaining to the Slavs, or their language.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > For those academically oriented.
          > > >
          > > > "Some problems of the ethnogenesis of the Slavs and of the
          > settlement
          > > > process of the Central Danubian Slovenes - Slovaks in the 6th and
          > 7th
          > > > century "
          > > >
          > > > http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/texasczech/Slav%20Ori
          > > > gins/Sixth%20and%20Seventh%20Centry%20Slovaks.htm
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Frank K
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
          > email to
          > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
          > > >
          > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
          > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.581 (20031217) __________
          > > >
          > > > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
          > > > http://www.eset.sk
          > > >
          > > >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
          SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.581 (20031217) __________
          >
          > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
          > http://www.eset.sk
          >
          >
        • nhasior@aol.com
          When we refer to something in the Chinese region, we refer to the neuter objects, such as rugs, pottery, culture as Oriental. It is an adjective describing an
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 1, 2004
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            When we refer to something in the Chinese region, we refer to the neuter
            objects, such as rugs, pottery, culture as Oriental. It is an adjective
            describing an object from the Orient. However, when we refer to the people from that
            region we refer to them as Asians. No longer do we "politically correctly" say
            Orientals. They can be further identified by country such as being Japanese,
            Chinese, Korean and on and on.
            After reading all of the emails, the Google searches and then my own hard
            copy of the Mirriam Webster two-volume dictionary on the term "Slavic, Slavish
            etc., my personal opinion is that the collective culture, region, language of
            the countries in that region can correctly be described as Slavic. The people,
            however, are best described by what they are such as Poles, Slovenes,
            Slovaks, Czechs, Russians, Georgians. Much as we would say Asians to describe the
            people collectively in Asia, I would suggest that the people in Poland,
            Slovakia, Slovenia, Russia, Czech Republic are collectively just called Europeans.
            East Europeans, Central Europeans, Western Europeans. Am I going off the deep
            end?? Paul M. where are you???
            Noreen


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Vladimir Bohinc
            Dear Noreen, Your conclusion is correct. I just saw something on the TV an hour ago in connection with the genetic (DNA) research that was done in England
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 1, 2004
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              Dear Noreen,
              Your conclusion is correct.
              I just saw something on the TV an hour ago in connection with the genetic
              (DNA) research that was done in England recently. The final word was, that
              the word Celt or Celtic or Celts has been used in the past much too freely,
              in many cases not appropriate.
              I agree completely. Some history will have to be researched and rewritten
              again.
              As long as we have the choice between Slavic and Slavonian ( as to the
              official Webster), I opt for Slavic.
              Slavs are a great family of nations, with common language roots.
              How the name Slav or Slovan came about is impossible to prove.
              One has to consider, that the history of Slavs in Central and Southern
              Europe leads us back to Ukraine.
              There was no Christianity then. Slavs had their own Gods.
              One of them was the Goddess Slava. (english Glory)
              She was the Goddess of victory. All slavic Gods are on her chest. She was
              the cellestial mother.
              I found some links, that might be of interest about this subject.
              http://www.winterscapes.com/slavic.htm

              http://www.occultforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1023

              http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/8933/bov.html

              http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/8933/bov.html

              Regards,

              Vladimir



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <nhasior@...>
              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 3:34 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Slavs and Slavons


              > When we refer to something in the Chinese region, we refer to the neuter
              > objects, such as rugs, pottery, culture as Oriental. It is an adjective
              > describing an object from the Orient. However, when we refer to the
              people from that
              > region we refer to them as Asians. No longer do we "politically
              correctly" say
              > Orientals. They can be further identified by country such as being
              Japanese,
              > Chinese, Korean and on and on.
              > After reading all of the emails, the Google searches and then my own hard
              > copy of the Mirriam Webster two-volume dictionary on the term "Slavic,
              Slavish
              > etc., my personal opinion is that the collective culture, region, language
              of
              > the countries in that region can correctly be described as Slavic. The
              people,
              > however, are best described by what they are such as Poles, Slovenes,
              > Slovaks, Czechs, Russians, Georgians. Much as we would say Asians to
              describe the
              > people collectively in Asia, I would suggest that the people in Poland,
              > Slovakia, Slovenia, Russia, Czech Republic are collectively just called
              Europeans.
              > East Europeans, Central Europeans, Western Europeans. Am I going off the
              deep
              > end?? Paul M. where are you???
              > Noreen
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.581 (20031217) __________
              >
              > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
              > http://www.eset.sk
              >
              >
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