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Re: [S-R] Partition of Czechoslovakia during WWII

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  • Frank
    ... balanced ... make the ... removing ... Slovak. ... Hungary ... that ... Slovak ... countries as ... suppose. ... Bill and Thomas, Can see both your
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 24, 2003
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      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@i...>
      wrote:
      > Thomas,
      >
      > I would agree from a technical point of view, so now we have a
      balanced
      > reportage.
      >
      > However I wouldn't elliminate the statement complete, for I could
      make the
      > same argument about the Czechoslovakia government administratively
      removing
      > the Rusyn ethnicity entirely and declaring them either Ukrainian or
      Slovak.
      > Ditto for Lemko/Ukrainian. Ditto for all ethnicities under the
      Hungary
      > Kingdom, where everyone was "Magyarized." It is interesting however
      that
      > under Czechoslovakia regime most of the locals (and many government
      > functionaries) referred simply to two regions "Czech lands" and
      "Slovak
      > Lands". "Czech lands" was still evident in writings from the
      countries as
      > late as 2002 in present-day Slovakia. Hard to break old habits I
      suppose.
      > See
      > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/history.htm#local
      > History of Ulic, Slovakia (PDF) (1996) - Translated to English
      > Below Snina Rock (1964) - Translated to English
      >
      > ______________
      > Bill Tarkulich

      Bill and Thomas,

      Can see both your viewpoints, but there can seldom be balanced
      reportage because the winners get to rewrite history.

      Czech-Bohemia (including Moravia 1849-1918) was a kingdom
      (10th century-1918) and part of the Österreichisch-ungarische
      Monarchie, or in English, Austro-Hungarian Monarchy.
      It was an Austrian Kronland (province)
      Both German and Czech languages were used.

      Mähren => Maehren => Marin => Moravia.
      Mähren was an Austrian Crownland located East of Böhmen (Bohemia).
      Its capital was Brünn (Brno).
      Mähren had been a separate crownland until 1849 when it became a part
      of Böhmen (Bohemia) together with Österreichisch-Schleisen
      (Austrian-Silesia).

      Many towns in Czechoslovakia had had both a Czech name and a German
      name.
      After WW 2, the Czechs renamed all the German place names to Czech
      names. They liked to give the same name to multiple locations so
      as to lose its German identity.
      Was searching for a town in the C^eské Bude^jovice (Budweis) area and
      I had finally eliminated four incorrect locations.
      Found the correct place only to discover that during WW 2 American
      bombers had destroyed this German town's records.

      And no Magyar or Czech will ever admit to there having been an
      early Slovak Kingdom before it was destroyed by an alliance of
      Magyars, Czechs and Germans in the 10th c.

      Frank K

      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Thomas Reimer [mailto:treimer@n...]
      > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:56 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Partition of Czechoslovakia during WWII
      >
      >
      > I have some bellyaches with the expression "Czech lands." Bohemia
      and
      > Moravia were inhabited buy native Czech and German populations (for
      once you
      > live in a place since the 12th century, you are local). The
      expresion "lands
      > of the Bohemian Crown" would be better.
      >
      > Thomas
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Bill Tarkulich
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:03 PM
      > Subject: [S-R] Partition of Czechoslovakia during WWII
      >
      >
      >
      > OK, class, pay attention now.....There will be a quiz.....
      >
      > Here's the deal.
      > Your villages were part of Hungary since about year 1000 until the
      end
      > of WWI, when Hungary was BUSTED UP (See the cool map at
      > http://parizs.tripod.com/trianon/trianonterkep.html )
      > In 1918 Czechoslovakia was formed from what had been called "Upper
      > Hungary", so this is where your villages went.
      > In 1938 Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia and broke it up as follows:
      took
      > the Czech lands/Bohemia/Moravia (so-called "Sudetenland") for
      > himself(Germany), gave the carpatho-Ukraine lands (present-day
      West
      > Ukraine), lands east of Snina (NOT to be confused with SZINA) and
      > southern fringe lands of Czechoslovakia (Hungarian majority) to
      Hungary
      > and created a new country "Slovakia", a Nazi Puppet-state. Well,
      Kassa
      > and Szina were in those southern fringe lands that Hungary
      annexed.
      > Hungary had been belly-aching for years during the inter-war
      period that
      > areas of majority Magyar (Hungarian) population rightfully
      belonged to
      > Hungary. Hitler didn't really care, so he let them take some
      slices
      > here and there.
      >
      > For now, this map
      >
      http://www.humboldt.edu/~rescuers/book/Chlup/chlupgif/czechmap2.html
      > showing the partitions isn't too bad, but I just shows the first
      stage
      > of the process.
      >
      > Hungary kept everything it annexed to the end of WWII when they
      > reformulated Czechoslovakia with the exception of the Ukraine
      piece. So
      > Kassa and Szina were in Hungary during WWII.
      >
      > It's a somewhat obscure piece of knowledge, only glancingly
      referred to
      > in WWII books, but essential for you to know in your research. If
      you
      > had family living in these villages during WWII, they were
      undoubtedly
      > conscripted into the Hungarian Army.
      >
      > Since we were too busy flirting with the opposite sex during
      history
      > class in high school, I've written the whole story in Cliff Notes
      > fashion, here http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/history.htm You
      really
      > need to understand this bit of history, if you want to be
      successful in
      > your search. Someday I'll scan in a map showing how Hitler
      partitioned
      > Czechoslovakia. Knowing who owned what when is critical to
      knowing
      > where to look for documents and what to look for.
      >
      > Bill
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: ROZ K ERHARDT [mailto:rkerhardt@j...]
      > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:45 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Sena & Kosice village history/info
      >
      >
      > Bill, Thank you SO much for the cool population and ethnicity of
      both
      > places. I am confused I thought that Kassa and Szina were in
      Hungary for
      > hundreds of years before WW II, and why therefore would they need
      to be
      > annexed during WWII ? Thank you so much for sharing your insight
      with
      > us, Rozalia
      >
      >
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