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Re: Saint Nicholas Church Chicago

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  • Frank
    Marcia, Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago IL (below) which could explain much ?
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 23, 2003
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      Marcia,

      Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago IL
      (below) which could explain much ?

      http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
      chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
      o

      Frank K
    • Brian Kettering
      Hello Frank, Thank you for looking at this. The church was located at 113th Place and State street, which is on the South side. I could not open the link that
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
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        Hello Frank,

        Thank you for looking at this. The church was located at 113th Place and State street, which is on the South side. I could not open the link that you very kindly included but I remember as a kid going to Goldblatts Dept Store. We usually took Milwaukee to Division Street and then went for long walks shopping.
        My relatives who are close to 90 who are still living were upset I went back this far.
        Reading between the lines I think something happen in WWII. My two other cousins who are also trying to find the family roots agree. We know for sure WWII stopped communication between USA and Europe relatives.
        I really appreciate your time and suggestions.
        Thank you
        Sincerely,
        Marcia Kettering

        Frank <frankur@...> wrote:
        Marcia,

        Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago IL
        (below) which could explain much ?

        http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
        chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
        o

        Frank K


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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Frank
        ... Place and State street, which is on the South side. I could not open the link that you very kindly included but I remember as a kid going to Goldblatts
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
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          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kettering <kettering5@s...>
          wrote:
          > Hello Frank,
          >
          > Thank you for looking at this. The church was located at 113th
          Place and State street, which is on the South side. I could not open
          the link that you very kindly included but I remember as a kid going
          to Goldblatts Dept Store. We usually took Milwaukee to Division
          Street and then went for long walks shopping.
          > My relatives who are close to 90 who are still living were upset I
          went back this far.
          > Reading between the lines I think something happen in WWII. My two
          other cousins who are also trying to find the family roots agree. We
          know for sure WWII stopped communication between USA and Europe
          relatives.
          > I really appreciate your time and suggestions.
          > Thank you
          > Sincerely,
          > Marcia Kettering

          Guess not.
          That was South Side around Calumet Park while Ukrainian village
          district was Near West Side.


          As I had replied to Bill Tarkulich I thought Twisfara/Tevischvalva
          were corrupted German spellings for a place name located near your
          G GF's Last Residence of Szolyva, formerly located in Bereg megye
          (county), Hungary and now located in Ukraine under the name Svalyava.

          The Josef Tikal in the 1904 ship manifest was born in what looks like
          Tosfalva ? rather than To.fahan to me.

          My candidate for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva was U'jtövisfalva ,
          meaning U'j (new) tövis ? falva (village) in Magyar and located just
          west of Szolyva above.
          I don't know its current name ?

          There were also Carpathian Germans living in this area.
          In 1945, the local German ethnic group Karpatendeutsche suffered
          genocide at the hands of the Russians. Many were killed at the death
          camps such as Svalyava or taken as slave labor to Siberia.

          Incidently, your relatives understood what language(s) ?

          How are you ? English

          Wie geht es Ihnen ? German

          Hogy Van ? Hungarian

          Ako sa más^ ? Slovak

          Jak se máte ? Czech

          Jak sie masz ? Polish

          Kaip gyvenate ? Lithuanian

          Kuidas läheb ? Estonian

          Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene

          Kà jums klàjas ? Latvian

          K A K C T E ? Serbian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
          (kahk steh)

          K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
          (k ah k d ye l a)

          R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
          (yah k s p r á v ee )


          Frank K

          > Frank <frankur@w...> wrote:
          > Marcia,
          >
          > Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago IL
          > (below) which could explain much ?
          >
          >
          http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
          >
          chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
          > o
          >
          > Frank K
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
          to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • William F Brna
          Frank, Trnovec was known as Tovesfalva, Ternowetz, Trnowecz in 1773, Toweschfalva, Trnowec and Drinowecz in 1786, Tovisfalva, Ternowacz and Trnowec in 1808,
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
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            Frank,

            Trnovec was known as Tovesfalva, Ternowetz, Trnowecz in 1773,
            Toweschfalva, Trnowec and Drinowecz in 1786, Tovisfalva, Ternowacz and
            Trnowec in 1808, Tovisfalu from 1863 to 1907, Tovisfalva in 1913 and
            Trnovec in 1920. There is no listing for U'jtovisfalva in Nazvy Obci
            Slovaenskej Republiky.

            Bill Brna

            On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:55:11 -0000 "Frank" <frankur@...>
            writes:
            > >
            > As I had replied to Bill Tarkulich I thought Twisfara/Tevischvalva
            >
            > were corrupted German spellings for a place name located near your
            > G GF's Last Residence of Szolyva, formerly located in Bereg megye
            > (county), Hungary and now located in Ukraine under the name
            > Svalyava.
            >
            > The Josef Tikal in the 1904 ship manifest was born in what looks
            > like
            > Tosfalva ? rather than To.fahan to me.
            >
            > My candidate for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva was U'jtövisfalva ,
            >
            > meaning U'j (new) tövis ? falva (village) in Magyar and located
            > just
            > west of Szolyva above.
            > I don't know its current name ?
            >
            > There were also Carpathian Germans living in this area.
            > In 1945, the local German ethnic group Karpatendeutsche suffered
            > genocide at the hands of the Russians. Many were killed at the death
            >
            > camps such as Svalyava or taken as slave labor to Siberia.
            >
            > Incidently, your relatives understood what language(s) ?
            >
            > How are you ? English
            >
            > Wie geht es Ihnen ? German
            >
            > Hogy Van ? Hungarian
            >
            > Ako sa más^ ? Slovak
            >
            > Jak se máte ? Czech
            >
            > Jak sie masz ? Polish
            >
            > Kaip gyvenate ? Lithuanian
            >
            > Kuidas läheb ? Estonian
            >
            > Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene
            >
            > Kà jums klàjas ? Latvian
            >
            > K A K C T E ? Serbian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
            > (kahk steh)
            >
            > K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
            > (k ah k d ye l a)
            >
            > R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
            > (yah k s p r á v ee )
            >
            >
            > Frank K
            >
            > > Frank <frankur@w...> wrote:
            > > Marcia,
            > >
            > > Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago
            > IL
            > > (below) which could explain much ?
            > >
            > >
            > http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
            > >
            > chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
            > > o
            > >
            > > Frank K
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
            > email
            > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Brian Kettering
            Hello Frank, I basically would have to pick German. On my great grandfathers headstone is ruhet unser I came up with something along the lines of Here at
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
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              Hello Frank,
              I basically would have to pick German.
              On my great grandfathers headstone is "ruhet unser"

              I came up with something along the lines of "Here at day's end"

              There is space for a word before and after "ruhet unser" and all the head stones around him are from the same time period 1926
              I tried translating some inscriptions on those headstones. Hier ruhet in frieden = basically here rests in peace
              ruhe sanft = rests softly
              The 1920 census said they spoke Bohemian and most of the people that lived around them spoke Polish and Swedish.
              My great grandmother wrote in a mixture of German and English. I know she lived on the side of a mountain as she really missed the root cellar that was in the mountain. Her favorite flower was Edelweiss. She really loved that she had been around to see them chose a Polish Pope, and when I was majoring in music, she once made the statement that Johann Strauss made wonderful music but he really wasn't a very nice man as he had as many legitimate children as illegitimate. She cooked dishes that I have found in Hungarian, Czech, Swedish and German cook books. Her second husband was from Vienna Austria.

              They also must have traveled to get to the church (24 plus blocks) as the address given when they applied for the marriage license was 820 East 89th Street, but I know he worked at the Pullman Car Factory.

              Thank you for all your input.
              I really appreciate it.
              Sincerely,
              Marcia Kettering




              Frank <frankur@...> wrote:
              Incidently, your relatives understood what language(s) ?

              How are you ? English

              Wie geht es Ihnen ? German

              Hogy Van ? Hungarian

              Ako sa m�s^ ? Slovak

              Jak se m�te ? Czech

              Jak sie masz ? Polish

              Kaip gyvenate ? Lithuanian

              Kuidas l�heb ? Estonian

              Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene

              K� jums kl�jas ? Latvian

              K A K C T E ? Serbian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
              (kahk steh)

              K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
              (k ah k d ye l a)

              R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
              (yah k s p r � v ee )


              Frank K

              > Frank <frankur@w...> wrote:
              > Marcia,
              >
              > Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago IL
              > (below) which could explain much ?
              >
              >
              http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
              >
              chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
              > o
              >
              > Frank K
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
              to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Frank
              ... and ... Obci ... Bill, Thanks. I was aware of your references because I also use Názvy Obcí Slovenskej Repububliky for the SLOVAKIA REPUBLIC. Tövisfalu
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
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                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, William F Brna <wfbrna@j...>
                wrote:
                > Frank,
                >
                > Trnovec was known as Tovesfalva, Ternowetz, Trnowecz in 1773,
                > Toweschfalva, Trnowec and Drinowecz in 1786, Tovisfalva, Ternowacz
                and
                > Trnowec in 1808, Tovisfalu from 1863 to 1907, Tovisfalva in 1913 and
                > Trnovec in 1920. There is no listing for U'jtovisfalva in Nazvy
                Obci
                > Slovaenskej Republiky.
                >
                > Bill Brna

                Bill,

                Thanks.
                I was aware of your references because I also use Názvy Obcí
                Slovenskej Repububliky for the SLOVAKIA REPUBLIC.

                Tövisfalu (Trnovec) was formerly located in Nyitra megye, Hungary and
                is still located in Slovakia (45 miles north of Bratislava)

                I try to use a Hungarian Gazetteer for Hungarian place names.

                There is also a DICTIONARY OF HUNGARIAN PLACE-NAMES called
                Magyar helységnév-azonosító szótár,in which you can find all the
                settlements of the Hungarian Kingdom (excluding Croatia) except one
                can't find this book now.

                But, U'jtövisfalu was never in Slovakia and was formerly located in
                Bereg megye, Hungary in the Szolyva district, and is currently located
                in the Ukraine.
                Perhaps that is why the prefix új, meaning 'new' was added to
                its Hungarian name.
                Still don't know its current name, only the area.

                Frank K
                >
                > On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:55:11 -0000 "Frank" <frankur@w...>
                > writes:
                > > >
                > > As I had replied to Bill Tarkulich I thought Twisfara/Tevischvalva

                > >
                > > were corrupted German spellings for a place name located near your
                > > G GF's Last Residence of Szolyva, formerly located in Bereg megye
                > > (county), Hungary and now located in Ukraine under the name
                > > Svalyava.
                > >
                > > The Josef Tikal in the 1904 ship manifest was born in what looks
                > > like
                > > Tosfalva ? rather than To.fahan to me.
                > >
                > > My candidate for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva was U'jtövisfalva
                ,
                > >
                > > meaning U'j (new) tövis ? falva (village) in Magyar and located
                > > just
                > > west of Szolyva above.
                > > I don't know its current name ?
                > >
                > > There were also Carpathian Germans living in this area.
                > > In 1945, the local German ethnic group Karpatendeutsche suffered
                > > genocide at the hands of the Russians. Many were killed at the
                death
                > >
                > > camps such as Svalyava or taken as slave labor to Siberia.
                > >
                > > Incidently, your relatives understood what language(s) ?
                > >
                > > How are you ? English
                > >
                > > Wie geht es Ihnen ? German
                > >
                > > Hogy Van ? Hungarian
                > >
                > > Ako sa más^ ? Slovak
                > >
                > > Jak se máte ? Czech
                > >
                > > Jak sie masz ? Polish
                > >
                > > Kaip gyvenate ? Lithuanian
                > >
                > > Kuidas läheb ? Estonian
                > >
                > > Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene
                > >
                > > Kà jums klàjas ? Latvian
                > >
                > > K A K C T E ? Serbian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
                > > (kahk steh)
                > >
                > > K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
                > > (k ah k d ye l a)
                > >
                > > R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
                > > (yah k s p r á v ee )
                > >
                > >
                > > Frank K
                > >
                > > > Frank <frankur@w...> wrote:
                > > > Marcia,
                > > >
                > > > Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area
                Chicago
                > > IL
                > > > (below) which could explain much ?
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
                > > >
                > >
                chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
                > > > o
                > > >
                > > > Frank K
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                > > >
                > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                > > email
                > > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > >
                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > > Service.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
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                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bill Tarkulich
                Current name in Ukrainian for U jtövisfalva is Dracsini or Dracsino. In 1910 this village, pop 298, had 15 Magyar, 197 German and 18 Ruthenians; 268 Roman
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 25, 2003
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                  Current name in Ukrainian for U'jtövisfalva is Dracsini or Dracsino.
                  In 1910 this village, pop 298, had 15 Magyar, 197 German and 18 Ruthenians;
                  268 Roman Catholic, 19 Greek Catholic, 7 Jews.

                  Bill Tarkulich

                  Frank writes:
                  My candidate for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva was U'jtövisfalva ,
                  meaning U'j (new) tövis ? falva (village) in Magyar and located just
                  west of Szolyva above.
                  I don't know its current name ?






                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Frank [mailto:frankur@...]
                  Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 5:55 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [S-R] Re: Saint Nicholas Church Chicago


                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kettering <kettering5@s...>
                  wrote:
                  > Hello Frank,
                  >
                  > Thank you for looking at this. The church was located at 113th
                  Place and State street, which is on the South side. I could not open
                  the link that you very kindly included but I remember as a kid going
                  to Goldblatts Dept Store. We usually took Milwaukee to Division
                  Street and then went for long walks shopping.
                  > My relatives who are close to 90 who are still living were upset I
                  went back this far.
                  > Reading between the lines I think something happen in WWII. My two
                  other cousins who are also trying to find the family roots agree. We
                  know for sure WWII stopped communication between USA and Europe
                  relatives.
                  > I really appreciate your time and suggestions.
                  > Thank you
                  > Sincerely,
                  > Marcia Kettering

                  Guess not.
                  That was South Side around Calumet Park while Ukrainian village district was
                  Near West Side.


                  As I had replied to Bill Tarkulich I thought Twisfara/Tevischvalva
                  were corrupted German spellings for a place name located near your
                  G GF's Last Residence of Szolyva, formerly located in Bereg megye
                  (county), Hungary and now located in Ukraine under the name Svalyava.

                  The Josef Tikal in the 1904 ship manifest was born in what looks like
                  Tosfalva ? rather than To.fahan to me.

                  My candidate for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva was U'jtövisfalva ,
                  meaning U'j (new) tövis ? falva (village) in Magyar and located just
                  west of Szolyva above.
                  I don't know its current name ?

                  There were also Carpathian Germans living in this area.
                  In 1945, the local German ethnic group Karpatendeutsche suffered
                  genocide at the hands of the Russians. Many were killed at the death
                  camps such as Svalyava or taken as slave labor to Siberia.

                  Incidently, your relatives understood what language(s) ?

                  How are you ? English

                  Wie geht es Ihnen ? German

                  Hogy Van ? Hungarian

                  Ako sa más^ ? Slovak

                  Jak se máte ? Czech

                  Jak sie masz ? Polish

                  Kaip gyvenate ? Lithuanian

                  Kuidas läheb ? Estonian

                  Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene

                  Kà jums klàjas ? Latvian

                  K A K C T E ? Serbian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
                  (kahk steh)

                  K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
                  (k ah k d ye l a)

                  R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
                  (yah k s p r á v ee )


                  Frank K

                  > Frank <frankur@w...> wrote:
                  > Marcia,
                  >
                  > Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago IL
                  > (below) which could explain much ?
                  >
                  >
                  http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
                  >
                  chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
                  > o
                  >
                  > Frank K
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                  to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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                • Frank
                  ... the head stones around him are from the same time period 1926 ... ruhet in frieden = basically here rests in peace ... that lived around them spoke
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 25, 2003
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                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kettering <kettering5@s...>
                    wrote:
                    > Hello Frank,
                    > I basically would have to pick German.
                    > On my great grandfathers headstone is "ruhet unser"
                    >
                    > I came up with something along the lines of "Here at day's end"
                    >
                    > There is space for a word before and after "ruhet unser" and all
                    the head stones around him are from the same time period 1926
                    > I tried translating some inscriptions on those headstones. Hier
                    ruhet in frieden = basically here rests in peace
                    > ruhe sanft = rests softly
                    > The 1920 census said they spoke Bohemian and most of the people
                    that lived around them spoke Polish and Swedish.
                    > My great grandmother wrote in a mixture of German and English. I
                    know she lived on the side of a mountain as she really missed the root
                    cellar that was in the mountain. Her favorite flower was Edelweiss.
                    She really loved that she had been around to see them chose a Polish
                    Pope, and when I was majoring in music, she once made the statement
                    that Johann Strauss made wonderful music but he really wasn't a very
                    nice man as he had as many legitimate children as illegitimate. She
                    cooked dishes that I have found in Hungarian, Czech, Swedish and
                    German cook books. Her second husband was from Vienna Austria.
                    >
                    > They also must have traveled to get to the church (24 plus blocks)
                    as the address given when they applied for the marriage license was
                    820 East 89th Street, but I know he worked at the Pullman Car Factory.
                    >
                    > Thank you for all your input.
                    > I really appreciate it.
                    > Sincerely,
                    > Marcia Kettering

                    Marcia

                    Pullman Works

                    http://216.239.37.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:nhwLZqifwbgJ:http://www.roo
                    tsweb.com/~ssghs/pullman.htm+Pullman+works+Chicago

                    Had lived in Chicago 1962-1968.

                    German
                    Ruhet = Rests
                    Ruhe Sanft = Rest gently
                    Frieden = Peace
                    Ruhet unser = Rests our , from unser,(poss. pronoun)

                    Polish
                    Tu spoczywa from spoczywac' 'to rest'
                    Here lies..

                    Czech
                    Zde odpociva = Here rests
                    Odpocivej V pokoji = Rest in peace
                    (letter c was actually diacritic (accented) c^ but I doubt
                    it was cut into the stone)

                    Frank K


                    > Frank <frankur@w...> wrote:
                    > Incidently, your relatives understood what language(s) ?
                    >
                    > How are you ? English
                    >
                    > Wie geht es Ihnen ? German
                    >
                    > Hogy Van ? Hungarian
                    >
                    > Ako sa más^ ? Slovak
                    >
                    > Jak se máte ? Czech
                    >
                    > Jak sie masz ? Polish
                    >
                    > Kaip gyvenate ? Lithuanian
                    >
                    > Kuidas läheb ? Estonian
                    >
                    > Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene
                    >
                    > Kà jums klàjas ? Latvian
                    >
                    > K A K C T E ? Serbian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
                    > (kahk steh)
                    >
                    > K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
                    > (k ah k d ye l a)
                    >
                    > R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
                    > (yah k s p r á v ee )
                    >
                    >
                    > Frank K
                    >
                    > > Frank <frankur@w...> wrote:
                    > > Marcia,
                    > >
                    > > Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago
                    IL
                    > > (below) which could explain much ?
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
                    > >
                    >
                    chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
                    > > o
                    > >
                    > > Frank K
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                    email
                    > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                    >
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                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
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                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >
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                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Frank
                    ... Dracsino. ... Ruthenians; ... Bill I still have questions. Dracsino/Drychyno/Drisna/Drysina /| P |/| C I H A (Cyrillic) is located 8 miles (13 km) south
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 25, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@i...>
                      wrote:
                      > Current name in Ukrainian for U'jtövisfalva is Dracsini or
                      Dracsino.
                      > In 1910 this village, pop 298, had 15 Magyar, 197 German and 18
                      Ruthenians;
                      > 268 Roman Catholic, 19 Greek Catholic, 7 Jews.
                      >
                      > Bill Tarkulich


                      Bill

                      I still have questions.

                      Dracsino/Drychyno/Drisna/Drysina /| P |/| C I H A (Cyrillic) is
                      located 8 miles (13 km) south of Mukachevo/Munkács, Ukraine.
                      Munkács/Munkachevo is located 14 miles distant from Svalyava (Szolyva)
                      so about 21 miles between Dracsino/Drychyno/Drisna/Drysina and
                      Svalyava with which Dracsino was supposedly linked.

                      Looked in 1882 Hungarian Gazetteer under Szolyvai járás (district),
                      no U'jtövisfalva.

                      1904 map of Bereg megye shows Szolyva district and Szolyva (town)
                      A Tövist was located about 4 km (2 miles) directly west of Szolyva.
                      Also shows A.(alsó =lower) Schönborn located 4 km south of Munkács and
                      a F. (felso"=upper) Schönborn to the NE.
                      (The Schonborn family during the 18th century came to control large
                      tracts of land and numerous Rusyn villages)
                      And a Derczen (Dercen) was located 8 km (13 miles) SW of Munkács.

                      1913 Hungarian gazetteer lists U'jtövisfalva under Szolyva járás
                      (district) and Derczen under Munkács district.

                      So what became of Tövist located 4 km west of Szolyva which was my
                      peg for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva/U'jtövisfalvaand if
                      Dracsino/Drychyno/Drisna/Drysina was actually called Derczen in
                      Hungarian.
                      How could the renamed U'jtövisfalva be Derczen, located 21 or so miles
                      from (now) Svalyava ?


                      Frank K

                      > Frank writes:
                      > My candidate for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva was U'jtövisfalva ,
                      > meaning U'j (new) tövis ? falva (village) in Magyar and located
                      just
                      > west of Szolyva above.
                      > I don't know its current name ?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Frank [mailto:frankur@w...]
                      > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 5:55 PM
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [S-R] Re: Saint Nicholas Church Chicago
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kettering
                      <kettering5@s...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > Hello Frank,
                      > >
                      > > Thank you for looking at this. The church was located at 113th
                      > Place and State street, which is on the South side. I could not open
                      > the link that you very kindly included but I remember as a kid going
                      > to Goldblatts Dept Store. We usually took Milwaukee to Division
                      > Street and then went for long walks shopping.
                      > > My relatives who are close to 90 who are still living were upset I
                      > went back this far.
                      > > Reading between the lines I think something happen in WWII. My
                      two
                      > other cousins who are also trying to find the family roots agree.
                      We
                      > know for sure WWII stopped communication between USA and Europe
                      > relatives.
                      > > I really appreciate your time and suggestions.
                      > > Thank you
                      > > Sincerely,
                      > > Marcia Kettering
                      >
                      > Guess not.
                      > That was South Side around Calumet Park while Ukrainian village
                      district was
                      > Near West Side.
                      >
                      >
                      > As I had replied to Bill Tarkulich I thought Twisfara/Tevischvalva

                      > were corrupted German spellings for a place name located near your
                      > G GF's Last Residence of Szolyva, formerly located in Bereg megye
                      > (county), Hungary and now located in Ukraine under the name
                      Svalyava.
                      >
                      > The Josef Tikal in the 1904 ship manifest was born in what looks
                      like
                      > Tosfalva ? rather than To.fahan to me.
                      >
                      > My candidate for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva was U'jtövisfalva ,
                      > meaning U'j (new) tövis ? falva (village) in Magyar and located
                      just
                      > west of Szolyva above.
                      > I don't know its current name ?
                      >
                      > There were also Carpathian Germans living in this area.
                      > In 1945, the local German ethnic group Karpatendeutsche suffered
                      > genocide at the hands of the Russians. Many were killed at the death
                      > camps such as Svalyava or taken as slave labor to Siberia.
                      >
                      > Incidently, your relatives understood what language(s) ?
                      >
                      > How are you ? English
                      >
                      > Wie geht es Ihnen ? German
                      >
                      > Hogy Van ? Hungarian
                      >
                      > Ako sa más^ ? Slovak
                      >
                      > Jak se máte ? Czech
                      >
                      > Jak sie masz ? Polish
                      >
                      > Kaip gyvenate ? Lithuanian
                      >
                      > Kuidas läheb ? Estonian
                      >
                      > Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene
                      >
                      > Kà jums klàjas ? Latvian
                      >
                      > K A K C T E ? Serbian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
                      > (kahk steh)
                      >
                      > K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
                      > (k ah k d ye l a)
                      >
                      > R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
                      > (yah k s p r á v ee )
                      >
                      >
                      > Frank K
                      >
                      > > Frank <frankur@w...> wrote:
                      > > Marcia,
                      > >
                      > > Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago
                      IL
                      > > (below) which could explain much ?
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
                      > >
                      >
                      chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
                      > > o
                      > >
                      > > Frank K
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                      email
                      > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                      email to
                      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Bill Tarkulich
                      FRANK - MY ANSWERS ARE INTERSPERSED IN YOUR QUESTIONS BELOW BILL T Bill I still have questions. Dracsino/Drychyno/Drisna/Drysina /| P |/| C I H A (Cyrillic)
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 25, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        FRANK - MY ANSWERS ARE INTERSPERSED IN YOUR QUESTIONS BELOW
                        BILL T

                        Bill

                        I still have questions.

                        Dracsino/Drychyno/Drisna/Drysina /| P |/| C I H A (Cyrillic) is located 8
                        miles (13 km) south of Mukachevo/Munkács, Ukraine. Munkács/Munkachevo is
                        located 14 miles distant from Svalyava (Szolyva)
                        so about 21 miles between Dracsino/Drychyno/Drisna/Drysina and Svalyava
                        with which Dracsino was supposedly linked.

                        Looked in 1882 Hungarian Gazetteer under Szolyvai járás (district), no
                        U'jtövisfalva.
                        ---> Perhaps the village was formed between 1882 and 1904.

                        1904 map of Bereg megye shows Szolyva district and Szolyva (town) A Tövist
                        was located about 4 km (2 miles) directly west of Szolyva.
                        Also shows A.(alsó =lower) Schönborn located 4 km south of Munkács and
                        a F. (felso"=upper) Schönborn to the NE.
                        (The Schonborn family during the 18th century came to control large tracts
                        of land and numerous Rusyn villages)
                        And a Derczen (Dercen) was located 8 km (13 miles) SW of Munkács.

                        1913 Hungarian gazetteer lists U'jtövisfalva under Szolyva járás
                        (district) and Derczen under Munkács district.

                        -->AGREED, but why is DERCZEN coming into this?
                        U'jtövisfalva (Magyar) = Uke Dracsini or Dracsino.
                        DERCZEN/DERCEN (Magyar) = UKE DRSZINA

                        So what became of Tövist located 4 km west of Szolyva which was my
                        peg for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva/U'jtövisfalvaand if
                        Dracsino/Drychyno/Drisna/Drysina was actually called Derczen in Hungarian.

                        -->UJTOVISFALVA was also called TOVISFALVA IN Slovak. There is no TOVIST,
                        at least not on a Magyar map.
                        If you are looking at the 1904 map
                        http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg , the place name has been
                        abbreviated, specifically the "falva" suffix has been left as "fa.", So if
                        you look carfully, you'll see "TOVISFA."
                        Often the "upper" and "lower" prefix was added or removed to villages over
                        time. On one map you'll see "Uj", next map a few years later you won't.
                        Just the way it goes. Perhaps the village was reformulated. It was not
                        uncommon for villages to either "disappear" or be consolidated into another,
                        over time.

                        How could the renamed U'jtövisfalva be Derczen, located 21 or so miles
                        from (now) Svalyava ?
                        --> I don't see why the village DERCZEN enters into this at all. DERCZEN
                        is DRSZINA or DERCEN in Ukrainian.

                        Sources: "Magyarország közigazgatási atlasza 1914", "Magyar
                        helysegnev-azonosito Szotar"
                        Bill
                      • Caye Caswick
                        Just looked at an aerial view of the corner of 113th Place and State Street -- no church --looks residential or vacant -- St. Nicholas Ukrainian Orthodox
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 27, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Just looked at an aerial view of the corner of 113th Place and State Street -- no church --looks residential or vacant -- St. Nicholas Ukrainian Orthodox church is in Ukie town, up north on Rice Street -- can you give me more information and I'll check into this for you? Thanks.


                          Caye



                          Frank <frankur@...> wrote:
                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kettering <kettering5@s...>
                          wrote:
                          > Hello Frank,
                          >
                          > Thank you for looking at this. The church was located at 113th
                          Place and State street, which is on the South side. I could not open
                          the link that you very kindly included but I remember as a kid going
                          to Goldblatts Dept Store. We usually took Milwaukee to Division
                          Street and then went for long walks shopping.
                          > My relatives who are close to 90 who are still living were upset I
                          went back this far.
                          > Reading between the lines I think something happen in WWII. My two
                          other cousins who are also trying to find the family roots agree. We
                          know for sure WWII stopped communication between USA and Europe
                          relatives.
                          > I really appreciate your time and suggestions.
                          > Thank you
                          > Sincerely,
                          > Marcia Kettering

                          Guess not.
                          That was South Side around Calumet Park while Ukrainian village
                          district was Near West Side.


                          As I had replied to Bill Tarkulich I thought Twisfara/Tevischvalva
                          were corrupted German spellings for a place name located near your
                          G GF's Last Residence of Szolyva, formerly located in Bereg megye
                          (county), Hungary and now located in Ukraine under the name Svalyava.

                          The Josef Tikal in the 1904 ship manifest was born in what looks like
                          Tosfalva ? rather than To.fahan to me.

                          My candidate for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva was U'jt�visfalva ,
                          meaning U'j (new) t�vis ? falva (village) in Magyar and located just
                          west of Szolyva above.
                          I don't know its current name ?

                          There were also Carpathian Germans living in this area.
                          In 1945, the local German ethnic group Karpatendeutsche suffered
                          genocide at the hands of the Russians. Many were killed at the death
                          camps such as Svalyava or taken as slave labor to Siberia.

                          Incidently, your relatives understood what language(s) ?

                          How are you ? English

                          Wie geht es Ihnen ? German

                          Hogy Van ? Hungarian

                          Ako sa m�s^ ? Slovak

                          Jak se m�te ? Czech

                          Jak sie masz ? Polish

                          Kaip gyvenate ? Lithuanian

                          Kuidas l�heb ? Estonian

                          Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene

                          K� jums kl�jas ? Latvian

                          K A K C T E ? Serbian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
                          (kahk steh)

                          K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
                          (k ah k d ye l a)

                          R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
                          (yah k s p r � v ee )


                          Frank K

                          > Frank <frankur@w...> wrote:
                          > Marcia,
                          >
                          > Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago IL
                          > (below) which could explain much ?
                          >
                          >
                          http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
                          >
                          chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
                          > o
                          >
                          > Frank K
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                          http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                          to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                        • Brian Kettering
                          Hello Caye, I appreciate your offer to look into the records, but it is a different church. It took a while but it was located from a city directory dated
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 27, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hello Caye,
                            I appreciate your offer to look into the records, but it is a different church.
                            It took a while but it was located from a city directory dated 1912. I took the address that the clergyman wrote on the marriage certificate from 1912 and found his name in the directory.
                            The church was started on March 30 1890. It's last mass was June 1973 and then it was closed. (not sure when it was demolished).
                            Thank you for your very kind offer though.
                            Sincerely,
                            Marcia Kettering

                            Caye Caswick <ccaswick@...> wrote:
                            Just looked at an aerial view of the corner of 113th Place and State Street -- no church --looks residential or vacant -- St. Nicholas Ukrainian Orthodox church is in Ukie town, up north on Rice Street -- can you give me more information and I'll check into this for you? Thanks.


                            Caye



                            Frank wrote:
                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kettering
                            wrote:
                            > Hello Frank,
                            >
                            > Thank you for looking at this. The church was located at 113th
                            Place and State street, which is on the South side. I could not open
                            the link that you very kindly included but I remember as a kid going
                            to Goldblatts Dept Store. We usually took Milwaukee to Division
                            Street and then went for long walks shopping.
                            > My relatives who are close to 90 who are still living were upset I
                            went back this far.
                            > Reading between the lines I think something happen in WWII. My two
                            other cousins who are also trying to find the family roots agree. We
                            know for sure WWII stopped communication between USA and Europe
                            relatives.
                            > I really appreciate your time and suggestions.
                            > Thank you
                            > Sincerely,
                            > Marcia Kettering

                            Guess not.
                            That was South Side around Calumet Park while Ukrainian village
                            district was Near West Side.


                            As I had replied to Bill Tarkulich I thought Twisfara/Tevischvalva
                            were corrupted German spellings for a place name located near your
                            G GF's Last Residence of Szolyva, formerly located in Bereg megye
                            (county), Hungary and now located in Ukraine under the name Svalyava.

                            The Josef Tikal in the 1904 ship manifest was born in what looks like
                            Tosfalva ? rather than To.fahan to me.

                            My candidate for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva was U'jt�visfalva ,
                            meaning U'j (new) t�vis ? falva (village) in Magyar and located just
                            west of Szolyva above.
                            I don't know its current name ?

                            There were also Carpathian Germans living in this area.
                            In 1945, the local German ethnic group Karpatendeutsche suffered
                            genocide at the hands of the Russians. Many were killed at the death
                            camps such as Svalyava or taken as slave labor to Siberia.

                            Incidently, your relatives understood what language(s) ?

                            How are you ? English

                            Wie geht es Ihnen ? German

                            Hogy Van ? Hungarian

                            Ako sa m�s^ ? Slovak

                            Jak se m�te ? Czech

                            Jak sie masz ? Polish

                            Kaip gyvenate ? Lithuanian

                            Kuidas l�heb ? Estonian

                            Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene

                            K� jums kl�jas ? Latvian

                            K A K C T E ? Serbian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
                            (kahk steh)

                            K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
                            (k ah k d ye l a)

                            R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
                            (yah k s p r � v ee )


                            Frank K

                            > Frank wrote:
                            > Marcia,
                            >
                            > Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago IL
                            > (below) which could explain much ?
                            >
                            >
                            http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
                            >
                            chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
                            > o
                            >
                            > Frank K
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                            to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                            Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Frank
                            ... different church. ... 1912. I took the address that the clergyman wrote on the marriage certificate from 1912 and found his name in the directory. ...
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 28, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kettering <kettering5@s...>
                              wrote:
                              > Hello Caye,
                              > I appreciate your offer to look into the records, but it is a
                              different church.
                              > It took a while but it was located from a city directory dated
                              1912. I took the address that the clergyman wrote on the marriage
                              certificate from 1912 and found his name in the directory.
                              > The church was started on March 30 1890. It's last mass was June
                              1973 and then it was closed. (not sure when it was demolished).
                              > Thank you for your very kind offer though.
                              > Sincerely,
                              > Marcia Kettering

                              Marcia

                              The University of Notre Dame Archives located in State of IN have
                              records of St. Nicholas Catholic church 1913-1973.
                              PPH C 127

                              Researcher would need to travel there.
                              Perhaps someone would volunteer to go to look.

                              With mixed ethnicity of your surnames had expected a
                              Ukrainian Orthodox Church, too.

                              Frank K

                              > Caye Caswick <ccaswick@y...> wrote:
                              > Just looked at an aerial view of the corner of 113th Place and State
                              Street -- no church --looks residential or vacant -- St. Nicholas
                              Ukrainian Orthodox church is in Ukie town, up north on Rice Street --
                              can you give me more information and I'll check into this for you?
                              Thanks.
                              >
                              >
                              > Caye
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Frank wrote:
                              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kettering
                              > wrote:
                              > > Hello Frank,
                              > >
                              > > Thank you for looking at this. The church was located at 113th
                              > Place and State street, which is on the South side. I could not open
                              > the link that you very kindly included but I remember as a kid going
                              > to Goldblatts Dept Store. We usually took Milwaukee to Division
                              > Street and then went for long walks shopping.
                              > > My relatives who are close to 90 who are still living were upset I
                              > went back this far.
                              > > Reading between the lines I think something happen in WWII. My two
                              > other cousins who are also trying to find the family roots agree. We
                              > know for sure WWII stopped communication between USA and Europe
                              > relatives.
                              > > I really appreciate your time and suggestions.
                              > > Thank you
                              > > Sincerely,
                              > > Marcia Kettering
                              >
                              > Guess not.
                              > That was South Side around Calumet Park while Ukrainian village
                              > district was Near West Side.
                              >
                              >
                              > As I had replied to Bill Tarkulich I thought Twisfara/Tevischvalva
                              > were corrupted German spellings for a place name located near your
                              > G GF's Last Residence of Szolyva, formerly located in Bereg megye
                              > (county), Hungary and now located in Ukraine under the name
                              Svalyava.
                              >
                              > The Josef Tikal in the 1904 ship manifest was born in what looks
                              like
                              > Tosfalva ? rather than To.fahan to me.
                              >
                              > My candidate for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva was U'jtövisfalva ,
                              > meaning U'j (new) tövis ? falva (village) in Magyar and located just
                              > west of Szolyva above.
                              > I don't know its current name ?
                              >
                              > There were also Carpathian Germans living in this area.
                              > In 1945, the local German ethnic group Karpatendeutsche suffered
                              > genocide at the hands of the Russians. Many were killed at the death
                              > camps such as Svalyava or taken as slave labor to Siberia.
                              >
                              > Incidently, your relatives understood what language(s) ?
                              >
                              > How are you ? English
                              >
                              > Wie geht es Ihnen ? German
                              >
                              > Hogy Van ? Hungarian
                              >
                              > Ako sa más^ ? Slovak
                              >
                              > Jak se máte ? Czech
                              >
                              > Jak sie masz ? Polish
                              >
                              > Kaip gyvenate ? Lithuanian
                              >
                              > Kuidas läheb ? Estonian
                              >
                              > Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene
                              >
                              > Kà jums klàjas ? Latvian
                              >
                              > K A K C T E ? Serbian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
                              > (kahk steh)
                              >
                              > K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
                              > (k ah k d ye l a)
                              >
                              > R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
                              > (yah k s p r á v ee )
                              >
                              >
                              > Frank K
                              >
                              > > Frank wrote:
                              > > Marcia,
                              > >
                              > > Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago
                              IL
                              > > (below) which could explain much ?
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
                              > >
                              >
                              chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
                              > > o
                              > >
                              > > Frank K
                              > >
                              > >
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                            • Brian Kettering
                              Hello, I was also expecting to find a non Roman Catholic Church prehaps Ukrainian Orthodox Church, but I wasn t sure. I appreciate all the input the list
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 28, 2003
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                                Hello,

                                I was also expecting to find a non Roman Catholic Church prehaps Ukrainian Orthodox Church, but I wasn't sure. I appreciate all the input the list members have given me. I have passed on the comments and suggestions to my cousins too. We are very excited as we are starting to find some answers now.
                                Thank you all for your time and expert advice.
                                Sincerely,
                                Marcia Kettering


                                Frank <frankur@...> wrote:
                                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kettering <kettering5@s...>
                                wrote:
                                > Hello Caye,
                                > I appreciate your offer to look into the records, but it is a
                                different church.
                                > It took a while but it was located from a city directory dated
                                1912. I took the address that the clergyman wrote on the marriage
                                certificate from 1912 and found his name in the directory.
                                > The church was started on March 30 1890. It's last mass was June
                                1973 and then it was closed. (not sure when it was demolished).
                                > Thank you for your very kind offer though.
                                > Sincerely,
                                > Marcia Kettering

                                Marcia

                                The University of Notre Dame Archives located in State of IN have
                                records of St. Nicholas Catholic church 1913-1973.
                                PPH C 127

                                Researcher would need to travel there.
                                Perhaps someone would volunteer to go to look.

                                With mixed ethnicity of your surnames had expected a
                                Ukrainian Orthodox Church, too.

                                Frank K

                                > Caye Caswick <ccaswick@y...> wrote:
                                > Just looked at an aerial view of the corner of 113th Place and State
                                Street -- no church --looks residential or vacant -- St. Nicholas
                                Ukrainian Orthodox church is in Ukie town, up north on Rice Street --
                                can you give me more information and I'll check into this for you?
                                Thanks.
                                >
                                >
                                > Caye
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Frank wrote:
                                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kettering
                                > wrote:
                                > > Hello Frank,
                                > >
                                > > Thank you for looking at this. The church was located at 113th
                                > Place and State street, which is on the South side. I could not open
                                > the link that you very kindly included but I remember as a kid going
                                > to Goldblatts Dept Store. We usually took Milwaukee to Division
                                > Street and then went for long walks shopping.
                                > > My relatives who are close to 90 who are still living were upset I
                                > went back this far.
                                > > Reading between the lines I think something happen in WWII. My two
                                > other cousins who are also trying to find the family roots agree. We
                                > know for sure WWII stopped communication between USA and Europe
                                > relatives.
                                > > I really appreciate your time and suggestions.
                                > > Thank you
                                > > Sincerely,
                                > > Marcia Kettering
                                >
                                > Guess not.
                                > That was South Side around Calumet Park while Ukrainian village
                                > district was Near West Side.
                                >
                                >
                                > As I had replied to Bill Tarkulich I thought Twisfara/Tevischvalva
                                > were corrupted German spellings for a place name located near your
                                > G GF's Last Residence of Szolyva, formerly located in Bereg megye
                                > (county), Hungary and now located in Ukraine under the name
                                Svalyava.
                                >
                                > The Josef Tikal in the 1904 ship manifest was born in what looks
                                like
                                > Tosfalva ? rather than To.fahan to me.
                                >
                                > My candidate for Twisfara/Tevischvalva/Tosfalva was U'jt�visfalva ,
                                > meaning U'j (new) t�vis ? falva (village) in Magyar and located just
                                > west of Szolyva above.
                                > I don't know its current name ?
                                >
                                > There were also Carpathian Germans living in this area.
                                > In 1945, the local German ethnic group Karpatendeutsche suffered
                                > genocide at the hands of the Russians. Many were killed at the death
                                > camps such as Svalyava or taken as slave labor to Siberia.
                                >
                                > Incidently, your relatives understood what language(s) ?
                                >
                                > How are you ? English
                                >
                                > Wie geht es Ihnen ? German
                                >
                                > Hogy Van ? Hungarian
                                >
                                > Ako sa m�s^ ? Slovak
                                >
                                > Jak se m�te ? Czech
                                >
                                > Jak sie masz ? Polish
                                >
                                > Kaip gyvenate ? Lithuanian
                                >
                                > Kuidas l�heb ? Estonian
                                >
                                > Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene
                                >
                                > K� jums kl�jas ? Latvian
                                >
                                > K A K C T E ? Serbian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
                                > (kahk steh)
                                >
                                > K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
                                > (k ah k d ye l a)
                                >
                                > R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
                                > (yah k s p r � v ee )
                                >
                                >
                                > Frank K
                                >
                                > > Frank wrote:
                                > > Marcia,
                                > >
                                > > Was St. Nicholas Church located in Ukrainian Village area Chicago
                                IL
                                > > (below) which could explain much ?
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:kzcplXUA0eIJ:http://www.ci.
                                > >
                                >
                                chi.il.us/Landmarks/U/UkranianVillageDist.html+Ukranian+village+Chicag
                                > > o
                                > >
                                > > Frank K
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                > >
                                > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                                > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > >
                                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                Service.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
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                              • ljoh734607@aol.com
                                Marcia I remember a St Nicholas church in Roseland and Pullman area But that area is in very bad shape so I don t know if that church is still there and they
                                Message 15 of 20 , Oct 28, 2003
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                                  Marcia
                                  I remember a St Nicholas church in Roseland and Pullman area But that area
                                  is in very bad shape so I don't know if that church is still there and they may
                                  be a church on the North or West side a lot of Ukrainas and Polish , Russian
                                  Czech lived there
                                  If iI can be more helpful let me know would help if you new the area you
                                  were looking for and what time period
                                  Les


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • ljoh734607@aol.com
                                  MARCIA THE CHURCH THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IS ON THE NORTH WEST SIDE OF CHICAGO . ST NICHOLAS 1906 A BYZANTINE CHURCH SERVING MAINLY UKRAINIANS 2238 RICE
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Oct 28, 2003
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                                    MARCIA
                                    THE CHURCH THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IS ON THE NORTH WEST SIDE OF CHICAGO . ST
                                    NICHOLAS 1906 A BYZANTINE CHURCH SERVING MAINLY UKRAINIANS 2238 RICE 6O622
                                    LES


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • ljoh734607@aol.com
                                    WELL MARCIA NOW YOU REALLY HAVE ME GOING mY FATHER AND GRAND FATHER AND AND GREAT GRAND FATHER ALL WORKED AT PULLMAN SO NOW WE ARE BACK ON THE SOUTH SIDE AGAIN
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Oct 28, 2003
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                                      WELL MARCIA NOW YOU REALLY HAVE ME GOING
                                      mY FATHER AND GRAND FATHER AND AND GREAT GRAND FATHER ALL WORKED AT PULLMAN
                                      SO NOW WE ARE BACK ON THE SOUTH SIDE AGAIN SO THAT ST NICHOLAS IS IN PULLIMAN
                                      AND I DON'T HAVE THE ADDRESS AND THAT GOLDBLATTS WAS PROBABLY IN EAST CHICAGO
                                      I DON'T REMEMBER ONE IN ROSELAND ONLY THE PEOPLES STORE THAT WAS ON STATE
                                      STREET.
                                      LES


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Brian Kettering
                                      Hi Les, I took Bill Tarkulich advice to examine these manifests. Friends beget friends. And in little villages, everyone s related! There are probably clues
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Oct 29, 2003
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                                        Hi Les,

                                        I took Bill Tarkulich advice to "examine these manifests. Friends beget friends. And in little villages, everyone's related! There are probably clues hidden in these."

                                        All the addresses my great grandfather gives ( from marriage certificate, declaration and petition) places them south of 91st Street and West of South Stoney Island Avenue right around the RR tracks. He worked for the RR and then the Pullman Car Works Factory. He made the front page of the Chicago Tribune on Tuesday July 20th 1926 as one of the eleven deaths in Chicago due to the heat wave.
                                        He was working at the factory and died enroute to the hospital.
                                        I didn't find out much on his traveling buddy Joseph Straka from SZOLYSA but their sponsor Andreas Polancsik wife Eugena and daughter Anna, arrived October 13 1910 from SVALOVA Hungary and ethnicity was Hungary, Slovak. Burnside is listed there which is a street in the neighborhood.

                                        Found a Rudolph KOCH address on the petition papers, which is the same as the 1920 census, which lists him as a carpenter for the RR with wife Elizabeth and son Edward, who arrived on July 12, 1904 from Isolna, ethnicity Hungary, Magyar
                                        A Ferdinand KOCH is also listed on the petition who could be from ERNESTHAZA
                                        and a Andrew Ferges is listed as a carpenter residing at 646 E. 93rd Street but I haven't located any more info on him.

                                        The addresses on the marriage certificate lists a Theodore Bonifas, clergyman at 11342 S. State which the 1920 census names as Saint Nicholas Convent School.
                                        Saint Nicholas church was located at 11335 S. State Street.

                                        I am not really good at this but, the church was probably 24 plus blocks away from where they lived. So I think maybe my great grandma knew people from around the church and my great grandfather knew people around the RR and Pullman factory.

                                        So I am still searching for hidden clues.
                                        By the way what were your surnames from around the Pullman area

                                        Sincerely,
                                        Marcia Kettering


                                        ljoh734607@... wrote:
                                        WELL MARCIA NOW YOU REALLY HAVE ME GOING
                                        mY FATHER AND GRAND FATHER AND AND GREAT GRAND FATHER ALL WORKED AT PULLMAN
                                        SO NOW WE ARE BACK ON THE SOUTH SIDE AGAIN SO THAT ST NICHOLAS IS IN PULLIMAN
                                        AND I DON'T HAVE THE ADDRESS AND THAT GOLDBLATTS WAS PROBABLY IN EAST CHICAGO
                                        I DON'T REMEMBER ONE IN ROSELAND ONLY THE PEOPLES STORE THAT WAS ON STATE
                                        STREET.
                                        LES


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                                      • Caye Caswick
                                        My first roommate worked for Goldblatts -- it was at 91st and Commercial -- in fact, she met her husband there. Unless there was another in Pullman, but
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Oct 29, 2003
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                                          My first roommate worked for Goldblatts -- it was at 91st and Commercial -- in fact, she met her husband there. Unless there was another in Pullman, but Pullman isn't far from 91st & Commercial. Just thought I'd interject -- especially since everyone seems to think it's been way too quiet lately.


                                          Caye



                                          ljoh734607@... wrote:
                                          WELL MARCIA NOW YOU REALLY HAVE ME GOING
                                          mY FATHER AND GRAND FATHER AND AND GREAT GRAND FATHER ALL WORKED AT PULLMAN
                                          SO NOW WE ARE BACK ON THE SOUTH SIDE AGAIN SO THAT ST NICHOLAS IS IN PULLIMAN
                                          AND I DON'T HAVE THE ADDRESS AND THAT GOLDBLATTS WAS PROBABLY IN EAST CHICAGO
                                          I DON'T REMEMBER ONE IN ROSELAND ONLY THE PEOPLES STORE THAT WAS ON STATE
                                          STREET.
                                          LES


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                                        • Frank
                                          ... beget friends. And in little villages, everyone s related! There are probably clues hidden in these. ... certificate, declaration and petition) places
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Oct 29, 2003
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                                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kettering <kettering5@s...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > Hi Les,
                                            >
                                            > I took Bill Tarkulich advice to "examine these manifests. Friends
                                            beget friends. And in little villages, everyone's related! There are
                                            probably clues hidden in these."
                                            >
                                            > All the addresses my great grandfather gives ( from marriage
                                            certificate, declaration and petition) places them south of 91st
                                            Street and West of South Stoney Island Avenue right around the RR
                                            tracks. He worked for the RR and then the Pullman Car Works Factory.
                                            He made the front page of the Chicago Tribune on Tuesday July 20th
                                            1926 as one of the eleven deaths in Chicago due to the heat wave.
                                            > He was working at the factory and died enroute to the hospital.
                                            > I didn't find out much on his traveling buddy Joseph Straka from
                                            SZOLYSA but their sponsor Andreas Polancsik wife Eugena and daughter
                                            Anna, arrived October 13 1910 from SVALOVA Hungary and ethnicity was
                                            Hungary, Slovak. Burnside is listed there which is a street in the
                                            neighborhood.
                                            >
                                            > Found a Rudolph KOCH address on the petition papers, which is the
                                            same as the 1920 census, which lists him as a carpenter for the RR
                                            with wife Elizabeth and son Edward, who arrived on July 12, 1904 from
                                            Isolna, ethnicity Hungary, Magyar
                                            > A Ferdinand KOCH is also listed on the petition who could be from
                                            ERNESTHAZA
                                            > and a Andrew Ferges is listed as a carpenter residing at 646 E. 93rd
                                            Street but I haven't located any more info on him.
                                            >
                                            > The addresses on the marriage certificate lists a Theodore Bonifas,
                                            clergyman at 11342 S. State which the 1920 census names as Saint
                                            Nicholas Convent School.
                                            > Saint Nicholas church was located at 11335 S. State Street.
                                            >
                                            > I am not really good at this but, the church was probably 24 plus
                                            blocks away from where they lived. So I think maybe my great grandma
                                            knew people from around the church and my great grandfather knew
                                            people around the RR and Pullman factory.
                                            >
                                            > So I am still searching for hidden clues.
                                            > By the way what were your surnames from around the Pullman area
                                            >
                                            > Sincerely,
                                            > Marcia Kettering

                                            Marcia,

                                            In 1910, a Eugena Polancsik, age 38, had imigrated with her daughter
                                            Anna, age 3 years 6 mos., to her husband Andreas (G) ? András (H)
                                            (Andrew) at 9940 Roland St, Chicago IL.

                                            Last Residence Isolna (misspelled) may have been Ilsova , formerly
                                            located in Bereg megye, Hungary and now located in the Ukraine.

                                            Mother and daughter were both born in Svalova which I expect was that
                                            same (we have previously discussed) Szolyva (Svalyava) located in
                                            former Bereg meye, Hungary and now located in the Ukraine.


                                            In 1908 a Ferdinand Koch emigrated to the US.
                                            He was going to an address in Elizabeth(port ?) NJ.
                                            Ferdinand was born in Ernesthaza, which may have been Erzsébetháza
                                            (meaning Elizabeth's house in Magyar), formerly located in Szepes
                                            megye, Hungary, and now Kravany, Slovakia

                                            Frank K

                                            >
                                            > ljoh734607@a... wrote:
                                            > WELL MARCIA NOW YOU REALLY HAVE ME GOING
                                            > mY FATHER AND GRAND FATHER AND AND GREAT GRAND FATHER ALL WORKED AT
                                            PULLMAN
                                            > SO NOW WE ARE BACK ON THE SOUTH SIDE AGAIN SO THAT ST NICHOLAS IS
                                            IN PULLIMAN
                                            > AND I DON'T HAVE THE ADDRESS AND THAT GOLDBLATTS WAS PROBABLY IN
                                            EAST CHICAGO
                                            > I DON'T REMEMBER ONE IN ROSELAND ONLY THE PEOPLES STORE THAT WAS ON
                                            STATE
                                            > STREET.
                                            > LES
                                            >
                                            >
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                                            >
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