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RE: [S-R] SZUSZKO

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  • Bill Tarkulich
    Szolyva is presently known as Sol , Slovakia. It also had been anemd Sookut, Solya, Schokut, Solya, Sokut, Szolya, Sola, Soskut, Sokut, Sol a and Sol.
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 23, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Szolyva is presently known as Sol', Slovakia. It also had been anemd
      Sookut, Solya, Schokut, Solya, Sokut, Szolya, Sola, Soskut, Sokut, Sol'a
      and Sol.
      http://mapy.atlas.sk/ about 20 KM SE of PRESOV, just NW of VRANOV NAD
      TOPLOU
      The Mormon's have the neighboring church records, I suspect the records
      were consolidated into a neighboring church.

      "falu" means "village"
      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/common_place_name_terminology.htm
      So you are probably right on with the village name. Many transliterations
      dropped the "z" from "sz" Magyar words entirely.
      ______________
      Bill Tarkulich




      -----Original Message-----
      From: Brian Kettering [mailto:kettering5@...]
      Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:41 PM
      To: S-R
      Subject: [S-R] SZUSZKO


      Hello,

      A while back (late August ) I posted a question on Szuszko for my great
      grandparents surnames TIKAL and STRAUSS:


      I was just wondering if I have enough information to try to locate records
      in TWISFARA or not and what language would I have to write in? I thought I
      had found my great grandfather JOSEPH TIKAL in the Ellis Island database.
      Place of residence To..fahan Date of arrival November 16, 1904 Age 18y Ship
      Ryndam Port of Departure Rotterdam I sent for his naturalization paper at
      the IRAD in Chicago, from the Superior Court of Cook County On his
      Declartion he says he was born in Szolyva Austria April 18,1885 , emigrated
      from Rotterdam Holland on the vessel Rotterdam, November 17,1905, last
      foreign residence was Twisfara Austria

      Petition for Naturalization
      says he was born April 18, 1884 in Twisfara Hungary, emigrated from
      Rotterdam Holland on the vessel Rotterdam, arrived in New York on November
      17,1905, His wife was born in Suszko Hungary. Became citizens November 17,
      1916

      On the ship records from Ellis Island he was traveling with a buddy from
      Szolysa

      His death certificate states he was born April 3, 1884 Birthplace of parents
      was listed as Austria Hungary

      When my great grandmother applied for her ss# she said she was born in
      Vienna, Austria Census records state they were from Hungary and spoke
      Bohemian. Family Bible says they both left from the port in Rotterdam, but
      doesn't list ships

      They were not married in a church, but I haven't check for baptismal
      records. I was checking for towns close together as they were supposed to
      have met 4 towns away from each other in Austria Hungary. Twisfara is 56.3
      miles SSW of Belgrade and Suszko (Suseoka) is 45.8 miles SSW of Belgrade.

      I also thought I had found my great grand mother in the Ellis Island data
      base
      STRAUS, Helena
      Hungary, Germany
      Szuszkofalu, Hungary
      August 28 1911

      If you take out the first z you have the shortened version of Suszko.

      Any input would be graetfully appreciated.
      Thank you
      Marcia


      Well, I found out that oral history was in error and that there were
      records in the Archdiocese of Chicago of a wedding on June 22, 1912 but I
      didn't realize that the cost for a genealogical certificate went up to $20
      so I had not sent enough money, but they were very nice an sent a letter
      with the following information: Joseph Tikal baptism was April of 1885,
      Tevischvalva South Hungary ( but no hits on the
      ShtetlSeeker) so I think it is probably spelled wrong.
      Helen Strauss baptism was May of 1891 Neudorf, South Hungary (many hits on
      the Shtetl Seeker) They say some of the names appear in Latin. I haven't
      received tapes from LDS yet from Saint Nicholas Church in Chicago.


      I was sort of leaning away form Vienna but now I think I might be around
      that area again.

      Any information is gratefully appreciated, as I seem to be going around in
      circles
      Thank you very much
      Sincerely,
      Marcia Kettering



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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    • Frank
      ... anemd ... Sol a ... NAD ... records ... transliterations ... Marcia, I have to disagree with Bill Tarkulich s location for Szolyva as being in eastern
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 23, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@i...>
        wrote:
        > Szolyva is presently known as Sol', Slovakia. It also had been
        anemd
        > Sookut, Solya, Schokut, Solya, Sokut, Szolya, Sola, Soskut, Sokut,
        Sol'a
        > and Sol.
        > http://mapy.atlas.sk/ about 20 KM SE of PRESOV, just NW of VRANOV
        NAD
        > TOPLOU
        > The Mormon's have the neighboring church records, I suspect the
        records
        > were consolidated into a neighboring church.
        >
        > "falu" means "village"
        > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/common_place_name_terminology.htm
        > So you are probably right on with the village name. Many
        transliterations
        > dropped the "z" from "sz" Magyar words entirely.
        > ______________
        > Bill Tarkulich
        >
        Marcia,

        I have to disagree with Bill Tarkulich's location for Szolyva as being
        in eastern Slovakia.
        Same place name spellings can be different in different languages.
        You are looking for Magyar place names listed in ship manifests which
        have changed over time to Ukrainian place names and for 3-4 villages
        located close to one another.

        Your Suszko was Szuszkó formerly located in Bereg megye, Hungary and
        now located in the Ukraine.
        Actually is was called Szuszkóújfalu, (Szuszkó + new + village) and
        this is where your G GM was born.

        Your Szolysa was Szolyva, another place formerly located in Bereg
        megye, Hungary and now located in the Ukraine where your G GF was
        born.
        So your G GF's Last Residence, and Szolyva and Szuszkó must have all
        been located close to one another.

        Szuszkóújfalu (H) is now called Siniak/Sinyak C |/| H R K (Cyrillic)
        and located in the Zakarpats'ka (oblast) region of the Ukraine.
        Sinyak is located 6 miles distant from Szolyva now called Svalyava
        C B A J| R B A (Cyrillic)

        These place are probably located 30 miles from the current Slovakia
        border as the crow flies.

        If I am correct getting their church records will be very difficult
        and costly and you will need to hire a commercial service who does
        this in the Ukraine.

        Frank K

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Brian Kettering [mailto:kettering5@s...]
        > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:41 PM
        > To: S-R
        > Subject: [S-R] SZUSZKO
        >
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        > A while back (late August ) I posted a question on Szuszko for my
        great
        > grandparents surnames TIKAL and STRAUSS:
        >
        >
        > I was just wondering if I have enough information to try to locate
        records
        > in TWISFARA or not and what language would I have to write in? I
        thought I
        > had found my great grandfather JOSEPH TIKAL in the Ellis Island
        database.
        > Place of residence To..fahan Date of arrival November 16, 1904 Age
        18y Ship
        > Ryndam Port of Departure Rotterdam I sent for his naturalization
        paper at
        > the IRAD in Chicago, from the Superior Court of Cook County On his
        > Declartion he says he was born in Szolyva Austria April 18,1885 ,
        emigrated
        > from Rotterdam Holland on the vessel Rotterdam, November 17,1905,
        last
        > foreign residence was Twisfara Austria
        >
        > Petition for Naturalization
        > says he was born April 18, 1884 in Twisfara Hungary, emigrated from
        > Rotterdam Holland on the vessel Rotterdam, arrived in New York on
        November
        > 17,1905, His wife was born in Suszko Hungary. Became citizens
        November 17,
        > 1916
        >
        > On the ship records from Ellis Island he was traveling with a buddy
        from
        > Szolysa
        >
        > His death certificate states he was born April 3, 1884 Birthplace of
        parents
        > was listed as Austria Hungary
        >
        > When my great grandmother applied for her ss# she said she was born
        in
        > Vienna, Austria Census records state they were from Hungary and
        spoke
        > Bohemian. Family Bible says they both left from the port in
        Rotterdam, but
        > doesn't list ships
        >
        > They were not married in a church, but I haven't check for baptismal
        > records. I was checking for towns close together as they were
        supposed to
        > have met 4 towns away from each other in Austria Hungary. Twisfara
        is 56.3
        > miles SSW of Belgrade and Suszko (Suseoka) is 45.8 miles SSW of
        Belgrade.
        >
        > I also thought I had found my great grand mother in the Ellis Island
        data
        > base
        > STRAUS, Helena
        > Hungary, Germany
        > Szuszkofalu, Hungary
        > August 28 1911
        >
        > If you take out the first z you have the shortened version of
        Suszko.
        >
        > Any input would be graetfully appreciated.
        > Thank you
        > Marcia
        >
        >
        > Well, I found out that oral history was in error and that there
        were
        > records in the Archdiocese of Chicago of a wedding on June 22, 1912
        but I
        > didn't realize that the cost for a genealogical certificate went up
        to $20
        > so I had not sent enough money, but they were very nice an sent a
        letter
        > with the following information: Joseph Tikal baptism was April of
        1885,
        > Tevischvalva South Hungary ( but no hits on the
        > ShtetlSeeker) so I think it is probably spelled wrong.
        > Helen Strauss baptism was May of 1891 Neudorf, South Hungary (many
        hits on
        > the Shtetl Seeker) They say some of the names appear in Latin. I
        haven't
        > received tapes from LDS yet from Saint Nicholas Church in Chicago.
        >
        >
        > I was sort of leaning away form Vienna but now I think I might be
        around
        > that area again.
        >
        > Any information is gratefully appreciated, as I seem to be going
        around in
        > circles
        > Thank you very much
        > Sincerely,
        > Marcia Kettering
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
        email to
        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Bill Tarkulich
        Good catch. I ll defer to Frank s reasoning. It s more plausible. ______________ Bill Tarkulich ... From: Frank [mailto:frankur@worldnet.att.net] Sent:
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 23, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Good catch. I'll defer to Frank's reasoning. It's more plausible.

          ______________
          Bill Tarkulich




          -----Original Message-----
          From: Frank [mailto:frankur@...]
          Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 7:19 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] SZUSZKO


          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@i...>
          wrote:
          > Szolyva is presently known as Sol', Slovakia. It also had been
          anemd
          > Sookut, Solya, Schokut, Solya, Sokut, Szolya, Sola, Soskut, Sokut,
          Sol'a
          > and Sol.
          > http://mapy.atlas.sk/ about 20 KM SE of PRESOV, just NW of VRANOV
          NAD
          > TOPLOU
          > The Mormon's have the neighboring church records, I suspect the
          records
          > were consolidated into a neighboring church.
          >
          > "falu" means "village"
          > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/common_place_name_terminology.htm
          > So you are probably right on with the village name. Many
          transliterations
          > dropped the "z" from "sz" Magyar words entirely. ______________
          > Bill Tarkulich
          >
          Marcia,

          I have to disagree with Bill Tarkulich's location for Szolyva as being
          in eastern Slovakia.
          Same place name spellings can be different in different languages. You are
          looking for Magyar place names listed in ship manifests which have changed
          over time to Ukrainian place names and for 3-4 villages
          located close to one another.

          Your Suszko was Szuszkó formerly located in Bereg megye, Hungary and
          now located in the Ukraine.
          Actually is was called Szuszkóújfalu, (Szuszkó + new + village) and
          this is where your G GM was born.

          Your Szolysa was Szolyva, another place formerly located in Bereg
          megye, Hungary and now located in the Ukraine where your G GF was
          born.
          So your G GF's Last Residence, and Szolyva and Szuszkó must have all
          been located close to one another.

          Szuszkóújfalu (H) is now called Siniak/Sinyak C |/| H R K (Cyrillic) and
          located in the Zakarpats'ka (oblast) region of the Ukraine. Sinyak is
          located 6 miles distant from Szolyva now called Svalyava
          C B A J| R B A (Cyrillic)

          These place are probably located 30 miles from the current Slovakia
          border as the crow flies.

          If I am correct getting their church records will be very difficult
          and costly and you will need to hire a commercial service who does this in
          the Ukraine.

          Frank K

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Brian Kettering [mailto:kettering5@s...]
          > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:41 PM
          > To: S-R
          > Subject: [S-R] SZUSZKO
          >
          >
          > Hello,
          >
          > A while back (late August ) I posted a question on Szuszko for my
          great
          > grandparents surnames TIKAL and STRAUSS:
          >
          >
          > I was just wondering if I have enough information to try to locate
          records
          > in TWISFARA or not and what language would I have to write in? I
          thought I
          > had found my great grandfather JOSEPH TIKAL in the Ellis Island
          database.
          > Place of residence To..fahan Date of arrival November 16, 1904 Age
          18y Ship
          > Ryndam Port of Departure Rotterdam I sent for his naturalization
          paper at
          > the IRAD in Chicago, from the Superior Court of Cook County On his
          > Declartion he says he was born in Szolyva Austria April 18,1885 ,
          emigrated
          > from Rotterdam Holland on the vessel Rotterdam, November 17,1905,
          last
          > foreign residence was Twisfara Austria
          >
          > Petition for Naturalization
          > says he was born April 18, 1884 in Twisfara Hungary, emigrated from
          > Rotterdam Holland on the vessel Rotterdam, arrived in New York on
          November
          > 17,1905, His wife was born in Suszko Hungary. Became citizens
          November 17,
          > 1916
          >
          > On the ship records from Ellis Island he was traveling with a buddy
          from
          > Szolysa
          >
          > His death certificate states he was born April 3, 1884 Birthplace of
          parents
          > was listed as Austria Hungary
          >
          > When my great grandmother applied for her ss# she said she was born
          in
          > Vienna, Austria Census records state they were from Hungary and
          spoke
          > Bohemian. Family Bible says they both left from the port in
          Rotterdam, but
          > doesn't list ships
          >
          > They were not married in a church, but I haven't check for baptismal
          > records. I was checking for towns close together as they were
          supposed to
          > have met 4 towns away from each other in Austria Hungary. Twisfara
          is 56.3
          > miles SSW of Belgrade and Suszko (Suseoka) is 45.8 miles SSW of
          Belgrade.
          >
          > I also thought I had found my great grand mother in the Ellis Island
          data
          > base
          > STRAUS, Helena
          > Hungary, Germany
          > Szuszkofalu, Hungary
          > August 28 1911
          >
          > If you take out the first z you have the shortened version of
          Suszko.
          >
          > Any input would be graetfully appreciated.
          > Thank you
          > Marcia
          >
          >
          > Well, I found out that oral history was in error and that there
          were
          > records in the Archdiocese of Chicago of a wedding on June 22, 1912
          but I
          > didn't realize that the cost for a genealogical certificate went up
          to $20
          > so I had not sent enough money, but they were very nice an sent a
          letter
          > with the following information: Joseph Tikal baptism was April of
          1885,
          > Tevischvalva South Hungary ( but no hits on the
          > ShtetlSeeker) so I think it is probably spelled wrong.
          > Helen Strauss baptism was May of 1891 Neudorf, South Hungary (many
          hits on
          > the Shtetl Seeker) They say some of the names appear in Latin. I
          haven't
          > received tapes from LDS yet from Saint Nicholas Church in Chicago.
          >
          >
          > I was sort of leaning away form Vienna but now I think I might be
          around
          > that area again.
          >
          > Any information is gratefully appreciated, as I seem to be going
          around in
          > circles
          > Thank you very much
          > Sincerely,
          > Marcia Kettering
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
          email to
          > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



          To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
          SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Frank
          ... Bill, I have a candidate to offer for Twisfara/Tevischvalva which have been be a corrupted German spelling. Its Hungarian name was U jtövisfalva and this
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 23, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@i...>
            wrote:
            > Good catch. I'll defer to Frank's reasoning. It's more plausible.
            >
            > ______________
            > Bill Tarkulich

            Bill,

            I have a candidate to offer for Twisfara/Tevischvalva which have been
            be a corrupted German spelling.

            Its Hungarian name was U'jtövisfalva and this village was located just
            west of Svaljava (former Hungarian Szolyva district) now located in
            the Ukraine.
            I don't know its current name ?

            Karpatho-Ukraine was occupied by the Red Army and annexed in 1945 to
            the Soviet Union and it has been part of the independent Republic
            Ukraine since 1991.
            Karpatendeutsche (Carpathian Germans) had settled in the
            Munkács/Munkacz (H) Mukac^evo (Sk) Munkatsch (G) area of the former
            Bereg megye.
            In 1945, the local Germans, a small and inoffensive ethnic group,
            suffered genocide. Many were killed in death camps such as Svaljava,
            or taken as slave labor to Siberia.
            Mukac^evo itself is located just 14 miles distant from Szolyva
            (Svalyava)now inthe Ukraine.

            Helena Strauss was baptised in 1891 in Neudorf which I had written
            was the German name for Spis^ska' Nova' Ves because I had expected
            Slovakia. Now not so sure.
            Perhaps there was another Neudorf located near Szuszko'u'jfalu in
            Bereg megye.


            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Frank [mailto:frankur@w...]
            > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 7:19 PM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [S-R] SZUSZKO
            >
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@i...>
            > wrote:
            > > Szolyva is presently known as Sol', Slovakia. It also had been
            > anemd
            > > Sookut, Solya, Schokut, Solya, Sokut, Szolya, Sola, Soskut,
            Sokut,
            > Sol'a
            > > and Sol.
            > > http://mapy.atlas.sk/ about 20 KM SE of PRESOV, just NW of VRANOV
            > NAD
            > > TOPLOU
            > > The Mormon's have the neighboring church records, I suspect the
            > records
            > > were consolidated into a neighboring church.
            > >
            > > "falu" means "village"
            > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/common_place_name_terminology.htm
            > > So you are probably right on with the village name. Many
            > transliterations
            > > dropped the "z" from "sz" Magyar words entirely. ______________
            > > Bill Tarkulich
            > >
            > Marcia,
            >
            > I have to disagree with Bill Tarkulich's location for Szolyva as
            being
            > in eastern Slovakia.
            > Same place name spellings can be different in different languages.
            You are
            > looking for Magyar place names listed in ship manifests which have
            changed
            > over time to Ukrainian place names and for 3-4 villages
            > located close to one another.
            >
            > Your Suszko was Szuszkó formerly located in Bereg megye, Hungary and
            > now located in the Ukraine.
            > Actually is was called Szuszkóújfalu, (Szuszkó + new + village) and
            > this is where your G GM was born.
            >
            > Your Szolysa was Szolyva, another place formerly located in Bereg
            > megye, Hungary and now located in the Ukraine where your G GF was
            > born.
            > So your G GF's Last Residence, and Szolyva and Szuszkó must have all
            > been located close to one another.
            >
            > Szuszkóújfalu (H) is now called Siniak/Sinyak C |/| H R K
            (Cyrillic) and
            > located in the Zakarpats'ka (oblast) region of the Ukraine. Sinyak
            is
            > located 6 miles distant from Szolyva now called Svalyava
            > C B A J| R B A (Cyrillic)
            >
            > These place are probably located 30 miles from the current Slovakia
            > border as the crow flies.
            >
            > If I am correct getting their church records will be very difficult
            > and costly and you will need to hire a commercial service who does
            this in
            > the Ukraine.
            >
            > Frank K
            >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: Brian Kettering [mailto:kettering5@s...]
            > > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:41 PM
            > > To: S-R
            > > Subject: [S-R] SZUSZKO
            > >
            > >
            > > Hello,
            > >
            > > A while back (late August ) I posted a question on Szuszko for my
            > great
            > > grandparents surnames TIKAL and STRAUSS:
            > >
            > >
            > > I was just wondering if I have enough information to try to locate
            > records
            > > in TWISFARA or not and what language would I have to write in? I
            > thought I
            > > had found my great grandfather JOSEPH TIKAL in the Ellis Island
            > database.
            > > Place of residence To..fahan Date of arrival November 16, 1904 Age
            > 18y Ship
            > > Ryndam Port of Departure Rotterdam I sent for his naturalization
            > paper at
            > > the IRAD in Chicago, from the Superior Court of Cook County On his
            > > Declartion he says he was born in Szolyva Austria April 18,1885 ,
            > emigrated
            > > from Rotterdam Holland on the vessel Rotterdam, November 17,1905,
            > last
            > > foreign residence was Twisfara Austria
            > >
            > > Petition for Naturalization
            > > says he was born April 18, 1884 in Twisfara Hungary, emigrated
            from
            > > Rotterdam Holland on the vessel Rotterdam, arrived in New York on
            > November
            > > 17,1905, His wife was born in Suszko Hungary. Became citizens
            > November 17,
            > > 1916
            > >
            > > On the ship records from Ellis Island he was traveling with a
            buddy
            > from
            > > Szolysa
            > >
            > > His death certificate states he was born April 3, 1884 Birthplace
            of
            > parents
            > > was listed as Austria Hungary
            > >
            > > When my great grandmother applied for her ss# she said she was
            born
            > in
            > > Vienna, Austria Census records state they were from Hungary and
            > spoke
            > > Bohemian. Family Bible says they both left from the port in
            > Rotterdam, but
            > > doesn't list ships
            > >
            > > They were not married in a church, but I haven't check for
            baptismal
            > > records. I was checking for towns close together as they were
            > supposed to
            > > have met 4 towns away from each other in Austria Hungary. Twisfara
            > is 56.3
            > > miles SSW of Belgrade and Suszko (Suseoka) is 45.8 miles SSW of
            > Belgrade.
            > >
            > > I also thought I had found my great grand mother in the Ellis
            Island
            > data
            > > base
            > > STRAUS, Helena
            > > Hungary, Germany
            > > Szuszkofalu, Hungary
            > > August 28 1911
            > >
            > > If you take out the first z you have the shortened version of
            > Suszko.
            > >
            > > Any input would be graetfully appreciated.
            > > Thank you
            > > Marcia
            > >
            > >
            > > Well, I found out that oral history was in error and that there
            > were
            > > records in the Archdiocese of Chicago of a wedding on June 22,
            1912
            > but I
            > > didn't realize that the cost for a genealogical certificate went
            up
            > to $20
            > > so I had not sent enough money, but they were very nice an sent a
            > letter
            > > with the following information: Joseph Tikal baptism was April of
            > 1885,
            > > Tevischvalva South Hungary ( but no hits on the
            > > ShtetlSeeker) so I think it is probably spelled wrong.
            > > Helen Strauss baptism was May of 1891 Neudorf, South Hungary (many
            > hits on
            > > the Shtetl Seeker) They say some of the names appear in Latin. I
            > haven't
            > > received tapes from LDS yet from Saint Nicholas Church in Chicago.
            > >
            > >
            > > I was sort of leaning away form Vienna but now I think I might be
            > around
            > > that area again.
            > >
            > > Any information is gratefully appreciated, as I seem to be going
            > around in
            > > circles
            > > Thank you very much
            > > Sincerely,
            > > Marcia Kettering
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
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