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RE: Scribbles

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  • Gregory J. Kopchak
    Andrea: The Slovak Pride index is now on line at http://www.iarelative.com/slovakpride/ if your looking for something to do. The index has 10,000 Slovak names
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 31, 1999
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      Andrea:

      The Slovak Pride index is now on line at
      http://www.iarelative.com/slovakpride/ if your looking for something to do.
      The index has 10,000 Slovak names and village of origin.

      The Slovak Heritage and Folklore Society International can also put you in
      touch with the person researching the surnames.

      We had real Slovak Borivicka (Juniper Brandy) here tonight.

      Vela a stastia v novom roku!

      Greg Kopchak
      It's All Relative


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Andrea Vangor [mailto:drav@...]
      Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 1:04 AM
      To: Slovak Roots
      Subject: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Scribbles


      From: "Andrea Vangor" <drav@...>

      Happy New Year to all, and may your ISP server thumb its electronic nose at
      any Y2K bugs.

      Because of intense withdrawal symptoms (my Family History Center has been
      closed all week) I just had to do a little data entry tonight. Now the
      Opina records are very interesting, because these Lutheran entries have many
      pencilled comments and underlines sprinkled throughout. In many cases, what
      looks like a date of death of the individual being baptised is scribbled in.
      sometimes there are other comments added in pencil or lightly inked in.

      Now one, a baptism record from 1840, adds the comments "kassa'n" under the
      child's name, followed by a + 1897, presumably the date of death, and the
      word "okan:" follows.

      I assume that these are Hungarian words or abbreviations. Does anyone have
      a clue what they might mean? The words do not appear on any lists that I
      have found. It did occur to me that the deaths noted in baptism records
      this way seem to date from the 1890's up to 1930's. Would these people
      perhaps be emigrants, who left the parish so that there were no death
      entries in the usual places? You would think that the people back home
      would want to keep track of such things, just out of habit...

      Andrea
    • sabinov@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
      Hi Andrea, What you are describing is a very common practice in the RCatholic registers I ve read for both Sabinov (from late 1600 s to 1895) and Zboro. I
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 1, 2000
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        Hi Andrea,

        What you are describing is a very common practice in the RCatholic
        registers I've read for both Sabinov (from late 1600's to 1895) and
        Zboro. I think it's probably pretty common in general, as it's also been
        that way in Lutheran registers I've read from Berlin.

        Mostly I've seen it for young children who died fairly soon after birth,
        where they would register the death there also (sometimes also noting it
        in the regular death register, sometimes not as I checked quite a few of
        them out when finding children in my line I did not know of who died
        young). However, I also have seen it for older people, but not as
        commonly.

        I've also seen confirmations and moving out of the village noted in the
        column for "observations". Also later marriages of an mother who had an
        illegitimate child.

        "kassa" is the word often used in that context, tho it is not in my
        Hungarian word book either. Could it be Kassa, isn't that the name for
        Kassau (spelling may be wrong)? I've seen that on the back of many
        photographs of my family, where the portrait studio was they used.

        "okan" is not in it , but "oka" is and it means "cause of".

        Happy 2000,

        Maura

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
        sabinov@...
        Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
        http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      • Judy (and Dr. Joe ) Quashnock
        Is there a hala l somewhere near the oka ? If so hala loka - means cause of death. Dr. Q ... From: Maura Petzolt To:
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 1, 2000
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          Is there a hala'l somewhere near the "oka"? If so hala'loka - means cause
          of death.

          Dr. "Q"



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Maura Petzolt" <sabinov@...>
          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@onelist.com>
          Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 11:46 AM
          Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Scribbles


          > From: sabinov@... (Maura Petzolt)
          >
          > Hi Andrea,
          >
          > What you are describing is a very common practice in the RCatholic
          > registers I've read for both Sabinov (from late 1600's to 1895) and
          > Zboro. I think it's probably pretty common in general, as it's also been
          > that way in Lutheran registers I've read from Berlin.
          >
          > Mostly I've seen it for young children who died fairly soon after birth,
          > where they would register the death there also (sometimes also noting it
          > in the regular death register, sometimes not as I checked quite a few of
          > them out when finding children in my line I did not know of who died
          > young). However, I also have seen it for older people, but not as
          > commonly.
          >
          > I've also seen confirmations and moving out of the village noted in the
          > column for "observations". Also later marriages of an mother who had an
          > illegitimate child.
          >
          > "kassa" is the word often used in that context, tho it is not in my
          > Hungarian word book either. Could it be Kassa, isn't that the name for
          > Kassau (spelling may be wrong)? I've seen that on the back of many
          > photographs of my family, where the portrait studio was they used.
          >
          > "okan" is not in it , but "oka" is and it means "cause of".
          >
          > Happy 2000,
          >
          > Maura
          >
          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          > Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
          > sabinov@...
          > Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
          > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm
          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          >
          > >
        • Andrea Vangor
          No, that word was not present, but the writer may have had his own sytem of shorthand. These scribbles were for the minister s use. Now if the word okan:
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 1, 2000
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            No, that word was not present, but the writer may have had his own sytem of
            shorthand. These scribbles were for the minister's use. Now if the word
            "okan:" appeared does that mean "cause" or "death" considering that it
            follows the date 1897?


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Judy (and Dr. Joe ) Quashnock <judyq@...>
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@onelist.com>
            Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 1:33 PM
            Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Scribbles


            > From: "Judy \(and Dr. Joe \) Quashnock" <judyq@...>
            >
            > Is there a hala'l somewhere near the "oka"? If so hala'loka - means cause
            > of death.
            >
            > Dr. "Q"
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Maura Petzolt" <sabinov@...>
            > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@onelist.com>
            > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 11:46 AM
            > Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Scribbles
            >
            >
            > > From: sabinov@... (Maura Petzolt)
            > >
            > > Hi Andrea,
            > >
            > > What you are describing is a very common practice in the RCatholic
            > > registers I've read for both Sabinov (from late 1600's to 1895) and
            > > Zboro. I think it's probably pretty common in general, as it's also been
            > > that way in Lutheran registers I've read from Berlin.
            > >
            > > Mostly I've seen it for young children who died fairly soon after birth,
            > > where they would register the death there also (sometimes also noting it
            > > in the regular death register, sometimes not as I checked quite a few of
            > > them out when finding children in my line I did not know of who died
            > > young). However, I also have seen it for older people, but not as
            > > commonly.
            > >
            > > I've also seen confirmations and moving out of the village noted in the
            > > column for "observations". Also later marriages of an mother who had an
            > > illegitimate child.
            > >
            > > "kassa" is the word often used in that context, tho it is not in my
            > > Hungarian word book either. Could it be Kassa, isn't that the name for
            > > Kassau (spelling may be wrong)? I've seen that on the back of many
            > > photographs of my family, where the portrait studio was they used.
            > >
            > > "okan" is not in it , but "oka" is and it means "cause of".
            > >
            > > Happy 2000,
            > >
            > > Maura
            > >
            > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            > > Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
            > > sabinov@...
            > > Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
            > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm
            > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            > >
            > > >
            >
            > >
          • Judy (and Dr. Joe ) Quashnock
            As Maura mentioned - oka - is cause . I m a little better at Latin, though. - - But it seems that you ve got another mystery. Dr. Q ... From: Andrea
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 1, 2000
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              As Maura mentioned - oka - is "cause". I'm a little better at Latin,
              though. - - But it seems that you've got another mystery.

              Dr. "Q"

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Andrea Vangor" <drav@...>

              >
              > No, that word was not present, but the writer may have had his own sytem
              of
              > shorthand. These scribbles were for the minister's use. Now if the word
              > "okan:" appeared does that mean "cause" or "death" considering that it
              > follows the date 1897?
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Judy (and Dr. Joe ) Quashnock <judyq@...>
              > >
              > > Is there a hala'l somewhere near the "oka"? If so hala'loka - means
              cause
              > > of death.
              > >
              > > Dr. "Q"
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Maura Petzolt" <sabinov@...>
              > > >
              > > > Hi Andrea,
              > > >
              > > > What you are describing is a very common practice in the RCatholic
              > > > registers I've read for both Sabinov (from late 1600's to 1895) and
              > > > Zboro. I think it's probably pretty common in general, as it's also
              been
              > > > that way in Lutheran registers I've read from Berlin.
              > > >
              > > > Mostly I've seen it for young children who died fairly soon after
              birth,
              > > > where they would register the death there also (sometimes also noting
              it
              > > > in the regular death register, sometimes not as I checked quite a few
              of
              > > > them out when finding children in my line I did not know of who died
              > > > young). However, I also have seen it for older people, but not as
              > > > commonly.
              > > >
              > > > I've also seen confirmations and moving out of the village noted in
              the
              > > > column for "observations". Also later marriages of an mother who had
              an
              > > > illegitimate child.
              > > >
              > > > "kassa" is the word often used in that context, tho it is not in my
              > > > Hungarian word book either. Could it be Kassa, isn't that the name for
              > > > Kassau (spelling may be wrong)? I've seen that on the back of many
              > > > photographs of my family, where the portrait studio was they used.
              > > >
              > > > "okan" is not in it , but "oka" is and it means "cause of".
              > > >
              > > > Happy 2000,
              > > >
              > > > Maura
              >
            • Andrea Vangor
              Thanks, Maura. Are you saying that kassa refers to the child of unwed parents? The word here is kassa n with an accent over the second a. I have not
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 1, 2000
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                Thanks, Maura. Are you saying that "kassa" refers to the child of unwed
                parents? The word here is "kassa'n" with an accent over the second a. I
                have not cross-checked with marriage records yet.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Maura Petzolt <sabinov@...>
                To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@onelist.com>
                Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 11:46 AM
                Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Scribbles


                > From: sabinov@... (Maura Petzolt)
                >
                > Hi Andrea,
                >
                > What you are describing is a very common practice in the RCatholic
                > registers I've read for both Sabinov (from late 1600's to 1895) and
                > Zboro. I think it's probably pretty common in general, as it's also been
                > that way in Lutheran registers I've read from Berlin.
                >
                > Mostly I've seen it for young children who died fairly soon after birth,
                > where they would register the death there also (sometimes also noting it
                > in the regular death register, sometimes not as I checked quite a few of
                > them out when finding children in my line I did not know of who died
                > young). However, I also have seen it for older people, but not as
                > commonly.
                >
                > I've also seen confirmations and moving out of the village noted in the
                > column for "observations". Also later marriages of an mother who had an
                > illegitimate child.
                >
                > "kassa" is the word often used in that context, tho it is not in my
                > Hungarian word book either. Could it be Kassa, isn't that the name for
                > Kassau (spelling may be wrong)? I've seen that on the back of many
                > photographs of my family, where the portrait studio was they used.
                >
                > "okan" is not in it , but "oka" is and it means "cause of".
                >
                > Happy 2000,
                >
                > Maura
                >
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                > Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                > sabinov@...
                > Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                >
                > >
              • sabinov@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
                No, I m saying kassa n could be Kassa, which is Kassau, which is now (I believe) Kosice. Could be the person died there and it was noted in the register as
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 3, 2000
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                  No, I'm saying "kassa'n" could be Kassa, which is Kassau, which is now
                  (I believe) Kosice.

                  Could be the person died there and it was noted in the register as they
                  were buried there in the village?

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                  sabinov@...
                  Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                  http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                • Andrea Vangor
                  Well, your guess is as good as mine, and probably a lot better! But it is not a capital K. Nonetheless, I think logically that there is no need to scribble in
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 3, 2000
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                    Well, your guess is as good as mine, and probably a lot better! But it is
                    not a capital K. Nonetheless, I think logically that there is no need to
                    scribble in information about people that is preseved in the same records,
                    so if this person died in Kassa it would make some sense. After all, the
                    city was a mere 5-10 miles away, and today there are a couple of dozen
                    people with my own surname there. I will bet that a lot of people drifted
                    off to the cities from the small towns and villages, especially renters,
                    after the abolition of serfdom in 1781. It certainly is the case that some
                    people just disappear from the records, decades before we can presume that
                    they immigrated to America.

                    Has anyone you know seen the records from Kos~ice? It might make sense to
                    search certain years...
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Maura Petzolt <sabinov@...>
                    To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@onelist.com>
                    Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 4:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Scribbles


                    > From: sabinov@... (Maura Petzolt)
                    >
                    > No, I'm saying "kassa'n" could be Kassa, which is Kassau, which is now
                    > (I believe) Kosice.
                    >
                    > Could be the person died there and it was noted in the register as they
                    > were buried there in the village?
                    >
                    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    > Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                    > sabinov@...
                    > Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                    > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm
                    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    >
                    > >
                  • sabinov@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
                    I don t know anyone off hand who s searched Kosice records, but that entire region seems to be well filmed, so I d check the FHC catalog under all 3 names.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 4, 2000
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                      I don't know anyone off hand who's searched Kosice records, but that
                      entire region seems to be well filmed, so I'd check the FHC catalog
                      under all 3 names. Heaven only knows how it's listed!

                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                      sabinov@...
                      Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                      http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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