Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Brezlow?

Expand Messages
  • Nick Holcz
    On the ship s manifest in EIDB is states that my relative Sidi Hirsch ( married name) was born in Brezlow can anyone tell me where that is. I have looked on
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 30, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      On the ship's manifest in EIDB is states that my relative Sidi Hirsch (
      married name) was born in Brezlow can anyone tell me where that is. I
      have looked on internet maps etc so maybe it was or is called something
      else now ?

      Nick
    • Vladimir Bohinc
      Dear Nick, It seems to me, that Sidi came from a town called Breslau then, and is Wroclaw now, in Poland. Then it was Germany. I just returned from there:-)
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 30, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Nick,
        It seems to me, that Sidi came from a town called Breslau then, and is
        Wroclaw now, in Poland. Then it was Germany. I just returned from there:-)
        Best regards,
        Vladimir
        Strange, but I could not lock on your Sidi on Eidb. What is her spelling
        there? (Look at the transcript of the original, not the original text.)

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Nick Holcz" <nickh@...>
        To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 3:42 PM
        Subject: [S-R] Brezlow?


        > On the ship's manifest in EIDB is states that my relative Sidi Hirsch (
        > married name) was born in Brezlow can anyone tell me where that is. I
        > have looked on internet maps etc so maybe it was or is called something
        > else now ?
        >
        > Nick
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.489 (20030819) __________
        >
        > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
        > http://www.eset.sk
        >
        >
      • Bill Tarkulich
        The name is just not spelled correctly - I checked the manifest. I can t find anything too close right now. This is an example of where more info is better
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 30, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          The name is just not spelled correctly - I checked the manifest. I
          can't find anything too close right now.
          This is an example of where more info is better than less info. First
          of all, knowing the date of the manifest is helpful. This manifest is
          post WW1. Documents were customarily written using contemporary (to the
          time) village names. Occassionally an old name slipped in.

          What language did the immigrant speak. Of course Hebrew, but did they
          speak Slovak? Czech? German? This can provide clues on where to look.

          Now be careful. Often times you can quickly recognize a Magyar
          (Hungarian) name due to the presence of the "Z" character. So I
          substituted a "S" and search that way.

          Here's the drill.
          I started by checking
          http://mapy.atlas.cz and
          http://mapy.atlas.sk for Czech and Slovak Republic matches. Even put
          in the first few characters. No match.

          I then checked http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm using
          the Daitch-Mortkoff sounds like system. Nothing really close.

          I then checked my Hungary place names book. There are some
          possibitlities, there were several that have the workd BREZO as the
          place name ending.BRESNO, Slovakia is a possibility.

          An interesting possibility is the Slovak name BREZOW, which the Magyar
          name is Nyirjes. It goes by the name BREZOV in Slovakia today.

          To corroborate, I would then use Steve Morse's 1-step tools
          http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/ellisshort.html to look for
          other potential family. Search on the village name and search on the
          surname. Look for others in the manifests who have the same surname and
          are from similarly (not identically) sounding/looking villages.




          ______________
          Bill Tarkulich




          -----Original Message-----
          From: Nick Holcz [mailto:nickh@...]
          Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 6:43 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Brezlow?


          On the ship's manifest in EIDB is states that my relative Sidi Hirsch (
          married name) was born in Brezlow can anyone tell me where that is. I
          have looked on internet maps etc so maybe it was or is called something
          else now ?

          Nick




          To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
          SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Nick Holcz
          ... Nick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 31, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            loAt 05:05 PM 30/08/2003 +0200, you wrote:
            >Dear Nick,
            >It seems to me, that Sidi came from a town called Breslau then, and is
            >Wroclaw now, in Poland. Then it was Germany. I just returned from there:-)
            >Best regards,
            >Vladimir
            >Strange, but I could not lock on your Sidi on Eidb. What is her spelling
            >there? (Look at the transcript of the original, not the original text.)



            >Thanks Vladimir and Bill,
            >On the manifest is has Sidi Hirsch arrived August 03, 1923 departure port
            >Cherbourg born in Brezlow Czechoslavakia. Judging by the fact my father
            >and uncle spoke Slovak I would think the whole family did. Maybe Brezow is
            >the best bet.

            Nick




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Vladimir Bohinc
            Dear Nick, I see now, you mean the only Sidi, who actually came from Vienna. I do have my second thougths here. - the country is Czechoslovakia - the language
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 31, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Nick,
              I see now, you mean the only Sidi, who actually came from Vienna.
              I do have my second thougths here.
              - the country is Czechoslovakia
              - the language spoken was corrected from possibly slovak to yiddish. I say
              possibly slovak, because I am not sure, whether the typed word slovak in her
              case is not in a connection with the Czecho word just above. Namely, if the
              person above her would have been speaking Cech, then it would be Czech
              there, not Czecho. Here I am not sure, whether she was born in Slovakia.
              - the word Brezlow; it was year 1923, so there was not much confusion with
              the former hungarian spellings any more. If you look on both maps, of Czech
              and Slovak republic, there is no such place today.
              What letters may have been changed and why? I am pretty sure, the
              combination BRE did not change.
              What about Z? This letter is often spelled as C here. So there is a chance,
              that the BREC combination could be correct.
              That makes now two possibilities:
              BREZ and
              BREC
              The letter L could not sneak in. This is very unlikely. It was either a L or
              T, which gives us following possibilities:
              BREZL, which lead us nowhere, and
              BRECL
              The letter O could have been O or A, giving us following combination;
              BRECLO, no place with this letter combination in either country
              BRECLA, leads me to the town of Breclav, which is in the south of Czech
              republic, not far from Vienna.
              Now, if you disregard all this, and take, that the correct spelling would
              start with Brez, elliminate the L and have OV at the end, then there are two
              possibilities in Slovakia;
              Brezov and
              Brezov Stal
              In addition to this, there are many places, that start with BREZ or BRES
              There is no BREZOV in Czech rep., but many places with BREZ etc.
              Eventually, this leaves you with three places to look for the Marriage of
              Sidi(!).
              BREZOV
              BREZOV STAL
              BRECLAV
              She was not born Hirsch.I checked the EIDB for other Hirsch persons. Some
              came from Breslau in Germany, but none from anything beginning with BREZ.
              So much for warming up.
              Regards,
              Vladimir


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Nick Holcz" <nickh@...>
              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 12:14 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Brezlow?


              >
              > loAt 05:05 PM 30/08/2003 +0200, you wrote:
              > >Dear Nick,
              > >It seems to me, that Sidi came from a town called Breslau then, and is
              > >Wroclaw now, in Poland. Then it was Germany. I just returned from
              there:-)
              > >Best regards,
              > >Vladimir
              > >Strange, but I could not lock on your Sidi on Eidb. What is her spelling
              > >there? (Look at the transcript of the original, not the original text.)
              >
              >
              >
              > >Thanks Vladimir and Bill,
              > >On the manifest is has Sidi Hirsch arrived August 03, 1923 departure port
              > >Cherbourg born in Brezlow Czechoslavakia. Judging by the fact my father
              > >and uncle spoke Slovak I would think the whole family did. Maybe Brezow
              is
              > >the best bet.
              >
              > Nick
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.489 (20030819) __________
              >
              > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
              > http://www.eset.sk
              >
              >
            • Nick Holcz
              ... Vladimir, she was my aunty a sister of my father so her maiden name was Holcz or Holz. I thought that Vienna was the place you could get papers to leave
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 31, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                At 07:22 PM 31/08/2003 +0200, you wrote:
                >Dear Nick,
                >I see now, you mean the only Sidi, who actually came from Vienna.
                >
                >Vladimir, thanks again.

                Vladimir, she was my aunty a sister of my father so her maiden name was
                Holcz or Holz. I thought that Vienna was the place you could get papers to
                leave Europe ( maybe that was later when communists ran everything) anyway
                it is all part of the puzzle. My father was born in Nove Mesto nv my uncle
                in Velke Polo so I was hoping for all of them to come from a not too large
                an area.

                Nick
              • Frank
                ... ahoj Nick, My theory of the location of Brezlow ? is different. In 1923, a Sidi Hirsch, age 28, married, Hebrew, emigrated to her husband s (Benjamin
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 1 7:54 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Nick Holcz <nickh@i...> wrote:
                  > At 07:22 PM 31/08/2003 +0200, you wrote:
                  > >Dear Nick,
                  > >I see now, you mean the only Sidi, who actually came from Vienna.
                  > >
                  > >Vladimir, thanks again.

                  ahoj Nick,

                  My theory of the location of Brezlow ? is different.

                  In 1923, a Sidi Hirsch, age 28, married, Hebrew, emigrated to
                  her husband's (Benjamin Hirsch) address : 416 E. 3rd Street NYC.
                  Her Last Residence was Wien (Vienna), Austria.
                  In Yiddish Sarah is Sore , so perhaps Sidi was named Sadie ?
                  Her birthplace was Brezlow ?, Czechoslovakia .
                  There was no country called Czechoslovakia until the WW I Hungarian
                  peace treaty in 1920.
                  In Upper Hungary (Slovakia) R.C. parish churches kept the Jewish
                  records.

                  In 1922, a Benjamin Hirsch, age 35, married, Polish, emigrated
                  to his brother's (Nathan Hirsch) address: 416 E. 3rd Street NYC.
                  His birthplace was Solatwin ?, Poland and Last Residence was also
                  Vienna, Austria.
                  Perhaps Slotwin located 30 miles distant from Warszawa (Warsaw)
                  Poland ?

                  Holcz is a Hungarian spelling.
                  Sidi was born abt. 1895.
                  If her maiden name was Holcz or Holz would expect your father would
                  have known if she had converted to the Jewish faith.
                  Very strange.


                  There are two Vel'ké Pole located in Slovakia, one in western
                  Slovakia and the other in eastern Slovakia.

                  Also a number of Nové Mesto in Slovakia.
                  Assume it was Vel'ké Pole (Sk) Pálosnagymezo" (H) located 72 miles
                  ENE
                  of Bratislava and Nové Mesto nad Vahom (Sk)
                  Vagyújhely (H) - a distance of 36 miles between these 2 places.

                  The Slovakia telephone directory lists a Holcová , i.e. surname Holc +
                  -ová (feminine gender) under Nové Mesto nad Vahom.


                  A Brezolupy is located 66 miles ENE of Bratislava and just south
                  of Bánovce nad Bebravou, Slovakia.
                  This is about 20 miles distant from Nové Mesto nad Vahom.

                  http://216.239.57.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:QI_Zw17V8AgJ:http://www.zmo
                  s.sk/3/obce/obce/542741.htm+Brezolu

                  The Jewish records for Brezolupy are listed under the R.C. church
                  (1700-1895) for Bánovce nad Bebravou, Slovakia.
                • Vladimir Bohinc
                  Dear Frank, I am sorry, but this is not true; Brezolupy Jewish records were kept in Banovce rabinate, never in RC parishes! Births 1841-1928, 1937 Marriages
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 1 12:37 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Frank,
                    I am sorry, but this is not true;
                    Brezolupy Jewish records were kept in Banovce rabinate, never in RC
                    parishes!
                    Births 1841-1928, 1937
                    Marriages 1841-1942
                    Deaths 1841-1895
                    I have never seen a Jewish record from 1700, and I have seen many. They all
                    start with around 1850, when the Jews were told to do so.
                    Sidi comes from Sidonia.
                    As to where this Hirsch family will be found; it is useless to speculate
                    about all possible and impossible locations. They were everywhere and were
                    migrating so much, that you can hardly trace them back the same way as the
                    slavic population.
                    Regards,
                    Vladimir


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Frank" <frankur@...>
                    To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 4:54 PM
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Brezlow?


                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Nick Holcz <nickh@i...> wrote:
                    > > At 07:22 PM 31/08/2003 +0200, you wrote:
                    > > >Dear Nick,
                    > > >I see now, you mean the only Sidi, who actually came from Vienna.
                    > > >
                    > > >Vladimir, thanks again.
                    >
                    > ahoj Nick,
                    >
                    > My theory of the location of Brezlow ? is different.
                    >
                    > In 1923, a Sidi Hirsch, age 28, married, Hebrew, emigrated to
                    > her husband's (Benjamin Hirsch) address : 416 E. 3rd Street NYC.
                    > Her Last Residence was Wien (Vienna), Austria.
                    > In Yiddish Sarah is Sore , so perhaps Sidi was named Sadie ?
                    > Her birthplace was Brezlow ?, Czechoslovakia .
                    > There was no country called Czechoslovakia until the WW I Hungarian
                    > peace treaty in 1920.
                    > In Upper Hungary (Slovakia) R.C. parish churches kept the Jewish
                    > records.
                    >
                    > In 1922, a Benjamin Hirsch, age 35, married, Polish, emigrated
                    > to his brother's (Nathan Hirsch) address: 416 E. 3rd Street NYC.
                    > His birthplace was Solatwin ?, Poland and Last Residence was also
                    > Vienna, Austria.
                    > Perhaps Slotwin located 30 miles distant from Warszawa (Warsaw)
                    > Poland ?
                    >
                    > Holcz is a Hungarian spelling.
                    > Sidi was born abt. 1895.
                    > If her maiden name was Holcz or Holz would expect your father would
                    > have known if she had converted to the Jewish faith.
                    > Very strange.
                    >
                    >
                    > There are two Vel'ké Pole located in Slovakia, one in western
                    > Slovakia and the other in eastern Slovakia.
                    >
                    > Also a number of Nové Mesto in Slovakia.
                    > Assume it was Vel'ké Pole (Sk) Pálosnagymezo" (H) located 72 miles
                    > ENE
                    > of Bratislava and Nové Mesto nad Vahom (Sk)
                    > Vagyújhely (H) - a distance of 36 miles between these 2 places.
                    >
                    > The Slovakia telephone directory lists a Holcová , i.e. surname Holc +
                    > -ová (feminine gender) under Nové Mesto nad Vahom.
                    >
                    >
                    > A Brezolupy is located 66 miles ENE of Bratislava and just south
                    > of Bánovce nad Bebravou, Slovakia.
                    > This is about 20 miles distant from Nové Mesto nad Vahom.
                    >
                    > http://216.239.57.104/search?hl=en&q=cache:QI_Zw17V8AgJ:http://www.zmo
                    > s.sk/3/obce/obce/542741.htm+Brezolu
                    >
                    > The Jewish records for Brezolupy are listed under the R.C. church
                    > (1700-1895) for Bánovce nad Bebravou, Slovakia.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.489 (20030819) __________
                    >
                    > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
                    > http://www.eset.sk
                    >
                    >
                  • Nick Holcz
                    ... She didn t convert to Judaism the family was Jewish , My father was born in Nove Mesto nad Vahom . I have a birth place of Velke Polo for my uncle and on
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 1 9:45 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      At 02:54 PM 1/09/2003 +0000, you wrote:
                      >ahoj Nick,
                      >
                      >My theory of the location of Brezlow ? is different.
                      >
                      >In 1923, a Sidi Hirsch, age 28, married, Hebrew, emigrated to
                      >her husband's (Benjamin Hirsch) address : 416 E. 3rd Street NYC.
                      >Her Last Residence was Wien (Vienna), Austria.
                      >In Yiddish Sarah is Sore , so perhaps Sidi was named Sadie ?
                      >Her birthplace was Brezlow ?, Czechoslovakia .
                      >There was no country called Czechoslovakia until the WW I Hungarian
                      >peace treaty in 1920.
                      >In Upper Hungary (Slovakia) R.C. parish churches kept the Jewish
                      >records.

                      She didn't convert to Judaism the family was Jewish , My father was born in
                      Nove Mesto nad Vahom . I have a birth place of Velke Polo for my uncle and
                      on his immigration papers ( to Australia) it says The village of Pole and
                      then Uherce , Topolcany . Does that help?

                      As you say there was no Czechoslovakia when any of my father's family was
                      born, but papers produced after 1920 say Czechoslovakia , my father told
                      me they were Slovak, there are relatives of my aunty's living in Nove Mesto
                      NV. I have got some limited information from them but like Oliver Twist I
                      want more.

                      I'll see if the FHC has films for Bánovce nad Bebravou.

                      Thanks for your help.
                      Nick
                    • cardarch@aol.com
                      In a message dated 9/2/03 12:45:18 AM, nickh@iinet.net.au writes: ahoj Nick, Just wondering, is ahoj pronounced ahoy ? That is the greeting
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 2 4:10 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        In a message dated 9/2/03 12:45:18 AM, nickh@... writes:

                        << >ahoj Nick, >>

                        Just wondering, is "ahoj" pronounced "ahoy"? That is the greeting Alexander
                        Graham Bell said the first time he picked up the first phone, and is also the
                        greeting Montgomery Burns on the Simpson's show uses when he picks up the
                        phone. Does it mean "hello?"
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.