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  • Jeanann Jameson
    hi i am jeanann and i m new to this list. i am looking for information about my great gradparents, froney stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 1, 2003
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      hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am looking
      for information about my great gradparents, froney
      stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
      spelled by how my mother said it) and any information
      about my grandfather andres rak. i have been told they
      are from austria, hungary chez., poland, yugoslavia.
      at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis island,
      ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of any
      of these people. some of the towns my mother has
      mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and hesse.
      if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe you can
      help or direct me in the right direction. thanks for
      letting me be part of your group. jeanann

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    • Paul Yurtinus
      Jeanann, Golly, it would be so much easier if you knew the Village name from which your ancestors came. There are people on this site that have access to maps
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 1, 2003
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        Jeanann,

        Golly, it would be so much easier if you knew the Village name from which your ancestors came.
        There are people on this site that have access to maps from old Austria-Hungary which could help.
        I'll check some of the records available - get back to the forum.

        Paul

        Jeanann Jameson <jjeanann2000@...> wrote:
        hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am looking
        for information about my great gradparents, froney
        stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
        spelled by how my mother said it) and any information
        about my grandfather andres rak. i have been told they
        are from austria, hungary chez., poland, yugoslavia.
        at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis island,
        ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of any
        of these people. some of the towns my mother has
        mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and hesse.
        if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe you can
        help or direct me in the right direction. thanks for
        letting me be part of your group. jeanann

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      • Jeanann Jameson
        hi not knowing the village is only one big problem i have. i don t no how to spell my grandmothers name i only no how my mother said yellenburger and i do no
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 1, 2003
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          hi not knowing the village is only one big problem i
          have. i don't no how to spell my grandmothers name i
          only no how my mother said yellenburger and i do no my
          great grandmother froney(?)spelling not sure but it
          means veronica her maiden name was stranc and she
          married a stephan yellenburger but agin i don't no how
          to spell it veronica may have come from hesse but i am
          not sure. thank-you jeanann
          --- Paul Yurtinus <elmerville2@...> wrote:
          > Jeanann,
          >
          > Golly, it would be so much easier if you knew the
          > Village name from which your ancestors came.
          > There are people on this site that have access to
          > maps from old Austria-Hungary which could help.
          > I'll check some of the records available - get back
          > to the forum.
          >
          > Paul
          >
          > Jeanann Jameson <jjeanann2000@...> wrote:
          > hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am
          > looking
          > for information about my great gradparents, froney
          > stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
          > spelled by how my mother said it) and any
          > information
          > about my grandfather andres rak. i have been told
          > they
          > are from austria, hungary chez., poland, yugoslavia.
          > at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis
          > island,
          > ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of any
          > of these people. some of the towns my mother has
          > mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and
          > hesse.
          > if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe you
          > can
          > help or direct me in the right direction. thanks for
          > letting me be part of your group. jeanann
          >
          > __________________________________
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        • Jeanann Jameson
          hi sorry to bother you again but my grandmother magdalena yellenburger(?) was married to a older man who was a soldier and he died in a war. she was born in
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 1, 2003
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            hi sorry to bother you again but my grandmother
            magdalena yellenburger(?) was married to a older man
            who was a soldier and he died in a war. she was born
            in 1883 or 1884 and her first husbond used to swim
            accross the river to get her watermellon he died in
            whatever war was going on. she might have been a teen
            ager at the time of her first marriage and i don't no
            that name either. all of this is why i'm having so
            much trouble finding out anything. the sabe river has
            been mentioned and the river is accross from macvanska
            does that help? jeanann
            --- Paul Yurtinus <elmerville2@...> wrote:
            > Jeanann,
            >
            > Golly, it would be so much easier if you knew the
            > Village name from which your ancestors came.
            > There are people on this site that have access to
            > maps from old Austria-Hungary which could help.
            > I'll check some of the records available - get back
            > to the forum.
            >
            > Paul
            >
            > Jeanann Jameson <jjeanann2000@...> wrote:
            > hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am
            > looking
            > for information about my great gradparents, froney
            > stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
            > spelled by how my mother said it) and any
            > information
            > about my grandfather andres rak. i have been told
            > they
            > are from austria, hungary chez., poland, yugoslavia.
            > at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis
            > island,
            > ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of any
            > of these people. some of the towns my mother has
            > mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and
            > hesse.
            > if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe you
            > can
            > help or direct me in the right direction. thanks for
            > letting me be part of your group. jeanann
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
            > design software
            > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or-
            > send blank email to
            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            > Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            >
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            > removed]
            >
            >


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          • Bill Tarkulich
            You will really need to establish your GPs place of birth if you want to make any progress. Some places you can find that in include: 1. Social Security
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 2, 2003
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              You will really need to establish your GPs place of birth if you want to
              make any progress.
              Some places you can find that in include:
              1. Social Security Application (if working 1936+) What year(s) did they
              die?
              2. Immigration records (you should petition the INS for their records -
              what approx. year did they immigrate?
              3. Church records in the US - marriage (were they married in the US?)
              birth records of their children (not on the certificates, but in the
              church record book)
              Have you done any of the above? You really should, because you need
              some solid evidence of their birthplace before you reach across the pond
              to start looking deeply. Hate to see you in the wrong country!
              I have found US census and death certificates to be generally un-helpful
              with regard to place of birth.

              It is helpful to estimate:
              - year of birth, marriage, death, immigration
              - do you have any sense of the ethnicity of each GP. It seems like the
              GF might be German and the GM be another?
              - initial destination upon arrival in America
              Given the wide range of countries being guessed at, it is productive to
              know: What language did they speak? What religion were they? More
              info posted is better than less info at this point.

              In using www.ellisisland.org have you utilized Steve Morse's One-step
              pages, which let you search by sounds-like names?
              http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/ Use the short form.


              Now, you have suggested the following town names:
              lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and hesse. You can use
              http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm to search for
              sounds-like names.
              Some possibilities include:
              LACARAK 4500 1934 N Serbia 47.1 miles WNW of Belgrade (there is an
              unspecified river nearby) This village was in Austria-Hungary until
              1918 and spelled the same way by the Hungarians.

              A shetetlseeker proximity search
              http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/locrad.htm yields:
              LACARAK 4500 1934 N Serbia 0.0 miles N
              PACARAK 4500 1934 V Serbia 0.0 miles N
              MACVANSKA MITROVICA 4458 1936 N Serbia 2.8 miles SE
              MALA MITROVICA 4458 1936 V Serbia 2.8 miles SE
              MITROVICA 4458 1936 V Serbia 2.8 miles SE
              SRPSKI MITROVICA 4458 1936 V Serbia 2.8 miles SE
              MITROVIC 4458 1937 V Serbia 3.4 miles SE
              MITROVITZA 4458 1937 V Serbia 3.4 miles SE
              MITROWITZ 4458 1937 V Serbia 3.4 miles SE

              I think you'll see that MACVANSKA and MITROWITZ are nearby. In fact,
              right across the river is a village named MACVANSKA MITROVICA. That may
              be an ringer for you. So you had the spelling a bit off on MITROWITZ
              but that's all part of the plan. Now remember, you can use Morse's
              1-step to search on specific village names:
              29 Rack,Andrija Lacarak 1906 27 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              675 Rak,Adam Lacarak, Croatia 1913 4 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              676 Rak,Anna Lacsarak, Hung 1907 22 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              677 Rak,Petar Lacarek, Slavonia, Hung. 1907 29 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              678 Rak,Suzana Lacarak, Croatia 1913 32 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              679 Rak,Terezia Lacsarak, Hung 1907 0 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              680

              In fact, there are 41 entries from LACARAK (not even considering the
              spelling variations). I would review them all for clues:
              1 Acimovic,Mijo Lacarak 1905 33 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              2 Adamovic,Lorka Lacarak, Hungary 1910 21 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              3 Balint,Ferencz Lacarak, Hungary 1911 45 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              4 Bogic,Stevab Lacarak, Hungary 1912 35 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              5 Celjuk,Janko Lacarak 1905 41 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              6 Fradl,Peter Lacarak, Austria 1909 35 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              7 Fraidl,Anton Lacarak, Hungary 1911 17 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              8 Fraidl,Peter Lacarak, Hungary 1911 36 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              9 Frandl,Josef Lacarak, Hungary 1912 32 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              10 Gjurkov,Simo Lacarak, Croatia 1912 21 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              11 Gjurkov,Vaso Lacarak, Croatia 1912 24 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              12 Hammer,Georg Lacarak, Austria 1909 30 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              13 Homer,Petar Lacarak, Hungary 1912 35 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              14 Hrujakovics,Rada Lacarak, Ungary or Hungary 1910 28 Passenger
              Record Text Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              15 Jankovic,Creja Lacarak, Hungary 1910 41 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              16 Kockar,Zivan Lacarak 1903 36 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              17 Krizsak,Mihaly Lacarak, Hungary 1911 46 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              18 Lazic,Slavko Lacarak, Hungary 1914 16 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              19 Milkovic,Roska Lacarak, Hungary 1913 32 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              20 Molnar,Juliana Lacarak, Hungary 1910 24 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              21 Molnar,Nucka Lacarak, Hungary 1910 14 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              22 Molnar,Sandor Lacarak, Hungary 1910 37 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              23 Muller,Matija Lacarak 1903 37 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              24 Nikolic,Milinko Lacarak, Hungary 1914 27 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              25 Obrovacki,Johan Lacarak, Ungary or Hungary 1910 27 Passenger
              Record Text Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              26 Petrovic,Nilola Lacarak 1905 31 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              27 Prokopovic,Andrya Lacarak, Croatia 1913 44 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              28 Prokopovic,Stefan Lacarak 1903 25 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              29 Rack,Andrija Lacarak 1906 27 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              30 Rak,Adam Lacarak, Croatia 1913 4 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              31 Rak,Suzana Lacarak, Croatia 1913 32 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              32 Smidt,Franc Lacarak, Hungary 1912 27 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              33 Stekovic,Stefan Lacarak, Hungary 1914 44 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              34 Sztakics,Nikodim Lacarak, Hung 1909 32 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              35 Teodorovic,Zivan Lacarak, Hungary 1910 25 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              36 Vitasovic,Bzanko Lacarak, Hungary 1910 25 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              37 Vlodisa...,Veselin Lacarak 1903 44 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              Lacsarak
              1 Antal,Szabo Lacsarak 1907 38 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              2 Babinszki,Andras Lacsarak 1907 28 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              3 Balazs,Zuzana Lacsarak 1907 25 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              4 Balint,Ferencz Lacsarak 1907 41 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              5 Bariatarovic,Milan Lacsarak, Austria 1907 41 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              6 Krizak,Mihaly Lacsarak 1907 44 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              7 Radofevic,Mifo Lacsarak, Austria 1907 38 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              8 Rak,Anna Lacsarak, Hung 1907 22 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              9 Rak,Terezia Lacsarak, Hung 1907 0 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              10 Rudja,Pragie Lacsarak 1906 46 Passenger Record Text Manifest
              Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              11 Trbovic,Jandrija Lacsarak, Austria 1907 42 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              12 Vladisavljevic,Dusan Lacsarak, Austria 1907 25 Passenger Record
              Text Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              13 Vugin,Krista Lacsarak, Austria 1907 18 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              14 Vugin,Slava Lacsarak, Austria 1907 21 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              15 Vuletris,Mikaly Lacsarak, Hungary 1909 22 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image
              16 Zidisin,Milovan Lacsarak, Hungary 1911 39 Passenger Record Text
              Manifest Scanned Manifest Ship Image


              Hesse is such a common sounding name that you may have to find it
              another way. That, combined with YELLENBERGER, both germanic sounding
              names, suggest this individual is from elsewhere.

              The above Shtetlseeker has links to Mapquest maps. I suggest you pop
              the names into Shtetlseeker and click on the maps and look at adjacent
              villages. Remember, Mapquest is a contemporary map, so old names may be
              missing. You can go to http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm
              for a list of all counties and excellent (but large) 1910 maps of each
              county in Hungary. It's up to you to figure out the correct county for
              Croatian, my expertise lies in Upper Hungary.

              You have ethnic names in the mix. magdalena and yellenburger are both
              German names. Of the countries you mentioned, the Czech Republic is
              where the majority of ethnic Germans resided until 1945. So this may be
              a stronger possibility.

              It would be of great help to locate the SABE river as this is a unique
              geographic identifier. In Serbia, there is a village along that river
              called SABAC. You're in the wrong forum to find experts in Croatia
              (Yugoslavia), but it's a start. Get out a Yugo map and see what you can
              find. I'll bet this is it.


              "froney stranc" - Froney sounds like a nick name.

              As a general note to all researchers, it's best to CAPITALIZE all your
              names and villages in correspondence, then entitle your email message
              subject with these names and locations.

              I'd also suggest you get over to a Yugo or Croat forum and post this
              info there. They can probably offer better pointers than I.

              Well, you should be off to a great start by now. Enough of these
              villages are close enough to each other that it is worth a look.

              Good Luck,
              ______________
              Bill Tarkulich




              -----Original Message-----
              From: Jeanann Jameson [mailto:jjeanann2000@...]
              Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 10:07 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] new


              hi sorry to bother you again but my grandmother
              magdalena yellenburger(?) was married to a older man
              who was a soldier and he died in a war. she was born
              in 1883 or 1884 and her first husbond used to swim
              accross the river to get her watermellon he died in
              whatever war was going on. she might have been a teen
              ager at the time of her first marriage and i don't no
              that name either. all of this is why i'm having so
              much trouble finding out anything. the sabe river has
              been mentioned and the river is accross from macvanska
              does that help? jeanann
              --- Paul Yurtinus <elmerville2@...> wrote:
              > Jeanann,
              >
              > Golly, it would be so much easier if you knew the
              > Village name from which your ancestors came.
              > There are people on this site that have access to
              > maps from old Austria-Hungary which could help.
              > I'll check some of the records available - get back
              > to the forum.
              >
              > Paul
              >
              > Jeanann Jameson <jjeanann2000@...> wrote:
              > hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am
              > looking
              > for information about my great gradparents, froney
              > stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
              > spelled by how my mother said it) and any
              > information
              > about my grandfather andres rak. i have been told
              > they
              > are from austria, hungary chez., poland, yugoslavia.
              > at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis
              > island,
              > ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of any
              > of these people. some of the towns my mother has
              > mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and
              > hesse.
              > if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe you
              > can
              > help or direct me in the right direction. thanks for
              > letting me be part of your group. jeanann
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
              > design software
              > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
              >
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              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
              > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
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              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
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              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >


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            • Frank
              ... jeanann In Hungarian, German, and Slavic languages the letter J is pron. Y. Jugoslavija = Yugoslavia Jellenburger ? looks like a German surname spelling.
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 2, 2003
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                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                > hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am looking
                > for information about my great gradparents, froney
                > stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
                > spelled by how my mother said it) and any information
                > about my grandfather andres rak. i have been told they
                > are from austria, hungary chez., poland, yugoslavia.
                > at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis island,
                > ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of any
                > of these people. some of the towns my mother has
                > mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and hesse.
                > if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe you can
                > help or direct me in the right direction. thanks for
                > letting me be part of your group. jeanann

                jeanann

                In Hungarian, German, and Slavic languages the letter J is pron. Y.
                Jugoslavija = Yugoslavia

                Jellenburger ? looks like a German surname spelling.
                Hesse is probably Hesse- a region located in SW Germany.
                Perhaps a Donauschwaben surname ?

                http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/ESE/dsslawon.html

                Lacarak is located 47 miles NNW of Beograd (Belgrade)
                Serbia.
                Macvanska Mitrovica is located 45 miles NNW of Belgrade.
                The Sava River is located close by.

                There was a war fought in former Yugoslavia in the 1990s between
                Croatia and Serbia.
                NATO and US forces bombed Serbia.

                How are you ? English

                Wie geht es Ihnen ? German

                Hogy Van ? Hungarian (Non-Slavic)

                Ako sa más^ ? Slovak

                Jak se máte ? Czech

                Jak sie masz ? Polish

                Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene (Roman)

                K A K C T E ? Serbian/Bulgarian/Macedonian (Cyrillic)
                (kahk steh)

                K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
                (k ah k d ye l a)

                listowner Croatia-L Mailing List
                http://rootsweb.com/~hrvwgw/mailing.htm

                v
                Frank Kurcina
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              • John M,
                ... Frank and Bill covered most of your questions. Based on your grandmothers age, her husband may have died in the Balkan wars 1912-1913 or WWI 1914-1918.
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 2, 2003
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                  At 10:06 PM 8/1/2003 -0700, you wrote:
                  >hi sorry to bother you again but my grandmother
                  >magdalena yellenburger(?) was married to a older man
                  >who was a soldier and he died in a war. she was born
                  >in 1883 or 1884

                  Frank and Bill covered most of your questions. Based on your grandmothers'
                  age, her husband may have died in the Balkan wars 1912-1913 or WWI 1914-1918.

                  John M.
                • Jeanann Jameson
                  hi i just wanted to say thank-you for this information. i will let you no what i find out.jeanann ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo!
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 2, 2003
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                    hi i just wanted to say thank-you for this
                    information. i will let you no what i find out.jeanann
                    --- Frank <frankur@...> wrote:
                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                    >
                    > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                    > > hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am
                    > looking
                    > > for information about my great gradparents, froney
                    > > stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
                    > > spelled by how my mother said it) and any
                    > information
                    > > about my grandfather andres rak. i have been told
                    > they
                    > > are from austria, hungary chez., poland,
                    > yugoslavia.
                    > > at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis
                    > island,
                    > > ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of
                    > any
                    > > of these people. some of the towns my mother has
                    > > mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and
                    > hesse.
                    > > if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe you
                    > can
                    > > help or direct me in the right direction. thanks
                    > for
                    > > letting me be part of your group. jeanann
                    >
                    > jeanann
                    >
                    > In Hungarian, German, and Slavic languages the
                    > letter J is pron. Y.
                    > Jugoslavija = Yugoslavia
                    >
                    > Jellenburger ? looks like a German surname spelling.
                    > Hesse is probably Hesse- a region located in SW
                    > Germany.
                    > Perhaps a Donauschwaben surname ?
                    >
                    > http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/ESE/dsslawon.html
                    >
                    > Lacarak is located 47 miles NNW of Beograd
                    > (Belgrade)
                    > Serbia.
                    > Macvanska Mitrovica is located 45 miles NNW of
                    > Belgrade.
                    > The Sava River is located close by.
                    >
                    > There was a war fought in former Yugoslavia in the
                    > 1990s between
                    > Croatia and Serbia.
                    > NATO and US forces bombed Serbia.
                    >
                    > How are you ? English
                    >
                    > Wie geht es Ihnen ? German
                    >
                    > Hogy Van ? Hungarian (Non-Slavic)
                    >
                    > Ako sa m�s^ ? Slovak
                    >
                    > Jak se m�te ? Czech
                    >
                    > Jak sie masz ? Polish
                    >
                    > Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene (Roman)
                    >
                    > K A K C T E ? Serbian/Bulgarian/Macedonian
                    > (Cyrillic)
                    > (kahk steh)
                    >
                    > K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
                    > (k ah k d ye l a)
                    >
                    > listowner Croatia-L Mailing List
                    > http://rootsweb.com/~hrvwgw/mailing.htm
                    >
                    > v
                    > Frank Kurcina
                    > > __________________________________
                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                    > design software
                    > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
                    >
                    >


                    __________________________________
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                  • Jeanann Jameson
                    Frank thanks for all the information i have some new directions to go. i went back to ellis island and i still can t find anything close to my grandmothers
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 2, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Frank thanks for all the information i have some new
                      directions to go. i went back to ellis island and i
                      still can't find anything close to my grandmothers
                      name but a close match for my grandfather (Rak) came
                      up i was going by dates of his birth anyhow it said he
                      came from Nostovicha i don't no where that is but that
                      name set some bell off i have heard it a few times
                      before several years ago but thats ok got some more
                      checking to do. you mentioned froney could be a nick
                      name what would veronica be in german? i believe she
                      is the one from hesse. thanks for your help. jeanann
                      --- Frank <frankur@...> wrote:
                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                      >
                      > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                      > > hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am
                      > looking
                      > > for information about my great gradparents, froney
                      > > stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
                      > > spelled by how my mother said it) and any
                      > information
                      > > about my grandfather andres rak. i have been told
                      > they
                      > > are from austria, hungary chez., poland,
                      > yugoslavia.
                      > > at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis
                      > island,
                      > > ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of
                      > any
                      > > of these people. some of the towns my mother has
                      > > mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and
                      > hesse.
                      > > if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe you
                      > can
                      > > help or direct me in the right direction. thanks
                      > for
                      > > letting me be part of your group. jeanann
                      >
                      > jeanann
                      >
                      > In Hungarian, German, and Slavic languages the
                      > letter J is pron. Y.
                      > Jugoslavija = Yugoslavia
                      >
                      > Jellenburger ? looks like a German surname spelling.
                      > Hesse is probably Hesse- a region located in SW
                      > Germany.
                      > Perhaps a Donauschwaben surname ?
                      >
                      > http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/ESE/dsslawon.html
                      >
                      > Lacarak is located 47 miles NNW of Beograd
                      > (Belgrade)
                      > Serbia.
                      > Macvanska Mitrovica is located 45 miles NNW of
                      > Belgrade.
                      > The Sava River is located close by.
                      >
                      > There was a war fought in former Yugoslavia in the
                      > 1990s between
                      > Croatia and Serbia.
                      > NATO and US forces bombed Serbia.
                      >
                      > How are you ? English
                      >
                      > Wie geht es Ihnen ? German
                      >
                      > Hogy Van ? Hungarian (Non-Slavic)
                      >
                      > Ako sa m�s^ ? Slovak
                      >
                      > Jak se m�te ? Czech
                      >
                      > Jak sie masz ? Polish
                      >
                      > Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene (Roman)
                      >
                      > K A K C T E ? Serbian/Bulgarian/Macedonian
                      > (Cyrillic)
                      > (kahk steh)
                      >
                      > K A K /| E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
                      > (k ah k d ye l a)
                      >
                      > listowner Croatia-L Mailing List
                      > http://rootsweb.com/~hrvwgw/mailing.htm
                      >
                      > v
                      > Frank Kurcina
                      > > __________________________________
                      > > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                      > design software
                      > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
                      >
                      >


                      __________________________________
                      Do you Yahoo!?
                      Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
                      http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
                    • Jeanann Jameson
                      hi i just talked to my older brother he has been checking out stuff also. he says my grandfather Andras RAk is from Lacarak,Hungary and my grandmother is from
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 3, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        hi i just talked to my older brother he has been
                        checking out stuff also. he says my grandfather Andras
                        RAk is from Lacarak,Hungary and my grandmother is from
                        Mitrovica Austria and they were only a few miles
                        apart. i have another question. does anyone no what
                        the name for Veronica is German, Hungarian, Slovakian
                        whatever. anyhow you have been a great help i do want
                        to thank all of you. jeanann
                        --- Paul Yurtinus <elmerville2@...> wrote:
                        > Jeanann,
                        >
                        > Golly, it would be so much easier if you knew the
                        > Village name from which your ancestors came.
                        > There are people on this site that have access to
                        > maps from old Austria-Hungary which could help.
                        > I'll check some of the records available - get back
                        > to the forum.
                        >
                        > Paul
                        >
                        > Jeanann Jameson <jjeanann2000@...> wrote:
                        > hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am
                        > looking
                        > for information about my great gradparents, froney
                        > stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
                        > spelled by how my mother said it) and any
                        > information
                        > about my grandfather andres rak. i have been told
                        > they
                        > are from austria, hungary chez., poland, yugoslavia.
                        > at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis
                        > island,
                        > ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of any
                        > of these people. some of the towns my mother has
                        > mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and
                        > hesse.
                        > if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe you
                        > can
                        > help or direct me in the right direction. thanks for
                        > letting me be part of your group. jeanann
                        >
                        > __________________________________
                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                        > design software
                        > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or-
                        > send blank email to
                        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                        > Terms of Service.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                        > design software
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > removed]
                        >
                        >


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                      • John M,
                        ... ENGLISH Czech. French German Hungarian Italian Polish Slovakian Russian Veronica Veronika Berenice Veronike .
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 3, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          At 08:34 PM 8/3/2003 -0700, you wrote:
                          >hi i just talked to my older brother he has been
                          >checking out stuff also. he says my grandfather Andras
                          >RAk is from Lacarak,Hungary and my grandmother is from
                          >Mitrovica Austria and they were only a few miles
                          >apart. i have another question. does anyone no what
                          >the name for Veronica is German, Hungarian, Slovakian
                          >whatever. anyhow you have been a great help i do want
                          >to thank all of you. jeanann

                          ENGLISH Czech. French German Hungarian Italian Polish
                          Slovakian Russian
                          Veronica Veronika Berenice Veronike . .
                          Nika Verona .
                          Berenice Veronique
                          Wera Veronika
                          Bernice
                          Weronika Veronka

                          John M
                        • Vladimir Bohinc
                          German short for Veronica is Vroni , read Frony. Vladimir ... From: Jeanann Jameson To: Sent: Monday,
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 3, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            German short for Veronica is Vroni , read Frony.
                            Vladimir

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Jeanann Jameson" <jjeanann2000@...>
                            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 5:34 AM
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] new


                            > hi i just talked to my older brother he has been
                            > checking out stuff also. he says my grandfather Andras
                            > RAk is from Lacarak,Hungary and my grandmother is from
                            > Mitrovica Austria and they were only a few miles
                            > apart. i have another question. does anyone no what
                            > the name for Veronica is German, Hungarian, Slovakian
                            > whatever. anyhow you have been a great help i do want
                            > to thank all of you. jeanann
                            > --- Paul Yurtinus <elmerville2@...> wrote:
                            > > Jeanann,
                            > >
                            > > Golly, it would be so much easier if you knew the
                            > > Village name from which your ancestors came.
                            > > There are people on this site that have access to
                            > > maps from old Austria-Hungary which could help.
                            > > I'll check some of the records available - get back
                            > > to the forum.
                            > >
                            > > Paul
                            > >
                            > > Jeanann Jameson <jjeanann2000@...> wrote:
                            > > hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am
                            > > looking
                            > > for information about my great gradparents, froney
                            > > stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
                            > > spelled by how my mother said it) and any
                            > > information
                            > > about my grandfather andres rak. i have been told
                            > > they
                            > > are from austria, hungary chez., poland, yugoslavia.
                            > > at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis
                            > > island,
                            > > ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of any
                            > > of these people. some of the towns my mother has
                            > > mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and
                            > > hesse.
                            > > if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe you
                            > > can
                            > > help or direct me in the right direction. thanks for
                            > > letting me be part of your group. jeanann
                            > >
                            > > __________________________________
                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                            > > design software
                            > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                            > >
                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                            > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or-
                            > > send blank email to
                            > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > >
                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                            > > Terms of Service.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ---------------------------------
                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                            > > design software
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > > removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________
                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
                            > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
                            >
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Frank
                            ... As Bill Tarkulich wrote Lacarak and Macvanska Mitrovica are located in Serbia not Slovakia. John M described various versions of first name Veronica. Vroni
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 4, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                              <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                              > hi i just talked to my older brother he has been
                              > checking out stuff also. he says my grandfather Andras
                              > RAk is from Lacarak,Hungary and my grandmother is from
                              > Mitrovica Austria and they were only a few miles
                              > apart. i have another question. does anyone no what
                              > the name for Veronica is German, Hungarian, Slovakian
                              > whatever. anyhow you have been a great help i do want
                              > to thank all of you. jeanann
                              > --- Paul Yurtinus <elmerville2@y...> wrote:

                              As Bill Tarkulich wrote Lacarak and Macvanska Mitrovica are located in
                              Serbia not Slovakia.

                              John M described various versions of first name Veronica.
                              Vroni (Froney) is also a German diminutive form of Veronica/Veronika
                              which was Jeanann's ancestor's name.

                              Andrew (English)
                              András (Hungarian)
                              Andreas (German)
                              Andrej/Ondrej (Slovak)
                              Andrej (Czech, Slovene)
                              Andrija (Croatian/Serbian)

                              Frank K

                              > > Jeanann,
                              > >
                              > > Golly, it would be so much easier if you knew the
                              > > Village name from which your ancestors came.
                              > > There are people on this site that have access to
                              > > maps from old Austria-Hungary which could help.
                              > > I'll check some of the records available - get back
                              > > to the forum.
                              > >
                              > > Paul
                              > >
                              > > Jeanann Jameson <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                              > > hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am
                              > > looking
                              > > for information about my great gradparents, froney
                              > > stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
                              > > spelled by how my mother said it) and any
                              > > information
                              > > about my grandfather andres rak. i have been told
                              > > they
                              > > are from austria, hungary chez., poland, yugoslavia.
                              > > at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis
                              > > island,
                              > > ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of any
                              > > of these people. some of the towns my mother has
                              > > mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and
                              > > hesse.
                              > > if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe you
                              > > can
                              > > help or direct me in the right direction. thanks for
                              > > letting me be part of your group. jeanann
                              > >
                              > > __________________________________
                              > > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                              > > design software
                              > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                              > >
                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                              > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or-
                              > > send blank email to
                              > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                              > > Terms of Service.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ---------------------------------
                              > > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                              > > design software
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > > removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > __________________________________
                              > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
                              > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
                            • Jeanann Jameson
                              hi just wanted to say thank-you. jeanann ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 4, 2003
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                                hi just wanted to say thank-you. jeanann
                                --- Frank <frankur@...> wrote:
                                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                                >
                                > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                                > > hi i just talked to my older brother he has been
                                > > checking out stuff also. he says my grandfather
                                > Andras
                                > > RAk is from Lacarak,Hungary and my grandmother is
                                > from
                                > > Mitrovica Austria and they were only a few miles
                                > > apart. i have another question. does anyone no
                                > what
                                > > the name for Veronica is German, Hungarian,
                                > Slovakian
                                > > whatever. anyhow you have been a great help i do
                                > want
                                > > to thank all of you. jeanann
                                > > --- Paul Yurtinus <elmerville2@y...> wrote:
                                >
                                > As Bill Tarkulich wrote Lacarak and Macvanska
                                > Mitrovica are located in
                                > Serbia not Slovakia.
                                >
                                > John M described various versions of first name
                                > Veronica.
                                > Vroni (Froney) is also a German diminutive form of
                                > Veronica/Veronika
                                > which was Jeanann's ancestor's name.
                                >
                                > Andrew (English)
                                > Andr�s (Hungarian)
                                > Andreas (German)
                                > Andrej/Ondrej (Slovak)
                                > Andrej (Czech, Slovene)
                                > Andrija (Croatian/Serbian)
                                >
                                > Frank K
                                >
                                > > > Jeanann,
                                > > >
                                > > > Golly, it would be so much easier if you knew
                                > the
                                > > > Village name from which your ancestors came.
                                > > > There are people on this site that have access
                                > to
                                > > > maps from old Austria-Hungary which could help.
                                > > > I'll check some of the records available - get
                                > back
                                > > > to the forum.
                                > > >
                                > > > Paul
                                > > >
                                > > > Jeanann Jameson <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                                > > > hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am
                                > > > looking
                                > > > for information about my great gradparents,
                                > froney
                                > > > stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
                                > > > spelled by how my mother said it) and any
                                > > > information
                                > > > about my grandfather andres rak. i have been
                                > told
                                > > > they
                                > > > are from austria, hungary chez., poland,
                                > yugoslavia.
                                > > > at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis
                                > > > island,
                                > > > ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of
                                > any
                                > > > of these people. some of the towns my mother has
                                > > > mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and
                                > > > hesse.
                                > > > if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe
                                > you
                                > > > can
                                > > > help or direct me in the right direction. thanks
                                > for
                                > > > letting me be part of your group. jeanann
                                > > >
                                > > > __________________________________
                                > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                                > > > design software
                                > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
                                > > >
                                > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                > > >
                                > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                                > -or-
                                > > > send blank email to
                                > > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > > >
                                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                                > Yahoo!
                                > > > Terms of Service.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ---------------------------------
                                > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                                > > > design software
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > > > removed]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > __________________________________
                                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                                > design software
                                > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
                                >
                                >


                                __________________________________
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                              • Jeanann Jameson
                                thank-you all of you have been alot of help jeanann ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 4, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  thank-you all of you have been alot of help jeanann
                                  --- Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> wrote:
                                  > German short for Veronica is Vroni , read Frony.
                                  > Vladimir
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Jeanann Jameson" <jjeanann2000@...>
                                  > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 5:34 AM
                                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] new
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > hi i just talked to my older brother he has been
                                  > > checking out stuff also. he says my grandfather
                                  > Andras
                                  > > RAk is from Lacarak,Hungary and my grandmother is
                                  > from
                                  > > Mitrovica Austria and they were only a few miles
                                  > > apart. i have another question. does anyone no
                                  > what
                                  > > the name for Veronica is German, Hungarian,
                                  > Slovakian
                                  > > whatever. anyhow you have been a great help i do
                                  > want
                                  > > to thank all of you. jeanann
                                  > > --- Paul Yurtinus <elmerville2@...> wrote:
                                  > > > Jeanann,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Golly, it would be so much easier if you knew
                                  > the
                                  > > > Village name from which your ancestors came.
                                  > > > There are people on this site that have access
                                  > to
                                  > > > maps from old Austria-Hungary which could help.
                                  > > > I'll check some of the records available - get
                                  > back
                                  > > > to the forum.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Paul
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Jeanann Jameson <jjeanann2000@...> wrote:
                                  > > > hi i am jeanann and i'm new to this list. i am
                                  > > > looking
                                  > > > for information about my great gradparents,
                                  > froney
                                  > > > stranc married to stephan yellenburger(last name
                                  > > > spelled by how my mother said it) and any
                                  > > > information
                                  > > > about my grandfather andres rak. i have been
                                  > told
                                  > > > they
                                  > > > are from austria, hungary chez., poland,
                                  > yugoslavia.
                                  > > > at this point i don't no. i have checked ellis
                                  > > > island,
                                  > > > ancestry.com and genealogy there is no record of
                                  > any
                                  > > > of these people. some of the towns my mother has
                                  > > > mentiond are lacarak,mikitovich,macvanska, and
                                  > > > hesse.
                                  > > > if anyone no's of these people or towns maybe
                                  > you
                                  > > > can
                                  > > > help or direct me in the right direction. thanks
                                  > for
                                  > > > letting me be part of your group. jeanann
                                  > > >
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                                • Jeanann Jameson
                                  thank-ou john. jeanann ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 4, 2003
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                                    thank-ou john. jeanann
                                    --- "John M," <jmatsko4@...> wrote:
                                    > At 08:34 PM 8/3/2003 -0700, you wrote:
                                    > >hi i just talked to my older brother he has been
                                    > >checking out stuff also. he says my grandfather
                                    > Andras
                                    > >RAk is from Lacarak,Hungary and my grandmother is
                                    > from
                                    > >Mitrovica Austria and they were only a few miles
                                    > >apart. i have another question. does anyone no what
                                    > >the name for Veronica is German, Hungarian,
                                    > Slovakian
                                    > >whatever. anyhow you have been a great help i do
                                    > want
                                    > >to thank all of you. jeanann
                                    >
                                    > ENGLISH Czech. French German
                                    > Hungarian Italian Polish
                                    > Slovakian Russian
                                    > Veronica Veronika Berenice Veronike
                                    > . .
                                    > Nika Verona .
                                    > Berenice Veronique
                                    > Wera Veronika
                                    > Bernice
                                    > Weronika Veronka
                                    >
                                    > John M
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


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